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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
I see the JVC being superior in every way
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You See... meaning it's your opinion, but what are you basing it on....what experience do you have with any CRT in comparison, not to mention anything I've put my work in.
You seeing or having a perspective on this, can only be confirmed if you own a special Crystal Ball.
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And with your statements about the VW1100 you clearly show you donīt know what you are talking about.
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Really!!!
So owning a 4K projector, when 4K material doesn't exist, makes you an expert, and makes me an idiot because I think owning a very costly technology that you can't enjoy it's full benefits makes no sense to me....and for the most part, it seems that everyone thinks 4K is a long ways from happening. |
I have seen alot of native 4K material on the VW1000/1100 and In the US Sony has a 4K download service with over 140 movies, The VW1000/1100 has alot of other benefits than the 4K resolution, but I donīt think you know what they are.
4K is not a long vay from happening, if you are updated 4K blu-ray will be released late this year or maybe early next year and the VW1100 is ready for it. It can show real 4K 24hz at 10-12 bit 4:4:4 and P3 (DCI) colorspace. So it is not a bad projector to buy used in 2015. 
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | The VW1000/1100 has alot of other benefits than the 4K resolution, but I donīt think you know what they are.
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No, I don't think you understand what they are. And for sure, you don't understand that up-scaling 1080P to 4K would diminish any True image benefits.
Do you really think if you scaled 720P to 1080P the image would be High Performance HD?
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | In the US Sony has a 4K download service with over 140 movies |
That may have been their justification for selling it, but how much sense would it make if you could only use what Sony has to offer in movies.
Nobody else allows you access to their 4K material.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | In the US Sony has a 4K download service with over 140 movies |
That may have been their justification for selling it, but how much sense would it make if you could only use what Sony has to offer in movies.
Nobody else allows you access to their 4K material. |
Not much 4K correct hopefully soon.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
If you look at the black tires and black parts in the Cars picture I posted you can clearly see the blacks is better than Mikes CRT |
almost any digital would make what you described with the tires look black. But the real test isn't that kind of black, or that the tire looks really black. The test is being able to see the tire as being black and at the same time see the detail in the tires black, or be able to almost make out the material (rubber).
So in a fair comparison to what my projector will do, you need a dark setting where there are various ranges of black, and be able to see the detail in the actual black. while at the same time, be able to visibly see all and everything dark in the image and also make out or be able to see the distinct texture.
Here work with these from Apocalypto... and I want you to just imagine what it may look like on my screen.
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Do not have that old movie, getting it now.
But I think you underestimating the JVC black.
Last weekend I saw a JVCx700 that was calibrated but the black level and everything else looked crap.
After correct settings a totally new world. Shadow detail better than any crt fact and black down to zero about the same, but I don't know this because I have not seen 909, cine 9 side by side. And trust me I LOVE the absolute black.
That guy had a 909 before, do you think he would take the 909 down if it wasn't better?.
Same also with another guy I know had done moding form Greg Eisemann and payed the cash for over 2 JVC X500.
909 down after comparing. His pick, not any other. But requiring correct adjustments. And calibrating.
They do that because they are stone heads and are clueless right?.
The pictures of Apocalypto look good on my iphone.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | The VW1000/1100 has alot of other benefits than the 4K resolution, but I donīt think you know what they are.
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No, I don't think you understand what they are. And for sure, you don't understand that up-scaling 1080P to 4K would diminish any True image benefits.
Do you really think if you scaled 720P to 1080P the image would be High Performance HD? |
We are not only talking upscaling here, but since that is the only thing you focus on I will enlighten you.
A clean uscaling from 1080p to 4K will make the picture softer (and with artifacts) than the original, but Sony has an algorythm called Reality Creation that works together with the 4K upscaling and this makes the upscaled picture as close to 4K as possible. I can not tell you the facts behind this as it is a Sony secret and I donīt know everything behind it. But as I have told you before if you upscale from 1080p to 3840x2160 it is an easy and clean upscaling but softer than the original, with RC it is sharper)) that is not hard to do and the Sony does this clean and without visible artifacts even with testpatterns. The upscaling to 4096x2160 is more difficult and here you can see some artifacts on testpatterns, but not with actual moviecontent. If you want clean artifact free testpatterns and have a 16x9 screen you use the 1080p to 3840x2160 upscaling with reality creation. If you can acceps some artifacts with testpatterns and have a 2.35:1 screen you can uset the 4096x2160 (this gives you a little more brightness) upscaling with reality creation, but you can also use the normal settings with 3840x2160.
The VW1100 has other features that makes it a very very food projector. It has one of the highest quality lenses of any digital, it has quite high on/off contrast (up to 20000:1) and together with a good DI it works very vell. It also has the techs highest ansi contrast at over 600:1 and that is in high end DLP land+++
But to you it is only a sh*tty 4k upsaling machine. It actually only have one weak side (of corse more than one, but this is the weakest) and that is not so deep blacklevel as a CRT of latest JVC, but as soon as there is a little light coming it has a very high intrascene contrast and very very good picture. But I know you donīt think that and never will and I donīt think you have ever seen a VW1100 and never will. For a CRT lover who only likes the 0 IRE and very very low APL scenes the VW1100 is no good, but for a person who fancy high end picturequality it is a very nice chiose. Not everyone only fancys the low end capabilities, if everyone did DLPīs would not be on the market. The VW1100 has much better low end capabilities than any high end 3 chip DLP, and I know this as I have seen a few including the Sim2 Lumis 3DS and Superlumis. And they are very good machines, but they have poor on/off contrast and poor low end capabilities. But they can light up very big screens and have another market than LCOS machines due to the very high brightness capabilities.
I fancy both the low end and bright end and that is why I own a JVC now, but it can not compete with the Sony from medium bright to bright material, and it does not have the same brightness. In my setup the JVC has enough light, but not for the ones with really big screens, I only have a 10m wide (about 10feet) 2.35:1 screen with 1.0 gain. So there is no perfect tech on the projector side and there is no perfect projector on the market, but there is things going on with lasers and HDR that makes a person interested in digital technology see a very intersting future ahead. And if you guys only fancy CRT you will not take part in it.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: |
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And Mike I am still waiting for you to enlighten me on what your CRT is better on than my JVC. And please use these picures as a starting point. 
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
I did announce I wold post screenshots of my X500 and I only avoided to answer just to piss you off, but if you read my post earlier I clearly announced I would post pictures of the X500 as I have sold my VW1100 |
I think it was a good idea to sell that VW1000. Too bad, the person that bought it, does not know that it was a terrible idea to design an almost native rate 4K digital projector, that scales the image UP almost four times from 1080P native.
Yes, it took some real geniuses to purchase 4K projectors when there is no active 4K source, and then without understanding anything about what they owned, mention it on this forum and Preach, It's Better than CRT.....ROTF..LOL
| Quote: | | You have not showed me anything that has impressed me and my pea gun can be really powerful with the right ammunition... |
It's a combination of you not knowing what to look for and not having a reference on hand, and that's why you and your side kick have been talking about "sharpness" for the past few days. We've already gave you the sharpness edge... |
Please let me in on that """It's a combination of you not knowing what to look for and not having a reference on hand"""
where and what I should look fore in your pictures, because as I see it its total picture and sorry to say SD vs HD
Sharpness is only 1 thing. WHERE AND WHAT SHALL I LOCK FOR AND AFTER, THAT CAN MAKE THIS PICTURE BETTER?
LOL
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | And Mike I am still waiting for you to enlighten me on what your CRT is better on than my JVC. And please use these picures as a starting point. |
Ah, I'm glad you posted the two in comparison. I knew if I posted a cartoon, it would compel you to post a comparison picture from your projector (the one you tried your best to not use in screenshots). And after I got you to post a shot to prove that your projector produced the better image, you'd boast that your JVC has the best image....thank you.. 
You see, almost ANY digital projector would do better with that (or any) cartoon shot than a CRT projector. But that's something everybody already knows. Now, look back over your comments in this thread and read what you said about screenshots, but now you're posting two together to prove how much better your JVC is to my CRT..
But now that you're using your JVC and willing to use it for screenshots. Let's do a few comparisons using say, film based natural looking stuff, like human flesh and nature scenes. We'll let someone else capture and post the two shots. that way we'll avoid the possibility of either you or I touching up the images.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | The VW1000/1100 has alot of other benefits than the 4K resolution, but I donīt think you know what they are.
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No, I don't think you understand what they are. And for sure, you don't understand that up-scaling 1080P to 4K would diminish any True image benefits.
Do you really think if you scaled 720P to 1080P the image would be High Performance HD? |
We are not only talking upscaling here, but since that is the only thing you focus on I will enlighten you.
A clean uscaling from 1080p to 4K will make the picture softer (and with artifacts) than the original, but Sony has an algorythm called Reality Creation that works together with the 4K upscaling and this makes the upscaled picture as close to 4K as possible. I can not tell you the facts behind this as it is a Sony secret and I donīt know everything behind it. But as I have told you before if you upscale from 1080p to 3840x2160 it is an easy and clean upscaling but softer than the original, with RC it is sharper)) that is not hard to do and the Sony does this clean and without visible artifacts even with testpatterns. The upscaling to 4096x2160 is more difficult and here you can see some artifacts on testpatterns, but not with actual moviecontent. If you want clean artifact free testpatterns and have a 16x9 screen you use the 1080p to 3840x2160 upscaling with reality creation. If you can acceps some artifacts with testpatterns and have a 2.35:1 screen you can uset the 4096x2160 (this gives you a little more brightness) upscaling with reality creation, but you can also use the normal settings with 3840x2160.
The VW1100 has other features that makes it a very very food projector. It has one of the highest quality lenses of any digital, it has quite high on/off contrast (up to 20000:1) and together with a good DI it works very vell. It also has the techs highest ansi contrast at over 600:1 and that is in high end DLP land+++
But to you it is only a sh*tty 4k upsaling machine. It actually only have one weak side (of corse more than one, but this is the weakest) and that is not so deep blacklevel as a CRT of latest JVC, but as soon as there is a little light coming it has a very high intrascene contrast and very very good picture. But I know you donīt think that and never will and I donīt think you have ever seen a VW1100 and never will. For a CRT lover who only likes the 0 IRE and very very low APL scenes the VW1100 is no good, but for a person who fancy high end picturequality it is a very nice chiose. Not everyone only fancys the low end capabilities, if everyone did DLPīs would not be on the market. The VW1100 has much better low end capabilities than any high end 3 chip DLP, and I know this as I have seen a few including the Sim2 Lumis 3DS and Superlumis. And they are very good machines, but they have poor on/off contrast and poor low end capabilities. But they can light up very big screens and have another market than LCOS machines due to the very high brightness capabilities.
I fancy both the low end and bright end and that is why I own a JVC now, but it can not compete with the Sony from medium bright to bright material, and it does not have the same brightness. In my setup the JVC has enough light, but not for the ones with really big screens, I only have a 10m wide (about 10feet) 2.35:1 screen with 1.0 gain. So there is no perfect tech on the projector side and there is no perfect projector on the market, but there is things going on with lasers and HDR that makes a person interested in digital technology see a very intersting future ahead. And if you guys only fancy CRT you will not take part in it. |
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah Blah. Bottom line, if you scale up Native HD content, you have diminished it's native qualities. Scaling is good for Graphics and computers, and is only good when the scaling is slight or minor, as to better fit the image to the screen. But to scale almost four times the original, you taking a native rate image and trust a $100.00 built in scaling chip to map that image out over an four times the size pixel area. Now do I need to tell you that you not only introduce distortions in that process, but you also loose in color depth. I could really go on here, but I think I've already giving you more than you can chew right now so, I'll stop here.
HD is intended to be Native Rate, with the exception being Blending and other slight processing to fit the screen. Now, the good thing about native rate is that it's better to process down than up. Up scaling is the monster that eats the image quality. You'll see what I mean when 4K source comes out, and on whatever device that spits out 4K will most likely have an 1080P out as well. That 1080P out is what I'm also waiting for for me CRT. The same would go with digitals. 4K is going to look really good on our displays (both digital and CRT).
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | And Mike I am still waiting for you to enlighten me on what your CRT is better on than my JVC. And please use these picures as a starting point. |
Ah, I'm glad you posted the two in comparison. I knew if I posted a cartoon, it would compel you to post a comparison picture from your projector (the one you tried your best to not use in screenshots). And after I got you to post a shot to prove that your projector produced the better image, you'd boast that your JVC has the best image....thank you..
You see, almost ANY digital projector would do better with that (or any) cartoon shot than a CRT projector. But that's something everybody already knows. Now, look back over your comments in this thread and read what you said about screenshots, but now you're posting two together to prove how much better your JVC is to my CRT..
But now that you're using your JVC and willing to use it for screenshots. Let's do a few comparisons using say, film based natural looking stuff, like human flesh and nature scenes. We'll let someone else capture and post the two shots. that way we'll avoid the possibility of either you or I touching up the images. |
We do not need to touch the image.
Gladly do this when I have the time or Andreas will.
Will be the same there.
Because we don't know where to look.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | The VW1000/1100 has alot of other benefits than the 4K resolution, but I donīt think you know what they are.
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No, I don't think you understand what they are. And for sure, you don't understand that up-scaling 1080P to 4K would diminish any True image benefits.
Do you really think if you scaled 720P to 1080P the image would be High Performance HD? |
We are not only talking upscaling here, but since that is the only thing you focus on I will enlighten you.
A clean uscaling from 1080p to 4K will make the picture softer (and with artifacts) than the original, but Sony has an algorythm called Reality Creation that works together with the 4K upscaling and this makes the upscaled picture as close to 4K as possible. I can not tell you the facts behind this as it is a Sony secret and I donīt know everything behind it. But as I have told you before if you upscale from 1080p to 3840x2160 it is an easy and clean upscaling but softer than the original, with RC it is sharper)) that is not hard to do and the Sony does this clean and without visible artifacts even with testpatterns. The upscaling to 4096x2160 is more difficult and here you can see some artifacts on testpatterns, but not with actual moviecontent. If you want clean artifact free testpatterns and have a 16x9 screen you use the 1080p to 3840x2160 upscaling with reality creation. If you can acceps some artifacts with testpatterns and have a 2.35:1 screen you can uset the 4096x2160 (this gives you a little more brightness) upscaling with reality creation, but you can also use the normal settings with 3840x2160.
The VW1100 has other features that makes it a very very food projector. It has one of the highest quality lenses of any digital, it has quite high on/off contrast (up to 20000:1) and together with a good DI it works very vell. It also has the techs highest ansi contrast at over 600:1 and that is in high end DLP land+++
But to you it is only a sh*tty 4k upsaling machine. It actually only have one weak side (of corse more than one, but this is the weakest) and that is not so deep blacklevel as a CRT of latest JVC, but as soon as there is a little light coming it has a very high intrascene contrast and very very good picture. But I know you donīt think that and never will and I donīt think you have ever seen a VW1100 and never will. For a CRT lover who only likes the 0 IRE and very very low APL scenes the VW1100 is no good, but for a person who fancy high end picturequality it is a very nice chiose. Not everyone only fancys the low end capabilities, if everyone did DLPīs would not be on the market. The VW1100 has much better low end capabilities than any high end 3 chip DLP, and I know this as I have seen a few including the Sim2 Lumis 3DS and Superlumis. And they are very good machines, but they have poor on/off contrast and poor low end capabilities. But they can light up very big screens and have another market than LCOS machines due to the very high brightness capabilities.
I fancy both the low end and bright end and that is why I own a JVC now, but it can not compete with the Sony from medium bright to bright material, and it does not have the same brightness. In my setup the JVC has enough light, but not for the ones with really big screens, I only have a 10m wide (about 10feet) 2.35:1 screen with 1.0 gain. So there is no perfect tech on the projector side and there is no perfect projector on the market, but there is things going on with lasers and HDR that makes a person interested in digital technology see a very intersting future ahead. And if you guys only fancy CRT you will not take part in it. |
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah Blah. Bottom line, if you scale up Native HD content, you have diminished it's native qualities. Scaling is good for Graphics and computers, and is only good when the scaling is slight or minor, as to better fit the image to the screen. But to scale almost four times the original, you taking a native rate image and trust a $100.00 built in scaling chip to map that image out over an four times the size pixel area. Now do I need to tell you that you not only introduce distortions in that process, but you also loose in color depth. I could really go on here, but I think I've already giving you more than you can chew right now so, I'll stop here.
HD is intended to be Native Rate, with the exception being Blending and other slight processing to fit the screen. Now, the good thing about native rate is that it's better to process down than up. Up scaling is the monster that eats the image quality. You'll see what I mean when 4K source comes out, and on whatever device that spits out 4K will most likely have an 1080P out as well. That 1080P out is what I'm also waiting for for me CRT. The same would go with digitals. 4K is going to look really good on our displays (both digital and CRT). |
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah I have seen a lot of 4K native on the VW1000/1100 and know that upscaled 1080p look real good. Better than all 1080p and CRT projectors.
And concidering yourl post over here, I never do anything else than downsize my screenshots. And as I have said many many times I donīt like screenshots, you on the other hand post screenshots as proof and then I answered you. And I wonder why you will not comment? I know animated movies always look good, I wonder why they look like sh*t on your CRT then.
I have some time off in a couple of hours and if I find it worthy I will take some shots from Apocalypto and post them here for comparizon. 
How can 4K look good on a CRT when it already has big problems with 1080p?? At what % MTF can a CRT show 1080p??
And why do you bring up the Sony 4K all the time?? I donīt have it anymore and I do all my comparizons with the JVC X500 and it is 1080p native, try to remember that! Ok??
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | In the US Sony has a 4K download service with over 140 movies |
That may have been their justification for selling it, but how much sense would it make if you could only use what Sony has to offer in movies.
Nobody else allows you access to their 4K material. |
Not much 4K correct hopefully soon. |
Yeah, and that's what I've been trying to tell Andreas. But he keeps saying they have this download service. So what do you download 4K to, and how long does it take to download one movie. Are the downloaded material movies, something that you're able to see in the theaters, or is it just 4K demo stuff, like lions chasing their lunch or waterfalls, etc.
Sony is notorious for selling stuff that's not complete. Their commercial grade 4K projectors have been on the commercial market for almost ten years now. I had a job site in Baltimore that was the control center in a submarine. It was on one of the floors in a building and was spread around though-out the whole floor of the building. It was originally a training site for part of the internal operation works in a submarine. The main part of the operation for us was the larger display system that ad dual 4K projectors side by side. They were edge match (line down the middle) not blended. They were powered by two Super Computer 3D Rendering Nodes. Using Nvidia Quadro 64 bit graphic cards. the best at the time, but there was still no 4K source material, and I'm sure the Quadro's were not 4K capable at the time. The room was seriously classified, so I never knew what was being put on the screens. I only had access to what resolutions and scan rates to run the test and demo stuff at. To this day, still not using the full native power of the projectors, and that's after several video card upgrades.
So with Sony 4K being almost 10 years on the market, the actual 4K content is still projected to be on the horizon one day.
And I'm sure you two guys got tired of waiting, so you dumped the 4K projectors for something that makes more sense to own.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | In the US Sony has a 4K download service with over 140 movies |
That may have been their justification for selling it, but how much sense would it make if you could only use what Sony has to offer in movies.
Nobody else allows you access to their 4K material. |
Not much 4K correct hopefully soon. |
Yeah, and that's what I've been trying to tell Andreas. But he keeps saying they have this download service. So what do you download 4K to, and how long does it take to download one movie. Are the downloaded material movies, something that you're able to see in the theaters, or is it just 4K demo stuff, like lions chasing their lunch or waterfalls, etc.
Sony is notorious for selling stuff that's not complete. Their commercial grade 4K projectors have been on the commercial market for almost ten years now. I had a job site in Baltimore that was the control center in a submarine. It was on one of the floors in a building and was spread around though-out the whole floor of the building. It was originally a training site for part of the internal operation works in a submarine. The main part of the operation for us was the larger display system that ad dual 4K projectors side by side. They were edge match (line down the middle) not blended. They were powered by two Super Computer 3D Rendering Nodes. Using Nvidia Quadro 64 bit graphic cards. the best at the time, but there was still no 4K source material, and I'm sure the Quadro's were not 4K capable at the time. The room was seriously classified, so I never knew what was being put on the screens. I only had access to what resolutions and scan rates to run the test and demo stuff at. To this day, still not using the full native power of the projectors, and that's after several video card upgrades.
So with Sony 4K being almost 10 years on the market, the actual 4K content is still projected to be on the horizon one day.
And I'm sure you two guys got tired of waiting, so you dumped the 4K projectors for something that makes more sense to own. |
4K blu-ray will be announced late this year or early next year!
The download service Sony provides lets you downlod to their 4K server that all VW1100 owners in the USA got for free and others can buy, how long it takes to download a 4K movie depends on how big the file is anfdhow fast download speed you have, but you already know that donīt you?? With normal dowloedspeed it does not take that long and with H.265 codecs the files will be smaller. And if you read my posts the site has over 140 movies and they release new movies at some rate. With your statements you proove you dont know anything about Sonys 4K HT machines so I think it is time you stopped this!
And why worry about people not using the native 4K of their displays, it is their own choise and 4K BD is coming soon. Why we sold has nothing to do with 4K not being released yet, I know it is coming soon, but it was time for me to try something new. You may be a self claimed expert, but you donīt know what I think and why I do things.
And in the pro market 4K has been awailable for qiute some time and it will only be more and more of it, and that is a fact!
3 years ago I built me a PC that could handle 4K and this has been awailable for 3 years + and it is not very expensive. You can build a 4K capable PC for not much more than 1000$ today. And then you can game in 4K native on your Sony 4K projector or TV.
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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OMG reality creation.
Think the marketing thought a long time about that one
Why not call it FAKE!!!
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah I have seen a lot of 4K native on the VW1000/1100 and know that upscaled 1080p look real good. Better than all 1080p and CRT projectors |
Yeah, demo stuff right. That's what they use to pull people into the purchase. And any argument you want to have on up scaling 1080P to 4K is a waste of both of our time. Because any processor that could possibly do it right would cost more than the projector itself. And even if it did, it would still be 1080P scaled to 4K and that in all technical sense is just plain stupid, that is if the goal is High Quality.
| Quote: | | I know animated movies always look good, I wonder why they look like sh*t on your CRT then |
You're comparing sharpness, and forgetting that your projector would make a more natural image look sharper than it actually is.
| Quote: | | I have some time off in a couple of hours and if I find it worthy I will take some shots from Apocalypto and post them here for comparizon. :thumbsup |
Good movie to check out. Hopefully your new projector will do better at not making it look artificial.
| Quote: | | How can 4K look good on a CRT when it already has big problems with 1080p?? At what % MTF can a CRT show 1080p?? |
This is what we've been trying to tell you. You keep referring to the CRT technology that does have the bandwidth to properly resolve 1080P. And until you actually see one that does have good MTF, you should stop speaking from a point of knowing what you're talking about.
| Quote: | | And why do you bring up the Sony 4K all the time?? I donīt have it anymore and I do all my comparizons with the JVC X500 and it is 1080p native, try to remember that! Ok?? |
Well, you guys came back to the forum boasting about the Sony, to later slowly revealing you both got rid of them. If you would have boasted about the X500, there would be little I could comment about, because I have no experience with it in any way. Not true with the 4K Sony you had. The posted images you used to post sucked big time. And the fact that it scales up the image within itself made for terrible results....but again, you guys seem like you would have never noticed a terribly up scaled image anyway (what do I look for?)
Last edited by mp20748 on Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | OMG reality creation.
Think the marketing thought a long time about that one
Why not call it FAKE!!! |
Yes, why not just call the company Fony instead of Sony.
You guys talk about how real your CRTīs look all the time, then I say it can not look real with that kind of picture quality, not even the best 4K machines look close to real meaning what you see when you look out of your window. There is nothing that can reproduce that, the closest I have seen if you look away from its black level capabilities it the VW1000/1100 when fed a native 4K source. If you mean real like filmlike a CRT is far from that as well as film does not have to look soft and dull.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah I have seen a lot of 4K native on the VW1000/1100 and know that upscaled 1080p look real good. Better than all 1080p and CRT projectors |
Yeah, demo stuff right. That's what they use to pull people into the purchase. And any argument you want to have on up scaling 1080P to 4K is a waste of both of our time. Because any processor that could possibly do it right would cost more than the projector itself. And even if it did, it would still be 1080P scaled to 4K and that in all technical sense is just plain stupid, that is if the goal is High Quality.
| Quote: | | I know animated movies always look good, I wonder why they look like sh*t on your CRT then |
You're comparing sharpness, and forgetting that your projector would make a more natural image look sharper than it actually is.
| Quote: | | I have some time off in a couple of hours and if I find it worthy I will take some shots from Apocalypto and post them here for comparizon. :thumbsup |
Good movie to check out. Hopefully your new projector will do better at not making it look artificial.
| Quote: | | How can 4K look good on a CRT when it already has big problems with 1080p?? At what % MTF can a CRT show 1080p?? |
This is what we've been trying to tell you. You keep referring to the CRT technology that does have the bandwidth to properly resolve 1080P. And until you actually see one that does have good MTF, you should stop speaking from a point of knowing what you're talking about.
| Quote: | | And why do you bring up the Sony 4K all the time?? I donīt have it anymore and I do all my comparizons with the JVC X500 and it is 1080p native, try to remember that! Ok?? |
Well, you guys came back to the forum boasting about the Sony, to later slowly revealing to both got rid of them. If you would have boasting about the X500, there would be little I could comment about, because I have no experience with it in any way. Not true with the 4K Sony you had. The posted images you used to post sucked big time. And that fact that it scales up the image within itself made for terrible results....but again, you guys seem like you would have never noticed a terribly up scaled image |
I have see 4K trailers from movies, I have seen 4K football, I have seen 4K documentaries and so on. You donīt know what I have seen. And actually it does not look that much better than upscaled 1080P on the Sony because the Sony does a hell of a job upscaling 4K. You have never seen this in person so stop this bull****!
And you say you have no experience with the X500, how can you say what you say then?? All my comparisons the last days have been with the X500 as I have sold my VW1100 and donīt have it in my HT anymore. And I could not boast about the X500 two years ago as it was released about a year ago...
And us boasting about the Sony is because of the tread name and it was nearly 2 years ago,
And I am not only comparing sharpness, all your screenshots is lacking a whole lot other than sharpness.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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We only say we do not like Fake. The CRT with 100% MDF resolution has real resolution. The CRT with very sharp beam and 100% MDF reproduces every detail that is on the source. The rest on your digitals is faked.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
You guys talk about how real your CRTīs look all the time, then I say it can not look real with that kind of picture quality, not even the best 4K machines look close to real meaning what you see when you look out of your window. There is nothing that can reproduce that, the closest I have seen if you look away from its black level capabilities it the VW1000/1100 when fed a native 4K source. If you mean real like filmlike a CRT is far from that as well as film does not have to look soft and dull. |
It's really a waste of time going over this with you.
You said in your previous thread: why you keep talking about the 4K, when if you look at your previous post, you keep bringing it up yourself. I'm only responding to you not wanting to talk about the X500, but you still boasting about how great the Sony is/was...but is now sold..
| Quote: | | There is nothing that can reproduce that, the closest I have seen... |
You need to go beyond that little world you live in between your two ears
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