|
As this forum is rarely used anymore, we've locked it. Feel free to browse and read. Questions? Please reach out to us directly. Cheers! |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andreas21 wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | Nobody knows about the future. If you get bad luck and loose your job and don't have the money to buy new bulbs or replace the throw away technology than you would be happy if you had a nice old CRT that can be repaired for little and plays your movies for years to come. |
To me a digital is not throw away tech it can be fixed just as your CRTīs. I personally have never owned a projector longer than 3 years (my VW1100) and normally use my HT about 3-400 hours a year, this makes me change bulbs about once every 3-4 years and it is not a problem to me. And the JVC X500 is "only" about 4000$ today and I find that to be really cheap for the picturequality I get. |
Well to me a digital is throw away technology. My HD350 died after three whole years of living. The panel became full white dots and the repair part was way to expensive even from ebay second hand. So I had to buy a new one like I did every 2 years or so in the past. The HD350 was my longest projector and I modified and experimented with it to make a better picture so it was sad she had such a short life. Than after carefully thinking about my options and that I want to experiment with beamers CRT was the better option. Now I was scared at first because of the stories that it might not be sharp or to noisy. The first time I got a pic from my 909 I was so happy this was better than I ever hoped and I have come a long way from that. The reasons for switching to CRT have not changed in my case. If I would buy a VW1000 I would have to live with what it is because experimenting with it would be far to dangerous than after some time I would buy another model because I would be bored with the flat looks or the bad blacks. You guys are marketing controlled.
_________________
701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tanwn1
Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 60
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I own a Barco cinemax with moome v3 gamma as well as a jvc X700. I am still enjoying both units and here's my comment:
Absolute black level 0 IRE - crt wins
Uniformity screen - jvc
brightness - jvc
motion resolution and lag - crt (jvc very good did not really bother about it)
intra scene - jvc
low key scene with mixed contrast - crt
ability to project big screen - jvc
ease of setup and noise level - jvc
perceived depth on low key scene - crt
It will defeat the purpose if you project a small screen size 92' to 100' 16:9 on a jvc and compare to crt.
Do i miss my crt if i can project a big 2.35 scope screen 138" on my jvc - absolutely not!
Do i miss my jvc (2.35 big scope screen 138") if i can only project a 92 to 100' on my crt - absolutely yes
To me there's no clear winner, depends on how you look at it and your preference. Unless you can do a blend on CRT (how many of us can?) which takes alot of work and make sure you have spare parts incase it breaks down in the future, for big scope screen 2.35 i will go for jvc. If I am only projecting a 16:9 110" screen size and below i will go for cinemax. If i can do a blend then i will go CRT.
Last edited by tanwn1 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andreas21 wrote: |
Not many planetariums use digital tech, but there is some using the Carl Zeiss Velvet 2chip DLP projector with 2500000:1 on /off contrast and amazing blacklevel. Here is the link: http://www.zeiss.com/planetariums/en_de/products/products/skymaster-velvet-hybrid-planetarium.html
And motion resolution on DLP is quite good, but not as good as CRT. When you get 2 or 6 chip laser DLP projectors in the simulation market no one is going to miss the dark abilities of the CRT anymore. For HT the performance of the X500/700/900 is way past the CRT in the darker areas of the pictures. |
A few years ago, they sent me to California to a Barco seminar. We were in the tech class on the Barco commercial and stereo (3D-imersive) display technology. and right outside the section we were in, they had the Cinema Projectors. We visited that section and spent some time looking at the projected images. I only wish you could hear the Service Engineers at Barco tell us as what we already knew. And that is the only technology that could possibly replace CRT would be Laser, because it would need to be able to completely TURN OFF. The information that is understood even from TI on the DLP technology, is that it can only get better, but it will NEVER be able to out perform CRT in the low end, because it cannot completely control the light.
Now, we've been hearing over the past twenty years that digital would get to CRT low lever range one day, but then later the manufacturers started to be honest with us, that it will not happen with the present technology, because you cannot completely control the light from the lamp.
Concerning things getting better with motion, it has, and that's why they went to 120 hz refresh rate to even 240 hz. That's it, because of the technology, it will have to happen using the refresh rate.
Barco has a projector with the same 2 chip DLP technology, and I've seen it. So no, it does not have amazing black lever, because it can't. It's lamp technology... and the brighter the digital projector, forget about the low end being amazing.
I must say I've seen some look really good, but again, you would have to hear the people who do the seminars explain the limits of the technology, and why it will most likely NEVER out perform a CRT in low end and FILM like performance. They explain this technically. A CRT projector paints the image on the screen going from left to right. Digital technology puts the image on the screen by tuning on millions of pixels, and that's why there will always be an motion issue, but who knows that newer technology that could one day improve on that shortcoming. But for CRT, it paints the image on the screen, and that's where you get your FLUID type of image that we around these woods prefer.
The Sony WV1000 is the wrong digital projector to be tooting your horn about. It has a native panel issue as well, it'd too bright for the best in HT performance
Last edited by mp20748 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| redfox001 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | Nobody knows about the future. If you get bad luck and loose your job and don't have the money to buy new bulbs or replace the throw away technology than you would be happy if you had a nice old CRT that can be repaired for little and plays your movies for years to come. |
To me a digital is not throw away tech it can be fixed just as your CRTīs. I personally have never owned a projector longer than 3 years (my VW1100) and normally use my HT about 3-400 hours a year, this makes me change bulbs about once every 3-4 years and it is not a problem to me. And the JVC X500 is "only" about 4000$ today and I find that to be really cheap for the picturequality I get. |
Well to me a digital is throw away technology. My HD350 died after three whole years of living. The panel became full white dots and the repair part was way to expensive even from ebay second hand. So I had to buy a new one like I did every 2 years or so in the past. The HD350 was my longest projector and I modified and experimented with it to make a better picture so it was sad she had such a short life. Than after carefully thinking about my options and that I want to experiment with beamers CRT was the better option. Now I was scared at first because of the stories that it might not be sharp or to noisy. The first time I got a pic from my 909 I was so happy this was better than I ever hoped and I have come a long way from that. The reasons for switching to CRT have not changed in my case. If I would buy a VW1000 I would have to live with what it is because experimenting with it would be far to dangerous than after some time I would buy another model because I would be bored with the flat looks or the bad blacks. You guys are marketing controlled. |
So you think a VW1100 would look flat compared to a CRT?? In very dark scenes it would, but in medium dark to brighter scenes it will blow the CRT away then it comes to depth. I use my X500 for darker movies and my VW1100 for the brighter movies and my VW1100 is leaving me for a new owner soon as I am going different ways in the future.
I am not marketing controlled, I test many different projectors side by side every year and I buy the best if I can afford it. What tech or label it has does not matter. 
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You don't even know you are marketing controlled. You buy and buy and buy because you read somewhere that there is a new model that has even more depth than amazing depth there already was. You read stories that the new VW1300 blows CRT completely away. You talk like a marketing controlled tv commercial. In denial
_________________
701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Digital is way better!
_________________
701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Not many planetariums use digital tech, but there is some using the Carl Zeiss Velvet 2chip DLP projector with 2500000:1 on /off contrast and amazing blacklevel. Here is the link: http://www.zeiss.com/planetariums/en_de/products/products/skymaster-velvet-hybrid-planetarium.html
And motion resolution on DLP is quite good, but not as good as CRT. When you get 2 or 6 chip laser DLP projectors in the simulation market no one is going to miss the dark abilities of the CRT anymore. For HT the performance of the X500/700/900 is way past the CRT in the darker areas of the pictures. |
A few years ago, they sent me to California to a Barco seminar. We were in the tech class on the Barco commercial and stereo (3D-imersive) display technology. and right outside the section we were in, they had the Cinema Projectors. We visited that section and spent some time looking at the projected images. I only wish you could hear the Service Engineers at Barco tell us as what we already knew. And that is the only technology that could possibly replace CRT would be Laser, because it would need to be able to completely TURN OFF. The information that is understood even from TI on the DLP technology, is that it can only get better, but it will NEVER be able to out perform CRT in the low end, because it cannot completely control the light.
Now, we've been hearing over the past twenty years that digital would get to CRT low lever range one day, but then later the manufacturers started to be honest with us, that it will not happen with the present technology, because you cannot completely control the light from the lamp.
Concerning things getting better with motion, it has, and that's why they went to 120 hz refresh rate to even 240 hz. That's it, because of the technology, it will have to happen using the refresh rate.
Barco has a projector with the same 2 chip DLP technology, and I've seen it. So no, it does not have amazing black lever, because it can't. It's lamp technology... and the brighter the digital projector, forget about the low end being amazing.
I must say I've seen some look really good, but again, you would have to hear the people who do the seminars explain the limits of the technology, and why it will most likely NEVER out perform a CRT in low end and FILM like performance. They explain this technically. A CRT projector paints the image on the screen going from left to right. Digital technology puts the image on the screen by tuning on millions of pixels, and that's why there will always be an motion issue, but who knows that newer technology that could one day improve on that shortcoming. But for CRT, it paints the image on the screen, and that's where you get your FLUID type of image that we around these woods prefer.
The Sony WV1000 is the wrong digital projector to be tooting your horn about. It has a native panel issue as well, it'd too bright for the best in HT performance |
WV1100 to bright for HT?? That depends on many factors. Then I would say CRT is to dim for HT...
I have seen different CRTīs and I dont find motion when watching 24hz movie material to be that much better than my Sony or JVC, when watching motion resolution tests it is a different matter.
And the blacklevel abilty of the JVC X500/700/900 is very close to CRT and I would be so bold to say it is much better in low APL scenes due to much higher intrascene and on/off contrast.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andreas21 wrote: |
So you think a VW1100 would look flat compared to a CRT?? In very dark scenes it would, but in medium dark to brighter scenes it will blow the CRT away then it comes to depth. I use my X500 for darker movies and my VW1100 for the brighter movies and my VW1100 is leaving me for a new owner soon as I am going different ways in the future.
I am not marketing controlled, I test many different projectors side by side every year and I buy the best if I can afford it. What tech or label it has does not matter. |
The problem is, you guys keep basing your comments on what you've already seen with CRT technology, and based on that you think you seen the world. It's just like if you read books or data that goes back to the Roman days, it refers to the what is known as Europe as being the World. That was true, because they never went beyond they borders, and that's exactly what you guys keep doing... there is more out there to see CRT, and I would suggest that until you've seen it all, stopp making those ridiculous claims.
Your VW1000 would look sick if it was in a shoot-out with the best of CRT technology today
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| redfox001 wrote: | | You don't even know you are marketing controlled. You buy and buy and buy because you read somewhere that there is a new model that has even more depth than amazing depth there already was. You read stories that the new VW1300 blows CRT completely away. You talk like a marketing controlled tv commercial. In denial |
How do you know this, how do you know how I think. CRT to me is not something I would compare to. The only reason I do this is because some idiot say that CRT is still the bomb with HD and some other stated that they have a CRT that will blow away all digitals ever...
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
So you think a VW1100 would look flat compared to a CRT?? In very dark scenes it would, but in medium dark to brighter scenes it will blow the CRT away then it comes to depth. I use my X500 for darker movies and my VW1100 for the brighter movies and my VW1100 is leaving me for a new owner soon as I am going different ways in the future.
I am not marketing controlled, I test many different projectors side by side every year and I buy the best if I can afford it. What tech or label it has does not matter. |
The problem is, you guys keep basing your comments on what you've already seen with CRT technology, and based on that you think you seen the world. It's just like if you read books or data that goes back to the Roman days, it refers to the what is known as Europe as being the World. That was true, because they never went beyond they borders, and that's exactly what you guys keep doing... there is more out there to see CRT, and I would suggest that until you've seen it all, stopp making those ridiculous claims.
Your VW1000 would look sick if it was in a shoot-out with the best of CRT technology today |
I know my VW1100 would make the CRT look sick in almost every aspect of picturequality as I have seen it side by side with different CRTīs and the only thing the CRT is better is at 0-4 IRE, when more light comes to the picture the VW1100 is miles in front of any CRT.
I dont think there is more to see with CRT than a properly setup 9", and I have seen that. And it was set up by experts and if they donīt know how to do it how user friendly is CRT??
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
Last edited by Andreas21 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andreas21 wrote: |
How do you know this, how do you know how I think. CRT to me is not something I would compare to. The only reason I do this is because some idiot say that CRT is still the bomb with HD and some other stated that they have a CRT that will blow away all digitals ever... |
OK, now we get to find out why you and the Lone Ranger keep riding into town here.
Some idiot said CRT is the bomb. Why didn't you just see that as an opinion, and not something to go to war about. Do you also take on other senseless agendas, because you feel you need to defend everything you disagree with.
Now, not sure who that "idiot" was, but I can can tell you that my setup would wipe the floor with the VW1000. mainly because I'm familiar the weaker chain in it (panel) and that's it's not something that even Sony would boast about
Last edited by mp20748 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
How do you know this, how do you know how I think. CRT to me is not something I would compare to. The only reason I do this is because some idiot say that CRT is still the bomb with HD and some other stated that they have a CRT that will blow away all digitals ever... |
OK, now we get to find out why you and the Lone Ranger keep riding into town here.
Some idiot said CRT is the bomb. Why didn't you just see that as an opinion, and not something to go to war about. Do also take on other senseless agendas, because you feel you need to defend everything you disagree with.
Now, not sure who that "idiot" was, but I can can tell to you that my setup would wipe the floor with the VW1000. mainly because I'm familiar the weaker chain in it (panel) and that's it's not something that even Sony would boast about |
I have heard this before. That my CRT setup will wipe the floor with any digital, and I donīt belive it as I have seen different CRT against different digitals and the latest was a 909 against a X500 and the X500 wiped the floor with the 909.
I can see it as an opinion, but I am not allowed to say I find my digitals to be superior to you belowed CRTīs without being told to leave by grumpy old men. 
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Andreas21 wrote: | I have heard this before. That my CRT setup will wipe the floor with any digital, and I donīt belive it as I have seen different CRT against different digitals and the latest was a 909 against a X500 and the X500 wiped the floor with the 909.
I can see it as an opinion, but I am not allowed to say I find my digitals to be superior to you belowed CRTīs without being told to leave by grumpy old men. |
You guys pop up here like Paul Revere with an urgency, thinking you're bringing us good news about something we know nothing about. We are into CRT by choice, and it's not like we're dumbfounded or have our heads buried in the sand. It's just we prefer to stay with the technology, and that should be OK, and that's why we don't invade a digital forum with our passion for CRT.
None of the projectors mentioned is competition material...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
After seeing the new Sony/JVC models at the HT dealer it was clear after a few minutes that they are NO option..
There wasn't even a WOW effect.
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
This was cool 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ElTopo wrote: | After seeing the new Sony/JVC models at the HT dealer it was clear after a few minutes that they are NO option..
There wasn't even a WOW effect. |
Maybe try to see if you need glasses? Can help hehe
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
So you think a VW1100 would look flat compared to a CRT?? In very dark scenes it would, but in medium dark to brighter scenes it will blow the CRT away then it comes to depth. I use my X500 for darker movies and my VW1100 for the brighter movies and my VW1100 is leaving me for a new owner soon as I am going different ways in the future.
I am not marketing controlled, I test many different projectors side by side every year and I buy the best if I can afford it. What tech or label it has does not matter. |
The problem is, you guys keep basing your comments on what you've already seen with CRT technology, and based on that you think you seen the world. It's just like if you read books or data that goes back to the Roman days, it refers to the what is known as Europe as being the World. That was true, because they never went beyond they borders, and that's exactly what you guys keep doing... there is more out there to see CRT, and I would suggest that until you've seen it all, stopp making those ridiculous claims.
Your VW1000 would look sick if it was in a shoot-out with the best of CRT technology today |
Hahahahaha hahaha hahaha waterhead.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Diddern how big is your screen ?
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ElTopo wrote: | | Diddern how big is your screen ? |
I have a 110" and most of the tests with 909 is on bigger from 120- 125"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
