Eisemann-Theater Simulation Grade Tubes better than VW1000ES

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Eisemann-Theater Simulation Grade Tubes better than VW1000ES
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stridsvognen
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:

stridsvognen wrote:

Im talking about color balance, but color shift..

No, you're talking about color balance. Older iPhones did not do a good job with uniform color balance.

stridsvognen wrote:

You can not evaluate grayscale or collor temperature, or resolution, but you can see if one area changes color from the next, or the light level are around the same in to areas next to each other, unless its so white its clipping.

No, you really can't - for the reason I just mentioned. Because the color balance uniformity is so poor, you can't make judgments about how "one area changes color from the next".

stridsvognen wrote:

Those 6 resolution groups should display the same level of light and hold the same color.. If you move far back so you cant see the resolution.

There should BE NO COLOR. If there is, it's either the projector or the camera imparting the color. As you say, in the case of CRT, the single-pixel lines often blend together toward a solid gray, but with a color shift. In this case however, it's the camera, since the closeup shot clearly reveals there are nice, sharp, well-rendered horizontal and vertical lines. Even Mike's suggestion that there is a bunch of processing going on, while true, is a bit specious. The bottom line is that the horizontal and vertical lines are extremely well-defined - far more so than any CRT - in spite of the upscaling!

stridsvognen wrote:

Resolution is 3 dimensional, its more than just seeing that there is lines, and how sharp they are.

The b/w alternating lines are all about measuring frequency response, which actually is all about the lines and how sharp they are. Of course there are other image quality parameters, but that's not what we're discussing at the moment.

SC

If you stop telling me what im talking about, and try understand me instead ill not tell you what to do next.

So what is it that you dont understand.???

If i tell you that my crappy low resolution iphone pics displays very well the color shift and light level shift shown on the screen.

And if its all pink so what.. then its all pink and there is no color shift betwen patterns.

f*ck you are anoying when you know better what i see on my screen and my pictures..

ecrabb
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject:

stridsvognen wrote:

If you stop telling me what im talking about, and try understand me instead ill not tell you what to do next.

So what is it that you dont understand.???

I'm not having any trouble understanding anything.

stridsvognen wrote:

If i tell you that my crappy low resolution iphone pics displays very well the color shift and light level shift shown on the screen.

OK, then apparently you have the only iPhone on the planet with excellent brightness uniformity and color balance uniformity. Even my $750 DSLR zoom lens has significant brightness uniformity issues, but you're going to learn about "light level shift shown on the screen" from your iPhone? Are you serious?

stridsvognen wrote:

And if its all pink so what.. then its all pink and there is no color shift betwen patterns.

That's color balance. Either you don't understand what I'm talking about, or there's a language barrier issue, here.

stridsvognen wrote:

f*ck you are anoying when you know better what i see on my screen and my pictures..

Seeing is one thing. Understanding what you're seeing, and knowing what you can and can't rely on to see what you see is another.

By the way, the feeling is mutual. I just refrained from saying so... Until now.

SC

ecrabb
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject:

stridsvognen wrote:

If i tell you that my crappy low resolution iphone pics displays very well the color shift and light level shift shown on the screen.

Please explain the callouts in the attached image.

SC

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stridsvognen
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:

stridsvognen wrote:

If you stop telling me what im talking about, and try understand me instead ill not tell you what to do next.

So what is it that you dont understand.???

I'm not having any trouble understanding anything.

stridsvognen wrote:

If i tell you that my crappy low resolution iphone pics displays very well the color shift and light level shift shown on the screen.

stridsvognen wrote:

And if its all pink so what.. then its all pink and there is no color shift betwen patterns.

That's color balance. Either you don't understand what I'm talking about, or there's a language barrier issue, here.

stridsvognen wrote:

f*ck you are anoying when you know better what i see on my screen and my pictures..

So do you think its for fun i take a picture of what i like to display, and keep retaking it untill it looks like what i see on the screen in the area i like to display.?

At least i think im more serious with my sh*tty iphone displaying something i can say look like what i see.. Compared to others posting pictures they say dont look like what they see on the screen.

Im not trying to display contrast color balance or black level.. I know the image is blurry.. but guess what.. The 6 pattern group almost holds the same level, and thats what i want to show. And thats what they do..

If i want to display how sharp they dont look ill say i cant do that untill i get another camera.

But you digital guys seems to think that your displays are reference to this pattern.

Try post a reference screanshot from your JVC, and show us how messed up that looks.
just the level. Ill like to see the JVC hold colors and same light in all 6 areas.

You need to get so far back that you cant see the black betwen the lines..

stridsvognen
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject:

Lets finish this area first.. Its what i took shots far back at and wanted to display.. But i see you clearly lost that.. My images cant be used for gray/ color balance/ levels

jbmeyer13

Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject:

Uh oh...you mess with the Crab and you get the claws! I just really wanted to say that Seriously, WTF is the point of this? A super-high end digital with a fixed pixel structure is going to perform better on this test than nearly any CRT. The CRT will have to be modified to hell and more importantly have PERFECT set up to even be in the discussion. Now if someone here can tell me HOW we can get our CRT's to achieve optimal or close to optimal 1:1 that would be something useful. If your magnetics aren't dead on then you won't have any chance and all of these photos end up being counterproductive crap. Just say'n.... _________________ Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!

stridsvognen
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject:

Here are 2 shots.. far back.. forget sharpness.. think there i another level to resolution the light output.. the ability to hold a stable output at any resolution. What shot looks closest to perfect in the area marked in red.. Ohh and pretend that what you see in the image is whats seen on the screen..

Andreas21

Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject:

stridsvognen wrote:

Here are 2 shots.. far back.. forget sharpness.. think there i another level to resolution the light output.. the ability to hold a stable output at any resolution.

What shot looks closest to perfect in the area marked in red..

Ohh and pretend that what you see in the image is whats seen on the screen..

You need to stop now! have told you that when I watch the VW1000 on screen it is showing these areas as black and white no matter how far I get from the screen and my room is 6m long so I cant get any further. The iPhone shows these areas as much darker, but when I watch the screen they are not. Can you understand that? Or do you think the VW1000 has a limited bandwith?

And see all the noise in your picture and watch the letters and numbers and lines, blacklevel, brightness, silmontaincontrast compared to the VW1000 and so on and so on.

You keep telling me all the time that this is not a competition, do you know that yourself??
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

stridsvognen
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:34 pm Post subject:

Andreas21 wrote:

stridsvognen wrote:

This is still not about the projectors.. im trying to see how we see the testpatterns and understand them.. seems like nobody are looking at the same area of the pattern.

Why do you think i wrote you have to emagine that the image is whats seen on the screen..

If you like to show how the SONY do that test, make a screanshot that shows it.. you can borow my iphone 3.

So from whats shown on the images, wich one performs most perfect on the parameter i asked about.?

Sorry i used the sony screenshot, i was to lazy to take one of my JVC.

Andreas21

Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject:

stridsvognen wrote:

Andreas21 wrote:

stridsvognen wrote:

Ohh, I am sorry I forgot your CRT is perfect...

I have told you now many many times, but you wont listen, what is shown on screen is not what the picture shows. Do you understand what I am saying or do you need it written in Danish?
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas

stridsvognen
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject:

Andreas21 wrote:

stridsvognen wrote:

Andreas21 wrote:

stridsvognen wrote:

Forget about the image beeing From a sony.. evaluate what you see.. Lets say its from another CRT projector..

Again.. emagine what you see on the picture is whats displayed on the screen..

And now you may go make a screenshot that demonstrate how the SONY realy looks like on a distance. 3-4m back.

We cant use a screanshot who shows something whos not there. Its ok it dont show everything.. just a shot who dont adds stuff.

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:49 pm Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:

Look at THIS photo and tell us what's wrong with it...

What I see in this photo, is exactly what I see in the other photo. be mindful that I did also mention this photo. And also before you continue to piss out more unfounded theory, know that we do use camera's for this, and the camera can be fairly true to the image.... but that's IF THE IMAGE HAS NOT BEEN SHARPENED.

Andreas21

Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

ecrabb wrote:

Look at THIS photo and tell us what's wrong with it...

So you use iPhone 4 cameras when you evaluate projectors, and you call yourself a professional?? What is your line of work??

And I wonder if you can evaluate the rest of the testpattern compared to the CRT of stridsvognen, wich projector shows the testpattern most correctly?? Wink

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mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject:

Andreas21 wrote:

So you use iPhone 4 cameras when you evaluate projectors, and you call yourself a professional?? What is your line of work??

The photo shows one of the many problem setups I was sent out to fix. It at the time had been in operation for about four years, but was never really finished properly.

It has three (3) Christie Digital DLP projectors behind that 40 foot wide Stewart glass screen (diamond). It is powered by a Christie Digital SPYDER processor ($40.000)

It is a three projector BLENDED setup.

My job was to solve the image problem, and I did. can't find it now, but a year or so ago. I posted that same setup showing it perfectly blended.

Now and so that you're know, we do use cell phones as a tool... Wink

But I'm not familiar with an Iphone.

And btw, that is my tool bag and laptop.

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Andreas21

Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:42 pm Post subject:

I am a AVtechnitian and I have worked with BLENDED setups many times with extreme high prices and I always make them work poperly so I think you are not the only expert here. But we never evaluate something from pictures taken with an phone! _________________ http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject:

Andreas21 wrote:

I am a AVtechnitian and I have worked with BLENDED setups many times with extreme high prices and I always make them work poperly so I think you are not the only expert here. But we never evaluate something from pictures taken with an phone!

Really, where have you been. What manufacturer have you worked for?

and so that you'll know, the concept of using a phone on a display system is a powerful tool. Try not to think of it as something simple as a phone, when you're working on some systems that cost up in the millions. It is a very powerful tool, if you know what to do with it.

Another one of my prized projects...

It is three rear fired screens and one floor display system, with three Christie Digital DLP projectors firing directly behind the three (front and sides) screens, with one DLP projector mounted directly over the cube, firing into a mirror at the floor screen material.

The screens are 10 foot wide.

The setup is powered by four special computers (Graphic Nodes) each could have up to 32gigs of ram. It is a stereoscopic (3D) Immersive display system.

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Andreas21

Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:55 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

Andreas21 wrote:

Really, where have you been. What manufacturer have you worked for?

and so that you'll know, the concept of using a phone on a display system is a powerful tool. Try not to think of it as something simple as a phone, when you're working on some systems that cost up in the millions. It is a very powerful tool, if you know what to do with it.

Another one of my prized projects...

It is three rear fired screens, with three Christie Digital DLP projectors firing directly behind the three (front and sides) screens, with one DLP projector mounted directly over the cube, firing into a mirror at the floor screen material.

Tyhe screens are 10 foot wide.

The setup is powered by four special computers (Graphic Nodes) each could have up to 32gigs of ram. It is a stereoscopic (3D) Immersive display system.

I live in Norway so I don´t think that is important, but you talk to me like I am a baby so I just needed to let you know.

And you don´t answer my questions: If you look at the rest of the testpattern and compare the VW1000 with stridsvognens CRT witch shows the testpattern most correct??

And when can we see the same pattern from your CRT??
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mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:58 pm Post subject:

Andreas21 wrote:

I live in Norway so I don´t think that is important, but you talk to me like I am a baby so I just needed to let you know.

No, I came into this thread, with you attacking me after I posted my opinion. Do you need to see what the business card has on it that they gave me?

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject:

Andreas21 wrote:

And you don´t answer my questions: If you look at the rest of the testpattern and compare the VW1000 with stridsvognens CRT witch shows the testpattern most correct??

And when can we see the same pattern from your CRT??

It's really hard to tell, but what I can tell you is, if you're going to scale 1080P to native 4K, you should read the manual of your Sony and look for an adjustment like: Pixel Phase, pixel timing, pixel shift or something along those lines. and if you don't see anything there, contact Sony and ask (because it could be in a hidden menu). Because the importance of scaling up on high end digital, is the ability to juggle the pixel structure. there should be something that would allow you to do so. Because that alignment is what is needed to make the image really perform to it's best.

And when and if you find that adjustment, you can use your phone (because you may not have the proper test pattern) to get a better image.

Andreas21

Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:25 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

Andreas21 wrote:

So you don´t think Sony would have perfected the phase and timing on this high end projector?
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