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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | I can't wait to pick one up in 8 years on eBay for $150 bucks  |
I know you're just joking, but good luck with that. It's mostly the really old non-16:9 stuff like the JVC you bought that's $150 or less. Take a look at what used JVC RS1's go for on ebay... Usually about $600-700. For a 6-year old machine. Year-newer RS-2's are $800-900. I'd guess it will take well in excess of 10 years for a VW1000 to drop below a grand. You won't be buying one for $150 for a looooooong time - unless it was bounced off the floor.
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Says you!
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:11 am Post subject: |
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Well, rumor has it that the new Sony 4K will be useless in 2 years since the 4K signal format isn't quite set in stone. This from a 'reliable' source at CEDIA. So this reeks of what Sony did with the Qualia 004 10 years ago, you had to pay $3500 to get a 1080p upgrade. So you never know..
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | I can't wait to pick one up in 8 years on eBay for $150 bucks |
I know you're just joking, but good luck with that. It's mostly the really old non-16:9 stuff like the JVC you bought that's $150 or less. Take a look at what used JVC RS1's go for on ebay... Usually about $600-700. For a 6-year old machine. Year-newer RS-2's are $800-900. I'd guess it will take well in excess of 10 years for a VW1000 to drop below a grand. You won't be buying one for $150 for a looooooong time - unless it was bounced off the floor.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Well, rumor has it that the new Sony 4K will be useless in 2 years since the 4K signal format isn't quite set in stone. This from a 'reliable' source at CEDIA. So this reeks of what Sony did with the Qualia 004 10 years ago, you had to pay $3500 to get a 1080p upgrade. So you never know.. |
Do not know what you talk about, Sony makes an upgrade to VW1000 so it gets VW1100. Costs some, but if you want to keep up you do. I will. 
Then ready with hdmi2.0 
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Well, rumor has it that the new Sony 4K will be useless in 2 years since the 4K signal format isn't quite set in stone. This from a 'reliable' source at CEDIA. So this reeks of what Sony did with the Qualia 004 10 years ago, you had to pay $3500 to get a 1080p upgrade. So you never know.. |
Do not know what you talk about, Sony makes an upgrade to VW1000 so it gets VW1100. Costs some, but if you want to keep up you do. I will.
Then ready with hdmi2.0 |
I think he's referring to the 4K/UHD (whatever they're going to call it) format standards - none exist yet. Right now all we have is 4K material via the Sony media server mastered to REC.709 standards. REC.2020 is certainly a contender for becoming the UHD standard, and we've already verified that no display available right now can come close to producing primaries with the saturation required by the spec. 2020 also specifies a minimum of 10 bits per color channel, and I don't know how many of the current 4K/UHD displays are capable of receiving/processing that.
Of course a different standard may be settled upon, but that's the point - there's no assurance out there that any current 4K display will be compatible with the eventual 4K/UHD standards, it's a crap shoot. That doesn't detract from the amazing pictures these displays are capable of producing, but until the standards get finalized that will probably prevent anyone but the usual early adopters from jumping into the 4K/UHD train.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Well, rumor has it that the new Sony 4K will be useless in 2 years since the 4K signal format isn't quite set in stone. This from a 'reliable' source at CEDIA. So this reeks of what Sony did with the Qualia 004 10 years ago, you had to pay $3500 to get a 1080p upgrade. So you never know.. |
If rec 2020 becomes a 4K standard then all 4K displays at this time will be useless as there is no display that can show this colorspace. But with the upgrade coming for the VW1000 it will be able to show 4K up to 60hz and will have the same specs as the VW1000 coming in nowember. But as the 4K standard is not set in stone no one knows yet, but with the current specs on 4K with the Sony server it is no problem and I donīt think 4K BD (if it ever comes) will be a problem either.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| geisemann wrote: | I contacted Allen G about the new people at AVS so he is going to have a talk with them about removing posts that are a good discussion. He is no longer involved with day to day operations and he was a good person to have on the CRT form.
I am working on the new mods now to send to a couple of people for testing. The new parts are just arriving from Mouser to my shop in the next few days. So will get the users to perform a detailed write up and we can post on AVS and here but it may take a few weeks. I am just going what my end users tell me from emails about the VW1000 and a Mod Cine 9 . The end user was in Germany and he said when he has time will post some details. I dont have time to test every digital against a CRT. So I just get feedback via email.
http://www.eisemann-theater.com/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=78&op=page&SubMenu=
I attached a report we wrote to our military users to talk about how CRT is superior to Digital for simulation and home theater I hope this helps some and it will provide some incite.
I hope that helps
Greg |
Any news on the testing, and some documentation of the improvements from the latest mods.?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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This topic"" Eisemann-Theater Simulation Grade Tubes better than VW1000ES""" was just based on total bull**** form the start.
About the Mods they does picture some better, and simulation tubes also. But marginal improvements visible in total picture.
But sorry to say.... I love CRT and still do, but a CRT can`t compare to a good digital today around price 2500-3000 dollar.
Much less than doing upgrades to a CRT.
Even Stevie Wonder would see that. So IF "said something else" just a CRT fan boy or other interests like sales or do not have a clue what they talking about. This is a CRT Forum Yes, but lies and untrue statements or Topic`s like this!!! Total bull****.
I KNOW
I started a new true Topic regarding this you ask of mr. G Any news on the testing, and some documentation of the improvements from the latest mods.? )
The owner will show improvements and show what you ask for mister stridsvognen in that treed, if that does not happen you know the answer. 
Have a good film weekend
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:22 am Post subject: |
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You know DIddern, you make yourself out the be the grand sage of video pj quality, but what exactly is the basis of this title? Are you in the industry? Is your education in this field? In contrast, are you just an enthusiast who has seen and compared some projectors?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | You know DIddern, you make yourself out the be the grand sage of video pj quality, but what exactly is the basis of this title? Are you in the industry? Is your education in this field? In contrast, are you just an enthusiast who has seen and compared some projectors? |
I have hunted for the best picture for many years now, and I do this testing and stuff for fun.
And to find the best possible for my price level.
I do side by side tests just for own interest and learning.
And of course after many years of this,I see differences, also quality easy.
I have friends that do the same, so we often meet or call very often.
Also with a educated high professional calibrator picture and sound on the team it's easy to get facts..
Everything I say is checked up so I know I write facts.
You can at least believe what I say is true, and that I chec things before I say or write stuff unlike others.
So no superman here just someone that is very interested and have the possibility to do tests of projectors with NO commission from anyone if I write positive or negative. Just fact fact fact. With visible seen picture. Sheep or expensive.
And sorry my English I'm Norwegian. 👌
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:27 am Post subject: |
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No side-by-side pics, no proof.
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:31 am Post subject: |
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I think we need to forget about the digital for a sec, and let Eismann show us what those improvements do, he promised to deliver more information.
The digital VS CRT will never finish, its all about preferences, and in many cases, as seen here also missing skils from the one setting up the CRT.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | I think we need to forget about the digital for a sec, and let Eismann show us what those improvements do, he promised to deliver more information.
The digital VS CRT will never finish, its all about preferences, and in many cases, as seen here also missing skils from the one setting up the CRT. |
You guys are very late on the scene. This site is littered with extensive threads on digital v crt. No winner just preferences.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | No side-by-side pics, no proof. |
I can't understand why do you chase the title of the "owner of the best projector in the world"... the question is whether you statisfied with your projector or not. Would you sleep better if Diddern were stated that (your) cine9 is the best on the whole planet? The projector is just a tool to give us visual pleasure so the key question is if you enjoy what you get or not, from that point the type of the projector is uninportant.
For example I have a NEC 9PG xtra which considered to be on the lower end of the mid-class by most of the people here, but I don't care about that because I like the picture of it and that's all what matters.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | No side-by-side pics, no proof. |
Hehe you never stop do you. 😘
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | ElTopo wrote: | | No side-by-side pics, no proof. |
I can't understand why do you chase the title of the "owner of the best projector in the world"... the question is whether you statisfied with your projector or not. Would you sleep better if Diddern were stated that (your) cine9 is the best on the whole planet? The projector is just a tool to give us visual pleasure so the key question is if you enjoy what you get or not, from that point the type of the projector is uninportant.
For example I have a NEC 9PG xtra which considered to be on the lower end of the mid-class by most of the people here, but I don't care about that because I like the picture of it and that's all what matters. |
👍
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| km987654 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | I think we need to forget about the digital for a sec, and let Eismann show us what those improvements do, he promised to deliver more information.
The digital VS CRT will never finish, its all about preferences, and in many cases, as seen here also missing skils from the one setting up the CRT. |
You guys are very late on the scene. This site is littered with extensive threads on digital v crt. No winner just preferences. |
Sure we are, but digital is changing to the better all the time, and many have the last few years changed preferences..
But there is also some huge progress in the Marquee camp, its now possible to get the bandwidth to fully resolve 1080P 72hz.
And higher...
So if you think you know how a CRT looks like.. Think again..
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| km987654 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | I think we need to forget about the digital for a sec, and let Eismann show us what those improvements do, he promised to deliver more information.
The digital VS CRT will never finish, its all about preferences, and in many cases, as seen here also missing skils from the one setting up the CRT. |
You guys are very late on the scene. This site is littered with extensive threads on digital v crt. No winner just preferences. |
You are right this will never stop. Some like digital some like CRT does not matter.
What matters is what you can afford and what you like in a picture and do not compare side by side.
If you do that you see easy differences and ups and downs with different machines.
But to say without seeing something side by side in same room. Does not matter to me what people say,
But I get frustrated since what's on screen with CRT is far for. A digital.
But again some like different things in a picture. But then don't say that it's a reference movie projector, best in the world and so on. My only intrest on this forum is only to tell the fact. And anyone are welcome to see for themselves.
I can make it happen. Sad that it's far to travel😔
I love the picture that CRT shows but things get better. And are much better.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | km987654 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | I think we need to forget about the digital for a sec, and let Eismann show us what those improvements do, he promised to deliver more information.
The digital VS CRT will never finish, its all about preferences, and in many cases, as seen here also missing skils from the one setting up the CRT. |
You guys are very late on the scene. This site is littered with extensive threads on digital v crt. No winner just preferences. |
Sure we are, but digital is changing to the better all the time, and many have the last few years changed preferences..
But there is also some huge progress in the Marquee camp, its now possible to get the bandwidth to fully resolve 1080P 72hz.
And higher...
So if you think you know how a CRT looks like.. Think again.. |
But the pure bandwidth isn't everything... the fact that CRT draws with a round dot instead of using square pixels will make it look "softer" than a digital (for those who are prefering the sharpness, and frankly these days this is what most people care about); and the other when the electron beam hits the phosphor it lights up the phosphor near to it, degrading the ANSI contrast, these are major drawbacks for CRT against digital, and cannot be eliminated without major redesigning -that surely won't happen...
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | km987654 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | I think we need to forget about the digital for a sec, and let Eismann show us what those improvements do, he promised to deliver more information.
The digital VS CRT will never finish, its all about preferences, and in many cases, as seen here also missing skils from the one setting up the CRT. |
You guys are very late on the scene. This site is littered with extensive threads on digital v crt. No winner just preferences. |
Sure we are, but digital is changing to the better all the time, and many have the last few years changed preferences..
But there is also some huge progress in the Marquee camp, its now possible to get the bandwidth to fully resolve 1080P 72hz.
And higher...
So if you think you know how a CRT looks like.. Think again.. |
But the pure bandwidth isn't everything... the fact that CRT draws with a round dot instead of using square pixels will make it look "softer" than a digital (for those who are prefering the sharpness, and frankly these days this is what most people care about); and the other when the electron beam hits the phosphor it lights up the phosphor near to it, degrading the ANSI contrast, these are major drawbacks for CRT against digital, and cannot be eliminated without major redesigning -that surely won't happen... |
Bandwidth is for sure not everything, but if you had seen the difference, you will know that it for sure is a must have.
And the bandwidth have huge inpact on the ansi contrast.. And sharpness..
Thats where the mods are interesting, and why this thread is interesting, to see if the claims hold any facts, or just sales talk.
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