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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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The next time you guys (Diddern and Andy) are in the states. So if you could make it out to Tim Martin's and check out his Blend Setup. He does it entirely by eye. I guarantee you'll change you mind and never say another stupid word to anyone else about calibrating without equipment.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
Gamma is around 2.4
CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Why do you have to call him names?? Why do you have to be so rude?
And how do you know you have a 2.4 gamma if you calibrate by eye?
What he is saying is that your CRT with a correctly setup video level 16-235 will not show black (0 IRE) as 0 because of the green tube will not shut completely down. To make this happen you need to set it up with some black crush.
And about you 2 last questions I have already answered them so it is no need for Diddern (not Dildo) to answer them.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | The next time you guys (Diddern and Andy) are in the states. So if you could make it out to Tim Martin's and check out his Blend Setup. He does it entirely by eye. I guarantee you'll change you mind and never say another stupid word to anyone else about calibrating without equipment. |
This is so stupid! 
YOU CAN NOT DO A CALIBRATION BY EYE AND GET EVEN CLOSE TO bt709 RESULTS. Please write that down. 
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
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But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou |
I never say i dont need a probe, why do you think i have one, and i think you remember me posting calibration files of different CRT setups.. The thing is you can make a CRT look damn good by eye, what is almost impossible with a digital.
Ask Justin if i had the need to rush out get his projector calibrated with a 7000$ meter, after we tweaked it.
I also never claim anything to be better, i say i prefer the Marquee, specially with the mods, and ill never go back to live with a standard Marquee, or a G90 for that matter.
Im all crazy about the way Mike make the Marquee perform, and i doubt there will be something around the corner to make me change direction.
Im quit new to CRT, its not like i started there, or got stuck inside one while growing up.
I also think you know ill buy whatever gear ill like to try, analog digital or whatever. |
It is not hard to make the latest Sonys and JVC´s to look good by eye, beacause if you know what pre setting to put it at most of them are very close to bt709 out of the box.
And also if you have a clue of what you are doing you can get a digital to look as good as a CRT by eye, but it is just stupid to even claim you can do this well by eye. And if Justin was happy with your by eye calibration he is ignorant and there is a saying: Ignorance i bliss.
Also you have a problem with only having a colorimeter and not have a spectroradiometer to profile it with, when you don´t profile your colorimeter you have no idea if it measures "correct" or not, but you already knew that did you not? And also your colorimeter needs to be sent in for recalibration on a regular basis, do you do that? |
So now we have devolved to anyone who doesn't agree with your subjective opinion is ignorant? WTF do you think you are?
Post modification Kurt was able to get a nice image by eye with my Marquee. Was it as good as if CIR (Craig) calibrated it? Obviously not and Kurt never stated that he could take it to that level. We were testing a variety of changes (and still are) so spending money on a top flight calibration would be pointless at this juncture.
I thought I read somewhere in this useless thread (in a post I believe by Diddern or Andreas) that going strictly by the results of the calibration equipment is a mistake many rookie calibrators make. When CIR worked on my other Marquee a few years ago he used all of his equipment to calibrate to given standards but then followed that up by using his eyes and various video material to make subtle changes to really dial in the image (especially in both dark and high contrast scenes). It's the combination of both that yields a top flight end result. |
1. You can not say that you have had a calibration if it is done by eye, then you call it adjustment. And in your case you had a calibrator, and did some adjustments after, that looked better.
2. After a real pro calibration some times the costumer want more color then that is done in the color adjustment that adjusts all colors some up, its not correct, but can for some look better. And also can for the eye.
3. I also about 6 months ago I changed a tube on a 909 to a new with green c- element and adjusted as good as possible. When finished adjusted as good as I could on a Barco 909 the colors/greyscale. I managed after some e time to get a god result. and if a dark black guy look like a Indian!!!! and a white guy look Asian!!!! something is not right.
That was until a calibrated PJ was tested side by side a x500 JVC. I then understood how far off I was, and had to start again.. But before looking at the JVC ,the Barco 909 looked quit god to me and the owner. I did it the stridsvognen way
4. There will always be some small adjustments after a calibration like controlling black level and where white clip after 16-235 or higher , but if this is set correct first, then you might not need to touch anything at all.
5. To use a calibrator I say yes, but cost some money, but that depends how off your PJ is to the HDTV standard, to see it super clearly. Normally correct settings get the color space CMS almost spot on, On most high end Sony, JVC, Sim lumis and so on. , but greyscale sometimes off and gamma not 100% linear or not correct after what the PJ shows. Gamma 2,4 can be 2,3 and things like that. Also drops in the gamma curve that need to be calibrated. After a calibrating I feel picture more dynamic all the way and better shadow details, clearness, total black level, and skin tones to reference HDTV rec709 D65 and power gamma 2,4-2,3 after your pick.
6. And no need to use bad language to Andreas or other. Right Curt?
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
Gamma is around 2.4
CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Why do you have to call him names?? Why do you have to be so rude?
And how do you know you have a 2.4 gamma if you calibrate by eye?
What he is saying is that your CRT with a correctly setup video level 16-235 will not show black (0 IRE) as 0 because of the green tube will not shut completely down. To make this happen you need to set it up with some black crush.
And about you 2 last questions I have already answered them so it is no need for Diddern (not Dildo) to answer them. |
Thats funny, why cant my green tube shut down.? Have you been peaking into my lenses while i was running a 5% IRE ?
If you read back, and knock your head into a wall a few times you might remember about my cheep meter who wont work for rec 709 calibration.
I still think Dildo should answer the question when i did answer his.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | The next time you guys (Diddern and Andy) are in the states. So if you could make it out to Tim Martin's and check out his Blend Setup. He does it entirely by eye. I guarantee you'll change you mind and never say another stupid word to anyone else about calibrating without equipment. |
This is so stupid! |
There is a very large display and presentation industry here in the states. There have been some amazing people doing wonders with visual display systems. And until you've seen these wonders in action, it would sound as such. But you would be surprised at some of the things that were done with the experienced hands and minds.
But anything new to you sounds stupid, because you're absent of having an open minds
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | The next time you guys (Diddern and Andy) are in the states. So if you could make it out to Tim Martin's and check out his Blend Setup. He does it entirely by eye. I guarantee you'll change you mind and never say another stupid word to anyone else about calibrating without equipment. |
This is so stupid! |
There is a very large display and presentation industry here in the states. There have been some amazing people doing wonders with visual display systems. And until you've seen these wonders in action, it would sound as such. But you would be surprised at some of the things that were done with the experienced hands and minds.
But anything new to you sounds stupid, because you're absent of having an open minds |
Not at all stupid, extremely stupid!! A reference to what?? MY GOD you are amazing.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | The next time you guys (Diddern and Andy) are in the states. So if you could make it out to Tim Martin's and check out his Blend Setup. He does it entirely by eye. I guarantee you'll change you mind and never say another stupid word to anyone else about calibrating without equipment. |
This is so stupid! |
There is a very large display and presentation industry here in the states. There have been some amazing people doing wonders with visual display systems. And until you've seen these wonders in action, it would sound as such. But you would be surprised at some of the things that were done with the experienced hands and minds.
But anything new to you sounds stupid, because you're absent of having an open minds |
I know this, but if you ask anybody serious in commercial cinema, movie production or HT if they get their displays/PJ´s calibrated by eye you will get the same answer from everyone. And it is NO!
To calibrate by eye can look good I admit that, but you can not get close to bt709 without the right equipment.
And the last sentence was that meant for me, and it came from you?? I am confused, I am open minded and like new things and technology, you on the other hand...
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
Gamma is around 2.4
CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Why do you have to call him names?? Why do you have to be so rude?
And how do you know you have a 2.4 gamma if you calibrate by eye?
What he is saying is that your CRT with a correctly setup video level 16-235 will not show black (0 IRE) as 0 because of the green tube will not shut completely down. To make this happen you need to set it up with some black crush.
And about you 2 last questions I have already answered them so it is no need for Diddern (not Dildo) to answer them. |
I agree with this statement. When I was talking to Tom Huffman of Chromapure about the auto calibration I asked if he could add a feature where you could select the amount of time before the next reading just because of what Andreas mentioned above.
You need at least 5-10 seconds before the green phosphor is dim enough on screen for it not to taint the next
lower % white reading. This does not matter if the software reads from 0-100% but there are occasions where the software first reads 100% white then reads 0% white. Also some read from 100-0 for auto calibration. Here is where the problem comes in. All auto cals read from 100-0 IIRC.
Green will always stay lit for some time, Crushing Green helps the CRT image stay black but you loose low detail in the 1-5% white range.
So What I end up doing is elevate the gamma for the low end and bring 0 to 0 via the lumagen luma adjustment.
It is just the inherent nature of the normal Green phosphor. P43 Green does not do this and this is why simulators for flight use it. You can not get a good greyscale with P43 phosphor but you gain better out of black performance than a standard Green tube.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
Gamma is around 2.4
CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Why do you have to call him names?? Why do you have to be so rude?
And how do you know you have a 2.4 gamma if you calibrate by eye?
What he is saying is that your CRT with a correctly setup video level 16-235 will not show black (0 IRE) as 0 because of the green tube will not shut completely down. To make this happen you need to set it up with some black crush.
And about you 2 last questions I have already answered them so it is no need for Diddern (not Dildo) to answer them. |
I agree with this statement. When I was talking to Tom Huffman of Chromapure about the auto calibration I asked if he could add a feature where you could select the amount of time before the next reading just because of what Andreas mentioned above.
You need at least 5-10 seconds before the green phosphor is dim enough on screen for it not to taint the next
lower % white reading. This does not matter if the software reads from 0-100% but there are occasions where the software first reads 100% white then reads 0% white. Also some read from 100-0 for auto calibration. Here is where the problem comes in. All auto cals read from 100-0 IIRC.
Green will always stay lit for some time, Crushing Green helps the CRT image stay black but you loose low detail in the 1-5% white range.
So What I end up doing is elevate the gamma for the low end and bring 0 to 0 via the lumagen luma adjustment.
It is just the inherent nature of the normal Green phosphor. P43 Green does not do this and this is why simulators for flight use it. You can not get a good greyscale with P43 phosphor but you gain better out of black performance than a standard Green tube.
Athanasios |
Thank you Athanasios!
Stridsvognen and MP: It is amazing how the idiot from Noway knows this right??
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | The next time you guys (Diddern and Andy) are in the states. So if you could make it out to Tim Martin's and check out his Blend Setup. He does it entirely by eye. I guarantee you'll change you mind and never say another stupid word to anyone else about calibrating without equipment. |
This is so stupid! |
There is a very large display and presentation industry here in the states. There have been some amazing people doing wonders with visual display systems. And until you've seen these wonders in action, it would sound as such. But you would be surprised at some of the things that were done with the experienced hands and minds.
But anything new to you sounds stupid, because you're absent of having an open minds |
I know this, but if you ask anybody serious in commercial cinema, movie production or HT if they get their displays/PJ´s calibrated by eye you will get the same answer from everyone. And it is NO!
To calibrate by eye can look good I admit that, but you can not get close to bt709 without the right equipment.
And the last sentence was that meant for me, and it came from you?? I am confused, I am open minded and like new things and technology, you on the other hand... |
I see you're being a little more open minded here, but what we've been trying to tell you is that in the Commercial display arena, the eye ball plays a very important part in the finals. And that would require a lot of unique experience to know what to do when the meter says yes, and the screen says something very different. It happens all the time, when you're not in a closed and compact room (HT) where the lighting is completely controlled, but yet you have a technical goal to accomplish.
The attached photo is one of my favorites. my tool bag should be familiar to some. It is a three projector (DLP) rear projection blend. It is at that point already color calibrated and edge blended by yours truly. And it was confirmed to specs. about 30% of the calibration was done by eye.
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Last edited by mp20748 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
1 Gamma is around 2.4
2 CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
3 perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
4 Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
5 So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Thanks for kind words stridsvognen strange Curt does not BANN you are a grown boy.
1. Around 2,4 how do you know?
2. You answered to something else. Have you ever thinker bell that the color triangle on a barco will not make rec 709 without color filters? Ohhh I forgot you do this by eye so not important........ sorry.
3. Tell me how you know
4. Andreas have answered this. Nothing is perfect.
5. answer Nothing is perfect.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | The next time you guys (Diddern and Andy) are in the states. So if you could make it out to Tim Martin's and check out his Blend Setup. He does it entirely by eye. I guarantee you'll change you mind and never say another stupid word to anyone else about calibrating without equipment. |
This is so stupid! |
There is a very large display and presentation industry here in the states. There have been some amazing people doing wonders with visual display systems. And until you've seen these wonders in action, it would sound as such. But you would be surprised at some of the things that were done with the experienced hands and minds.
But anything new to you sounds stupid, because you're absent of having an open minds |
I know this, but if you ask anybody serious in commercial cinema, movie production or HT if they get their displays/PJ´s calibrated by eye you will get the same answer from everyone. And it is NO!
To calibrate by eye can look good I admit that, but you can not get close to bt709 without the right equipment.
And the last sentence was that meant for me, and it came from you?? I am confused, I am open minded and like new things and technology, you on the other hand... |
I see you're being a little more open minded here, but what we've been trying to tell you is that in the Commercial display arena, the eye ball plays a very important part in the finals. And that would require a lot of unique experience to know what to do when the meter says yes, and the screen says something very different. It happens all the time, when you're not in a closed and compact room (HT) where the lighting is completely controlled, but yet you have a technical goal to accomplish.
The attached photo is one of my favorites. my tool bag should be familiar to some. It is a three projector (DLP) rear projection blend. It is at that point already color calibrated and edge blended by your truly. And it was conveyed to specs. about 30% of the calibration was done by eye. |
What are this PJ used for? Movies or what?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
Gamma is around 2.4
CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Why do you have to call him names?? Why do you have to be so rude?
And how do you know you have a 2.4 gamma if you calibrate by eye?
What he is saying is that your CRT with a correctly setup video level 16-235 will not show black (0 IRE) as 0 because of the green tube will not shut completely down. To make this happen you need to set it up with some black crush.
And about you 2 last questions I have already answered them so it is no need for Diddern (not Dildo) to answer them. |
I agree with this statement. When I was talking to Tom Huffman of Chromapure about the auto calibration I asked if he could add a feature where you could select the amount of time before the next reading just because of what Andreas mentioned above.
You need at least 5-10 seconds before the green phosphor is dim enough on screen for it not to taint the next
lower % white reading. This does not matter if the software reads from 0-100% but there are occasions where the software first reads 100% white then reads 0% white. Also some read from 100-0 for auto calibration. Here is where the problem comes in. All auto cals read from 100-0 IIRC.
Green will always stay lit for some time, Crushing Green helps the CRT image stay black but you loose low detail in the 1-5% white range.
So What I end up doing is elevate the gamma for the low end and bring 0 to 0 via the lumagen luma adjustment.
It is just the inherent nature of the normal Green phosphor. P43 Green does not do this and this is why simulators for flight use it. You can not get a good greyscale with P43 phosphor but you gain better out of black performance than a standard Green tube.
Athanasios |
+1
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
1 Gamma is around 2.4
2 CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
3 perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
4 Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
5 So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Thanks for kind words stridsvognen strange Curt does not BANN you are a grown boy.
1. Around 2,4 how do you know?
2. You answered to something else. Have you ever thinker bell that the color triangle on a barco will not make rec 709 without color filters? Ohhh I forgot you do this by eye so not important........ sorry.
3. Tell me how you know
4. Andreas have answered this. Nothing is perfect.
5. answer Nothing is perfect. |
WTF are talking about a Barco here..? Who run a 9" crt without at least a green filter. Its standard mounted in the Marquee.
How do i know my gamma.. Umm if i let you guess 3 times do you think its possible you will guess right.?
So your CMS is not perfect.. How do that effect the image when displaying high resolution movie content like skin tones ?
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: |
What are this PJ used for? Movies or what? |
They were able to show movies on all three screens at once, and they could even show various different images almost anywhere on the screen. Sort of like a PIP display setup
It was powered by a Christie Digital Spyder (40K) processor
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
1 Gamma is around 2.4
2 CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
3 perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
4 Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
5 So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Thanks for kind words stridsvognen strange Curt does not BANN you are a grown boy.
1. Around 2,4 how do you know?
2. You answered to something else. Have you ever thinker bell that the color triangle on a barco will not make rec 709 without color filters? Ohhh I forgot you do this by eye so not important........ sorry.
3. Tell me how you know
4. Andreas have answered this. Nothing is perfect.
5. answer Nothing is perfect. |
WTF are talking about a Barco here..? Who run a 9" crt without at least a green filter. Its standard mounted in the Marquee.
How do i know my gamma.. Umm if i let you guess 3 times do you think its possible you will guess right.?
So your CMS is not perfect.. How do that effect the image when displaying high resolution movie content like skin tones ? |
You have said your CRT is not perfect also, how do you know it displays anything correct?
And with by eye calibration it can not by far.
And also read Nashou66 post about the green tube.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: |
What are this PJ used for? Movies or what? |
They were able to show movies on all three screens at once, and they could even show various different images almost anywhere on the screen. Sort of like a PIP display setup
It was powered by a Christie Digital Spyder (40K) processor |
And with these calibrated by eye you prove what? Do you have the calibration report?
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
1 Gamma is around 2.4
2 CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
3 perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
4 Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
5 So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.? |
Thanks for kind words stridsvognen strange Curt does not BANN you are a grown boy.
1. Around 2,4 how do you know?
2. You answered to something else. Have you ever thinker bell that the color triangle on a barco will not make rec 709 without color filters? Ohhh I forgot you do this by eye so not important........ sorry.
3. Tell me how you know
4. Andreas have answered this. Nothing is perfect.
5. answer Nothing is perfect. |
WTF are talking about a Barco here..? Who run a 9" crt without at least a green filter. Its standard mounted in the Marquee.
How do i know my gamma.. Umm if i let you guess 3 times do you think its possible you will guess right.?
So your CMS is not perfect.. How do that effect the image when displaying high resolution movie content like skin tones ? |
You have said your CRT is not perfect also, how do you know it displays anything correct?
And with by eye calibration it can not by far.
And also read Nashou66 post about the green tube. |
So your CMS is not perfect.. How do that effect the image when displaying high resolution movie content like skin tones ?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: |
What are this PJ used for? Movies or what? |
They were able to show movies on all three screens at once, and they could even show various different images almost anywhere on the screen. Sort of like a PIP display setup
It was powered by a Christie Digital Spyder (40K) processor |
Film material blueray or other
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