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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | There is content oh yes, but not for Europe yet. I live there so "There's no 4k/UHD content right now" you are right.
But in USA its possible to buy. |
I have news for you... Unless you buy the VW600 or VW1000, there's no content here, either. Even if you have the Sony, I'd hardly call a few dozen movies anything to get excited about.
| Diddern wrote: | | I listen, and learn from people I know and have no interests in brand just picture, and also work with this everyday. |
So do I. I also see for myself, and wait to make judgements and post opinions until I do.
| Diddern wrote: | | About the JVC I think its best to wait until the product is complete, not talk about a beta version. I'm Shure it was good, but its have very similar picture as the models today, but I want to wait and se the final series when its possible. |
It's hardware and it's apparently shipping to customers next month (like always), so the product on display at CEDIA was hardly "beta".
| Diddern wrote: | 4K material on the new JVC,,,,
1. Two HDMI to the JVC to manage to play 4K material downscale to 1080P content on HDMI1.4. |
Stop saying "downscaling to 1080p"; it's really not a fair representation, and it's not how eShift works. It's truly not 4k, but it's also not 1080p, either.
| Diddern wrote: | | 2. NO 4K ship 1080P ship |
I don't understand what you're saying here.
| Diddern wrote: | | 3. E-shift make it look like higher resolution structure like but not 4K |
Having seen it, it looks a lot more like 4k than 1080p. I saw it on a very large screen, and it was very impressive. Clearly, it's not true 4k, but I can tell you I saw it first-hand and it looked very good.
| Diddern wrote: | | 4.When content come available you can NOT play it because of HDMI2.0p |
But, there's nothing out now, or for the foreseeable future, so I'm not sure how big of a concern this is. Maybe some will have dual HDMI 1.4 outputs. Won't 2160p/24 will work fine via HDMI 1.4?
| Diddern wrote: | | 5. But you can play 1080P with e-shift and get a better resolution feeling out of a 1080p projector with 4K from a computer or maybe the RedRay player not shure . This projector has nothing to do with real 4K. |
Like I said, it's an intermediate step. Considering that an RS49 is $4999 MSRP, it's a SIGNIFICANTLY lower-cost option than a Sony, currently the only other UHD projection option. I'm not even remotely in the market for a $15,000 projector, but I certainly may be interested in a RS49. So, for buyers like me, it certainly does have something to do with 4k, as it's the only way I could display a 4k source - if there were one - in anything better-looking than 1080p.
SC |
1. Yes 1080p nothing else. Nothing to do with real 4K............... Read about the e-shift how 2 HDMI 1080p make it look similar to up to 4K
2. Missed a (,) NO 4K ship,,,,,,,,,,, 1080P ship again hehe
3. I have seen it and yes and it looks better but have nothing to do with 4K, that it looks that way is up to you.
4. Format for UHD then 4K and 8K will work on hdmi2.0 but yes now with 1.4 works up to 2160x2160 30p and if am not wrong you can use a redray still.
But where do you get the material. And what's the use. You can not use Sonys player. And not use the format that's coming.
5. You get what you can afford, and your PJ is much picture for the prize. And on that I agree.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | I haven't seen eShift 2 or 3 yet, only the original eShift on my RS55. Although I was pleased with significant decrease in pixel structure and complete lack of SDE, I eventually turned it off because of the visible ringing that it induced with many types of material, which I found to be quite annoying. I hope that was reduced with eShift 2 or 3, but as they say there is no such thing as a free lunch. If I had a projector that was 4 or 5 years old, an RS57 or 67 would be an easy upgrade to jump to; as it stands I think my RS55 will take me all the way out until the whole 4K thing is finalized and material is widely available. |
That will work fine, and also in a more reachable price level. To upgrade your RS55 now in my opinion is not worth it, wait and see if JVC comes out with a 4K maybe next year. These new 2013 models for me is the same like before, just with some modification. I'm Shure that JVC saw that the race against Sony this year was lost.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | There is content oh yes, but not for Europe yet. I live there so "There's no 4k/UHD content right now" you are right.
But in USA its possible to buy. |
I have news for you... Unless you buy the VW600 or VW1000, there's no content here, either. Even if you have the Sony, I'd hardly call a few dozen movies anything to get excited about.
| Diddern wrote: | | I listen, and learn from people I know and have no interests in brand just picture, and also work with this everyday. |
So do I. I also see for myself, and wait to make judgements and post opinions until I do.
| Diddern wrote: | | About the JVC I think its best to wait until the product is complete, not talk about a beta version. I'm Shure it was good, but its have very similar picture as the models today, but I want to wait and se the final series when its possible. |
It's hardware and it's apparently shipping to customers next month (like always), so the product on display at CEDIA was hardly "beta".
SC |
I have the VW1000 and that's why I can say stuff about this. Had it for almost 2 years, and cant play this Sony server before I get the upgrade to VW1100 and that its opened for Europe, and what I feel is that BD on my VW1000 is as close to 4K you can get. I have seen native 4K home and compared the same film on BD Then BD up scaled from 1080p to 4K. So for me that is good enough, but I like to have 4K native, and when I can why not?
That's good that you listen to other people also So do I
And about the JVC that were shown did you ask if it was a complete product? My friend did and got the answer from JVC that it is Beta model not complete product. Listen to me now like you say you do? Maybe the JVC dude lied, then I am sorry.
I like the Blacks of JVC and have tried almost all their models at my cinema. And comparing side by side, and I se the positive and the negative sides.
No reason to be hostile.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | And about the JVC that were shown did you ask if it was a complete product? My friend did and got the answer from JVC that it is Beta model not complete product. Listen to me now like you say you do? Maybe the JVC dude lied, then I am sorry. |
Your friend was pretty close to correct - JVC almost always shows pre-production models this time of year - they seem to fall somewhere between beta and production in terms of bugs, feature sets, and how polished they are. Usually the first finalized production models don't get released until some time between late November and early January. In the past, the differences between the CEDIA models and the production models have been minor; with new HDMI and HDCP specs becoming available at the time that the new JVC's were demoed - and with 4K clearly being the "next big thing" - it's anyone's guess what changes we'll see between now and release time.
| Diddern wrote: | | I like the Blacks of JVC and have tried almost all their models at my cinema. And comparing side by side, and I se the positive and the negative sides. |
Agreed, I love my RS55, imperfections and all. Having seen plenty of $15K-$25K one-chip DLPs, I can say that there are aspects to those machines that totally blow the JVC away. Their sharpness, lack of misconvergence (not that the JVCs have problems in this area, but they're 3-chip machines, and no 3-chip will ever have perfect convergence), lack of image noise, light output, and high quality optics definitely lend a much more "crisp" look than my RS55 does. I wish I could combine the 55's black levels, lack of rainbows, and almost imperceptible SDE with the positives of a high-quality DLP - that would be one hell of a projector! I think the holy grail of displays will be a roll-able OLED sheet that one could install in place of the screen in their theater. Until then, we all make due with the positives and negatives of our chosen display technologies.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | There is content oh yes, but not for Europe yet. I live there so "There's no 4k/UHD content right now" you are right.
But in USA its possible to buy. |
I have news for you... Unless you buy the VW600 or VW1000, there's no content here, either. Even if you have the Sony, I'd hardly call a few dozen movies anything to get excited about.
| Diddern wrote: | | I listen, and learn from people I know and have no interests in brand just picture, and also work with this everyday. |
So do I. I also see for myself, and wait to make judgements and post opinions until I do.
| Diddern wrote: | | About the JVC I think its best to wait until the product is complete, not talk about a beta version. I'm Shure it was good, but its have very similar picture as the models today, but I want to wait and se the final series when its possible. |
It's hardware and it's apparently shipping to customers next month (like always), so the product on display at CEDIA was hardly "beta".
| Diddern wrote: | 4K material on the new JVC,,,,
1. Two HDMI to the JVC to manage to play 4K material downscale to 1080P content on HDMI1.4. |
Stop saying "downscaling to 1080p"; it's really not a fair representation, and it's not how eShift works. It's truly not 4k, but it's also not 1080p, either.
| Diddern wrote: | | 2. NO 4K ship 1080P ship |
I don't understand what you're saying here.
| Diddern wrote: | | 3. E-shift make it look like higher resolution structure like but not 4K |
Having seen it, it looks a lot more like 4k than 1080p. I saw it on a very large screen, and it was very impressive. Clearly, it's not true 4k, but I can tell you I saw it first-hand and it looked very good.
| Diddern wrote: | | 4.When content come available you can NOT play it because of HDMI2.0p |
But, there's nothing out now, or for the foreseeable future, so I'm not sure how big of a concern this is. Maybe some will have dual HDMI 1.4 outputs. Won't 2160p/24 will work fine via HDMI 1.4?
| Diddern wrote: | | 5. But you can play 1080P with e-shift and get a better resolution feeling out of a 1080p projector with 4K from a computer or maybe the RedRay player not shure . This projector has nothing to do with real 4K. |
Like I said, it's an intermediate step. Considering that an RS49 is $4999 MSRP, it's a SIGNIFICANTLY lower-cost option than a Sony, currently the only other UHD projection option. I'm not even remotely in the market for a $15,000 projector, but I certainly may be interested in a RS49. So, for buyers like me, it certainly does have something to do with 4k, as it's the only way I could display a 4k source - if there were one - in anything better-looking than 1080p.
SC |
I have seen E shift 1 and 2 , but not E Shift 3 and from what I hear this years is not much different. And the JVC E Shift system has nothing to do with 4K other that they are trying to simulate 4K and this years model can accept a 4K source and downcale it to 1080p and E Shift it up again. But it is still a 1080p chip projector!
I have had the Sony VW1000 now for almost 2 years and have watched 750h of upscaled 1080p and some native 4K and I can tell you that there is not much of a difference between the two. And I can say to you that the E Shift system does a great job, but it has nothing to do with 4K. And the Sony VW1000 is a much better projector than any of the E Shift models from JVC including this years model is clear and true. I will test this years JVC E Shift models side by side against the VW1000 and see, but I know the outcome of that test and the VW1000 will still be the best 2D HT projector on the market. My VW1000 will then be upgraded to to VW1100.
And to say the 4K cinema projector throws a better picture than the VW1000 is bull****! In a HT the VW1000 will be alot better, and in a comercial theater the JVC will be much better, they can simply not be compared. The lightoutput of the cinema JVC will be to much for a normal HT and the blacklevel wil be light grey and the VW1000 will not have enough light to fill up an big cinema screen. (It can fill up to 4m wide with good results, but not bigger.)
Last edited by Andreas21 on Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | And about the JVC that were shown did you ask if it was a complete product? My friend did and got the answer from JVC that it is Beta model not complete product. Listen to me now like you say you do? Maybe the JVC dude lied, then I am sorry. |
Your friend was pretty close to correct - JVC almost always shows pre-production models this time of year - they seem to fall somewhere between beta and production in terms of bugs, feature sets, and how polished they are. Usually the first finalized production models don't get released until some time between late November and early January. In the past, the differences between the CEDIA models and the production models have been minor; with new HDMI and HDCP specs becoming available at the time that the new JVC's were demoed - and with 4K clearly being the "next big thing" - it's anyone's guess what changes we'll see between now and release time.
| Diddern wrote: | | I like the Blacks of JVC and have tried almost all their models at my cinema. And comparing side by side, and I se the positive and the negative sides. |
Agreed, I love my RS55, imperfections and all. Having seen plenty of $15K-$25K one-chip DLPs, I can say that there are aspects to those machines that totally blow the JVC away. Their sharpness, lack of misconvergence (not that the JVCs have problems in this area, but they're 3-chip machines, and no 3-chip will ever have perfect convergence), lack of image noise, light output, and high quality optics definitely lend a much more "crisp" look than my RS55 does. I wish I could combine the 55's black levels, lack of rainbows, and almost imperceptible SDE with the positives of a high-quality DLP - that would be one hell of a projector! I think the holy grail of displays will be a roll-able OLED sheet that one could install in place of the screen in their theater. Until then, we all make due with the positives and negatives of our chosen display technologies. |
If you take the positives from a JVC and high end DLP you will have a very good projector and the VW1000 has many of these positives and is the closest you get to that at the moment.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | And about the JVC that were shown did you ask if it was a complete product? My friend did and got the answer from JVC that it is Beta model not complete product. Listen to me now like you say you do? Maybe the JVC dude lied, then I am sorry. |
Your friend was pretty close to correct - JVC almost always shows pre-production models this time of year - they seem to fall somewhere between beta and production in terms of bugs, feature sets, and how polished they are. Usually the first finalized production models don't get released until some time between late November and early January. In the past, the differences between the CEDIA models and the production models have been minor; with new HDMI and HDCP specs becoming available at the time that the new JVC's were demoed - and with 4K clearly being the "next big thing" - it's anyone's guess what changes we'll see between now and release time.
| Diddern wrote: | | I like the Blacks of JVC and have tried almost all their models at my cinema. And comparing side by side, and I se the positive and the negative sides. |
Agreed, I love my RS55, imperfections and all. Having seen plenty of $15K-$25K one-chip DLPs, I can say that there are aspects to those machines that totally blow the JVC away. Their sharpness, lack of misconvergence (not that the JVCs have problems in this area, but they're 3-chip machines, and no 3-chip will ever have perfect convergence), lack of image noise, light output, and high quality optics definitely lend a much more "crisp" look than my RS55 does. I wish I could combine the 55's black levels, lack of rainbows, and almost imperceptible SDE with the positives of a high-quality DLP - that would be one hell of a projector! I think the holy grail of displays will be a roll-able OLED sheet that one could install in place of the screen in their theater. Until then, we all make due with the positives and negatives of our chosen display technologies. |
He said pre-production models, but did not remember hehe
About converges I will say that the vw1000 is very close to 100% see picture taken form my iphone4 from 15-17cm
Remember that the sharpness are off on the picture compared real.
But OLED 100 inch nice nice nice but price holy GOD.
Sorry pic is back to fast fingers on my phone.
Last edited by Diddern on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Didern, where did your picture go?
Nashou |
To fast on my fingers hehe its back
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
And to say the 4K cinema projector throws a better picture than the VW1000 is bull****! In a HT the VW1000 will be alot better, and in a comercial theater the JVC will be much better, they can simply not be compared. The lightoutput of the cinema JVC will be to much for a normal HT and the blacklevel wil be light grey and the VW1000 will not have enough light to fill up an big cinema screen. (It can fill up to 4m wide with good results, but not bigger.) |
Have you seen both? I thought the Sony was nice, but was not blown away. I think the JVC could do well on a smaller HT screen. There are a couple of people on AVS who use DLP cinema pjs with great success. It would be nice to see a comparison between the two on a 15 foot wide screen, but it will probably never happen.
Lets be honest, you and Diddern are biased towards the Sony. That is understandable and fine to me.
About 4k pjs in general., I am still not convinced that upscaled 4k is that much better on either the native 4ks or the eshift. If you sit closer than 1 screen width then there is an advantage of fill factor and smoothness, but that is about it. Until there is 4k content and a 4k standard, I am will wait on buying a 4k display.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
And to say the 4K cinema projector throws a better picture than the VW1000 is bull****! In a HT the VW1000 will be alot better, and in a comercial theater the JVC will be much better, they can simply not be compared. The lightoutput of the cinema JVC will be to much for a normal HT and the blacklevel wil be light grey and the VW1000 will not have enough light to fill up an big cinema screen. (It can fill up to 4m wide with good results, but not bigger.) |
Have you seen both? I thought the Sony was nice, but was not blown away. I think the JVC could do well on a smaller HT screen. There are a couple of people on AVS who use DLP cinema pjs with great success. It would be nice to see a comparison between the two on a 15 foot wide screen, but it will probably never happen.
Lets be honest, you and Diddern are biased towards the Sony. That is understandable and fine to me.
About 4k pjs in general., I am still not convinced that upscaled 4k is that much better on either the native 4ks or the eshift. If you sit closer than 1 screen width then there is an advantage of fill factor and smoothness, but that is about it. Until there is 4k content and a 4k standard, I am will wait on buying a 4k display. |
No, but I have seen different Sony´s 4K and Christie top model 4K cinema projectors and I have seen the VW1000 on a 5m wide screen in a small commercial cinema. And here in a CRT forum where blacklevel is the most important thing a Cinema projector is never going to be good enough, the blacklevel is not even dark grey. And the on/off contrast is low, if you want to pay 100000+ $ for the JVC and even more for Sony and Christie, be my guest.
There is more to the Sony VW1000 than just resolution compared to a normal 1080p projector. I have tested the VW1000 against alot of projectors over the last two years including the Sim2 Lumis 3DS and M.150 and I prefer the VW1000 every time. The reason I test like this (and I always test side by side) is because I want the best for the money I am willing to pay, and the day there comes a projector that is better than the VW1000 and I can afford it I will buy it. The name on the projector to me is not important, but now I prefer the VW1000 (soon VW1100) over any other projector I have seen including cinema projectors. And I am looking forward to the day I can say something is better than the VW1000 as I like new and better things to play with. 
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I see now that the JVC 4K model is more of a home cinema projctor with good on/off contrast and "only" 3500 lumens, So I might have to moderate my statements about it. But as I say I have not seen it and it is way over my budget so I don`t want to see it! 
edit:
I see now that this JVC is an "old" model with HDMI 1.3 and a Xenon lamp and "only" 300:1 ANSI contrast and a pricetag of 175000$ so this would be a stupid buy even if I could afford it. I find it strange that JVC have not included and modified these 4K chips in a more affordable HT projector than the DLA-RS400U??
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Have you seen both? I thought the Sony was nice, but was not blown away. I think the JVC could do well on a smaller HT screen. There are a couple of people on AVS who use DLP cinema pjs with great success. It would be nice to see a comparison between the two on a 15 foot wide screen, but it will probably never happen.
Lets be honest, you and Diddern are biased towards the Sony. That is understandable and fine to me.
About 4k pjs in general., I am still not convinced that upscaled 4k is that much better on either the native 4ks or the eshift. If you sit closer than 1 screen width then there is an advantage of fill factor and smoothness, but that is about it. Until there is 4k content and a 4k standard, I am will wait on buying a 4k display.[/quote]
Hello mister S H
I do not think that this 4K from JVC will have anything to show together with a Vw1000 not even the vw500.
Everything I believe is better on both. Even the pixelgap 0,2 on the Sony is better.
ANSI contrast better, much better contrast and the 500 and the 1000 (1100)everything that 4K is ready to be so far"
Lumen higher on jvc so more light that can be positive, but also negative.
I like the picture I have now and have not seen anything even close.
So when I do find something better in my eyes it's goodby Sony. But the prize have to be with in range.
To be totally honest with you about upp scaled 1080p to 4K it's very close but native is maybe some better.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | I do not think that this 4K from JVC will have anything to show together with a Vw1000 not even the vw500.
Everything I believe is better on both. Even the pixelgap 0,2 on the Sony is better.
ANSI contrast better, much better contrast and the 500 and the 1000 (1100)everything that 4K is ready to be so far"
Lumen higher on jvc so more light that can be positive, but also negative. |
Why isn't price part of this discussion? A Porsche Cayman doesn't perform as well as a Ferrari 458, but then it costs about a quarter of the price, so nobody expects it to perform like a 458.
By the same token, the X900/RS67 - costs less than even the cheapest Sony 4k machine - the VW600. The X500R/RS49 is ONE THIRD the price of the VW600, so of COURSE they're not directly comparable!
So, no - the JVC's aren't true 4k. But, you can buy an RS67 and have money left over for a speakers and an amp, compared to a VW1000. Or a nice used car.
It makes no more sense to badmouth the JVC for not being true 4k than it does to badmouth the VW1000 for being too expensive.
From what I've seen, they're all good projectors, at their respective price points, each with pluses and minuses.
SC
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Why isn't price part of this discussion? A Porsche Cayman doesn't perform as well as a Ferrari 458, but then it costs about a quarter of the price, so nobody expects it to perform like a 458.
By the same token, the X900/RS67 - costs less than even the cheapest Sony 4k machine - the VW600. The X500R/RS49 is ONE THIRD the price of the VW600, so of COURSE they're not directly comparable!
So, no - the JVC's aren't true 4k. But, you can buy an RS67 and have money left over for a speakers and an amp, compared to a VW1000. Or a nice used car.
It makes no more sense to badmouth the JVC for not being true 4k than it does to badmouth the VW1000 for being too expensive.
From what I've seen, they're all good projectors, at their respective price points, each with pluses and minuses.
SC[/quote]
Price? 4K or 1080P? , We talk about the best picture possible today in "my eyes" for home use.
Best for the "money" and picture quality today is a Sony HW50 or HW55 or a JVC X500. No use to pay more to get a x700 or x900. or a Sony VW600 or VW1000.
You buy what you can afford.
Comparable in picture quality all projectors are. You buy what you can afford.
But if I would consider a X900 or a VW600 both expensive!!! NO DOUTH what so ever. A VW600, its better all the way.
Next year it maybe be the opposite if something is visible better. Even if it is a 4K 8K or 1080P.
Sony projectors this year in my opinion after many tests side by side is the clear clear winner with big margin against JVC in total 2D picture and also 3D. I have no interests in any brand what so ever, just best picture possible to my affordable price.
A friend of mine have a Ferrari but have a VW50 that is up to him.
""and have money left over for a speakers and an amp, compared to a VW1000. Or a nice used car.""
100% correct but if you want to keep up and hunt for the Best it costs. 
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Guys... Its all about the tubes... Not the lamps..
Eisemann-Theater Simulation Grade Tubes better than VW1000ES
Just wait and see.. Soon we wil see Greg prove it, and blow all competition off the market.. CRT is back..
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I am sorry guys, but you two are biased. Again that is fine, but you two keep saying the Sony is better in every metric. Looking over at Sound and Vision testing, I see the Sony is only pulling 2300 to 1 on/off cr. With the DI engaged, it shoots up to 150k to 1 on/off cr. I know Sony has the best DI, but a lot of people prefer native on/off cr. I believe the cinema JVC is speced at 10k to 1 on/off cr and that looked about right from watching the demo material. The consumer JVCs are 30k to 50k to 1 on/off cr. With the new DI, one could be pretty mild with it and still get better on/off than the Sony.
Is the cinema JVC overkill? Probably, but price independent I would have to see the JVC, 4k DLPs and the Sony in a controlled environment to make a determination which I would prefer.
With price/performance in the equation, I would go for the new JVCs every time. Of course, I have a Sony G90 so I guess that is my poison.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-vpl-vw1000es-4k-sxrd-3d-projector-take-2-ht-labs-measures
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/jvc-dla-x55r-3d-d-ila-projector-ht-labs-measures
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | I am sorry guys, but you two are biased. Again that is fine, but you two keep saying the Sony is better in every metric. Looking over at Sound and Vision testing, I see the Sony is only pulling 2300 to 1 on/off cr. With the DI engaged, it shoots up to 150k to 1 on/off cr. I know Sony has the best DI, but a lot of people prefer native on/off cr. I believe the cinema JVC is speced at 10k to 1 on/off cr and that looked about right from watching the demo material. The consumer JVCs are 30k to 50k to 1 on/off cr. With the new DI, one could be pretty mild with it and still get better on/off than the Sony.
Is the cinema JVC overkill? Probably, but price independent I would have to see the JVC, 4k DLPs and the Sony in a controlled environment to make a determination which I would prefer.
With price/performance in the equation, I would go for the new JVCs every time. Of course, I have a Sony G90 so I guess that is my poison.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-vpl-vw1000es-4k-sxrd-3d-projector-take-2-ht-labs-measures
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/jvc-dla-x55r-3d-d-ila-projector-ht-labs-measures |
The picture shown on the wall is important when I see it, not lab tests
Why you have a JVC ""maybe!!!"", you have not tested anything else side by side in your home theater I believe just listen to what you read and hear. I have seen that dla-x55r side by side with Epson, the HW50and, vw95, JVCx35 and vw1000, and just the hw50 total in my test also more people present clear favorite the hw50. But you have not tested this have you? only show lab lab lab. But still both dam good
If you mean am based , what a bout you JVC!! based hehe. I even say that brand do not matter here only picture, I will hunt the best. And in 2013 its clear, winner brand Sony.
"people prefer native on/off cr". The vw1000 does it similar to a CRT when shut down and you like that? The only one I have seen in the digital world. Total darkness not anything dark grey.
And you have to use iris on vw1000 on autofull and also better lab tests.. Not off like I think this test. Then so ""high contrast" that cant be measured.
When ansicontrast is bad,,,,, does not matter if you have great on off..
I watch movies and I have not seen anything even close to the picture the vw1000 provides yet.
Trust me I let you know when I do.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | I am sorry guys, but you two are biased. Again that is fine, but you two keep saying the Sony is better in every metric. Looking over at Sound and Vision testing, I see the Sony is only pulling 2300 to 1 on/off cr. With the DI engaged, it shoots up to 150k to 1 on/off cr. I know Sony has the best DI, but a lot of people prefer native on/off cr. I believe the cinema JVC is speced at 10k to 1 on/off cr and that looked about right from watching the demo material. The consumer JVCs are 30k to 50k to 1 on/off cr. With the new DI, one could be pretty mild with it and still get better on/off than the Sony.
Is the cinema JVC overkill? Probably, but price independent I would have to see the JVC, 4k DLPs and the Sony in a controlled environment to make a determination which I would prefer.
With price/performance in the equation, I would go for the new JVCs every time. Of course, I have a Sony G90 so I guess that is my poison.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-vpl-vw1000es-4k-sxrd-3d-projector-take-2-ht-labs-measures
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/jvc-dla-x55r-3d-d-ila-projector-ht-labs-measures |
The test you are refering to is not right, the VW1000 measures about 18-20000:1 without the iris on and up to 900000:1 with the iris at auto full (this is according to Cine4home). My calibrator says with the iris on it is impossible to measure the contrast, but with the iris off it measures about 20000:1. Sony HW50 measures about 7000:1 with the iris off so I think your statement and the test is complely off. And what you are forgetting here is ANSI contrast/silmuntanious contrast and that is as important or even more important than on/off and here the Sony VW1000 measures about 600:1 and the 175000$ JVC about 300:1 according to JVC a good CRT about 100:1. The consumer line about 350:1 whitout E-shift and below 200:1 with E-shift. The silmontanious contrast combined with on/off is what makes up the dynamics of the picture and in most scenes the VW1000 is alot more dynamic/3D feeling than the JVC´s. And we must not forget motion, brightness, resolution+++ the VW1000 is alot better than the JVC´s. The only thing the JVC´s is better on is absolute black, but when the Sony has the iris on the Sony is alot better there also, and we always use the iris on the Sony because it is one of the best irises on the market and it is undetecteble
I doubt you have ever seen the VW1000 when you belive the 2300:1 measurements, and when you claim that we are biased. I find the most biased people is internet or magazine rewievers as they have to follow the site or magazine politics and sponsors. I don´t care what the label on my projector says as I am only after the best that my budget can buy and right now it is the VW1000 if it was a JVC X55 I would be really happy as this would save me a whole lot of money.
And as you say the only way you can see what you prefer is to see them all in a controlled enviroment. That is exactly what Diddern and I am doing, we always test side by side in my or Didderns batcave with black walls ans ceiling and no reflections. And the last 2 years testing against the VW1000 with the top JVC´s, Sim2 and modded CRT the VW1000 is the best by far in 2D with blu ray as the source.
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