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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
You are talking trash about the VW1000/1100 here all the time how bad the picture is on that machine and since it is a 4K machine it has to be crap as long as it is fed a 1080p source. And you are doing the same now with the X500.
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Show me where I spoke negative about the JVC? |
My screenshots are from my JVC, and you clearly said your CRT would wipe the floor with all the projectors I mentioned earlier.
To find the post would take to much time...
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: |
About MTF on a 909 CRT i know it's about 30-50 on 1080P |
On a CRT the MTF would be much better that faster the video chain of course. And in comparison to Greg's I know nothing about. But I can put an 300mhz video chain my my Marquee, and for sure that would GREATLY improve on the MTF (and you can confirm this with Scott @ VDC).
I've had quite a few experts comment that my projector must have very good MTF. I've never measured it nor find it necessary to do so.
For an analog chain, bandwidth and Speed would be the markers. I have a video chain that I can install in my Marquee that has a flatness (not -3db) bandwidth near 160mhz -- meaning it's a super fast video chain that will surely have a higher MTF |
Please post a picture of the vertcal lines 1:1 with all tubes on , and if you get the chance measure the MTF. I will be surpriced if it is higher than 50%.  |
Already done... no need to keep doing it just because someone ask. And it was done at 300mhz with all three tubes ON..
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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MP,
I was referencing El Topo's original post back on page 48 or so. It was the post that bumped the thread from last year.
I have no knowledge of the Sony internal scaler. You would have to ask your buddy Haflich, since he has a 1100. IIRC Teranex was and I think still is considered the best scaler out there. Black Magic has brought the price down considerably from a decade ago to under $4k. I think Deja Vu on AVS uses one to convert 2D to 3D. Also, Glimmie on AVS uses one to upconvert all his non-hd source material.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I forgot to mention. It was Sony that said their internal scaler in their SRXT615 sucked.
And after that, the company never sold another one of them.. 
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | I have heard this before. That my CRT setup will wipe the floor with any digital, and I donīt belive it as I have seen different CRT against different digitals and the latest was a 909 against a X500 and the X500 wiped the floor with the 909.
I can see it as an opinion, but I am not allowed to say I find my digitals to be superior to you belowed CRTīs without being told to leave by grumpy old men.  |
You guys pop up here like Paul Revere with an urgency, thinking you're bringing us good news about something we know nothing about. We are into CRT by choice, and it's not like we're dumbfounded or have our heads buried in the sand. It's just we prefer to stay with the technology, and that should be OK, and that's why we don't invade a digital forum with our passion for CRT.
None of the projectors mentioned is competition material... |
Here is one example...
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: |
About MTF on a 909 CRT i know it's about 30-50 on 1080P |
On a CRT the MTF would be much better that faster the video chain of course. And in comparison to Greg's I know nothing about. But I can put an 300mhz video chain my my Marquee, and for sure that would GREATLY improve on the MTF (and you can confirm this with Scott @ VDC).
I've had quite a few experts comment that my projector must have very good MTF. I've never measured it nor find it necessary to do so.
For an analog chain, bandwidth and Speed would be the markers. I have a video chain that I can install in my Marquee that has a flatness (not -3db) bandwidth near 160mhz -- meaning it's a super fast video chain that will surely have a higher MTF |
Please post a picture of the vertcal lines 1:1 with all tubes on , and if you get the chance measure the MTF. I will be surpriced if it is higher than 50%. |
Already done... no need to keep doing it just because someone ask. And it was done at 300mhz with all three tubes ON.. |
Show it here then... 
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
None of the projectors mentioned is competition material...
Here is one example... |
They're not. But that does not mean I'm speaking bad of any of them. I'm not posting pictures of grave sites, or constantly trying to tell you guys that the technology is no good. I spoke of the Sony and have reason to, both from a technical perspective as well as an experience with another model and the company on it.
Were you expecting me to say there's a possibility the listed digital projectors would be better than mine?
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
Show it here then... |
Why, what would be accomplished?
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
None of the projectors mentioned is competition material...
Here is one example... |
They're not. But that does not mean I'm speaking bad of any of them. I'm not posting pictures of grave sites, or constantly trying to tell you guys that the technology is no good. I spoke of the Sony and have reason to, both from a technical perspective as well as an experience with another model and the company on it.
Were you expecting me to say there's a possibility the listed digital projectors would be better than mine? |
Yes, I would expect that. You have no experience with the VW1000/1100, and if you know Mark Haflich why donīt you visit him and see his VW1100 trash??
I have not seen your Marquee, but what you show with all your screenshots I donīt think it is as good as you say. If someone shows me a CRT I find better than my X500, I would have no problem admitting it. And I would post here about the results, but you know that there is no digital that can compete with your CRT and I find that to be narrow minded.
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:59 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Show it here then... |
Why, what would be accomplished? |
You could show the high MTF of your CRT, it is easy to see even if you dont measure it. I doubt it looks good...
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
I have not seen your Marquee, but what you show with all your screenshots I donīt think it is as good as you say. If someone shows me a CRTīt I find better than my X500, I would have no problem admitting it. And I would post here about the results, but you know that there is no digital that can compete with your CRT and I find that to be narrow minded. |
My speaking of no competition is more of an ego thing. I have no problem with both technologies having strengths, some better than others. But being able to clearly state one is better than the other. No I would be an idiot for saying that.
Digital has come a long ways, and in a lot of ways it can be considered better in some regards, but it has not fully earned the crown.
So no, If I felt the way you're trying to make it out, I would go over on AVS and post that digital still has a long ways to go....very similar to what you two guys are doing here, but no, I find that to be offensive and wrong to invade a forum telling hobbiest they need to bury their hobby, because it's dead.
The JVC projectors is what I've been recommended to my customers, that's already known here..
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Show it here then... |
Why, what would be accomplished? |
You could show the high MTF of your CRT, it is easy to see even if you dont measure it. I doubt it looks good... |
You can even see how well it is from the screenshots. The ability of the CRT projector to both display sharpness and low end black detail is the same as high MTF or SPEED
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Diddern wrote: |
About MTF on a 909 CRT i know it's about 30-50 on 1080P |
On a CRT the MTF would be much better that faster the video chain of course. And in comparison to Greg's I know nothing about. But I can put an 300mhz video chain my my Marquee, and for sure that would GREATLY improve on the MTF (and you can confirm this with Scott @ VDC).
I've had quite a few experts comment that my projector must have very good MTF. I've never measured it nor find it necessary to do so.
For an analog chain, bandwidth and Speed would be the markers. I have a video chain that I can install in my Marquee that has a flatness (not -3db) bandwidth near 160mhz -- meaning it's a super fast video chain that will surely have a higher MTF |
Post a picture then 1:1 I bet that it's around the same as all crts.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Show it here then... |
Why, what would be accomplished? |
You could show the high MTF of your CRT, it is easy to see even if you dont measure it. I doubt it looks good... |
You can even see how well it is from the screenshots. The ability of the CRT projector to both display sharpness and low end black detail is the same as high MTF or SPEED |
Yes, but it does not do that very wel at least in your screenshots. So please post the 1:1 picture so we can see how good it looks.
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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This is how high MTF should look like, this from my sold VW1000/1100.
It should be taken much closer, but I donīt have the right lens for that. But we get an idea anyway.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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But in any way have a look at the pictures at the start, very similar to the car pictures and others hehe.
a CRT 909 cine9 marquee 9500 or g90 will NEVER
Be near a high end digital as the jvcx500 or any other digital at HD material 1080P or higher. NEVER..
But black level on some digitals better yes. And I can say that I need that. And of course motion resolution and imputlag. Then for gaming mostly and simulators.
But this is not nearly visible in blueray motion /FI/. I have had a-b tests with bluray oppo on 909 vs sony hw55 and the jvc x500 and the vw1000 and on all the test material I used.
Then film, the digital was better on the motion in picture visible. And I really tried to see the god side here on the CRT. The 909 was better when motion resolution test pattern came on yes.
Used avatar, casino royal, zero dark thirty, borne identity car s. And manny more.
But the CRT was very close at motion compared, so there not much to talk about.
And for those of you that think there is only sharpness think again.
It's EVERY other aspect in a picture except 0 ire then on most of the digitals out there.
The closest and very very close is the x500 or x700,
my x500 measures 38900:1 with iris fully open. With 15FL.
then correct adjusted. A CRT like a cine 9 with 250-300 lumens lol. It feels like my old CRT but just 1000 times better and with 1500 lumens.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | But in any way have a look at the pictures at the start, very similar to the car pictures and others hehe.
a CRT 909 cine9 marquee 9500 or g90 will NEVER
Be near a high end digital as the jvcx500 or any other digital at HD material 1080P or higher. NEVER..
But black level on some digitals better yes. And I can say that I need that. And of course motion resolution and imputlag. Then for gaming mostly and simulators.
But this is not nearly visible in blueray motion /FI/. I have had a-b tests with bluray oppo on 909 vs sony hw55 and the jvc x500 and the vw1000 and on all the test material I used.
Then film, the digital was better on the motion in picture visible. And I really tried to see the god side here on the CRT. The 909 was better when motion resolution test pattern came on yes.
Used avatar, casino royal, zero dark thirty, borne identity car s. And manny more.
But the CRT was very close at motion compared, so there not much to talk about.
And for those of you that think there is only sharpness think again.
It's EVERY other aspect in a picture except 0 ire then on most of the digitals out there.
The closest and very very close is the x500 or x700,
my x500 measures 38900:1 with iris fully open. With 15FL.
then correct adjusted. A CRT like a cine 9 with 250-300 lumens lol. It feels like my old CRT but just 1000 times better and with 1500 lumens. |
To sum it up: This is what digitals are missing out on.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | But in any way have a look at the pictures at the start, very similar to the car pictures and others hehe.
a CRT 909 cine9 marquee 9500 or g90 will NEVER
Be near a high end digital as the jvcx500 or any other digital at HD material 1080P or higher. NEVER..
But black level on some digitals better yes. And I can say that I need that. And of course motion resolution and imputlag. Then for gaming mostly and simulators.
But this is not nearly visible in blueray motion /FI/. I have had a-b tests with bluray oppo on 909 vs sony hw55 and the jvc x500 and the vw1000 and on all the test material I used.
Then film, the digital was better on the motion in picture visible. And I really tried to see the god side here on the CRT. The 909 was better when motion resolution test pattern came on yes.
Used avatar, casino royal, zero dark thirty, borne identity car s. And manny more.
But the CRT was very close at motion compared, so there not much to talk about.
And for those of you that think there is only sharpness think again.
It's EVERY other aspect in a picture except 0 ire then on most of the digitals out there.
The closest and very very close is the x500 or x700,
my x500 measures 38900:1 with iris fully open. With 15FL.
then correct adjusted. A CRT like a cine 9 with 250-300 lumens lol. It feels like my old CRT but just 1000 times better and with 1500 lumens. |
To sum it up: This is what digitals are missing out on. |
No it is not.
That is a picture that needs high on/off and high ansi/intrascene contrast and CRT don+t have high ansi/intrascene contrast. I would look more dynamic on my X500...
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | But in any way have a look at the pictures at the start, very similar to the car pictures and others hehe.
a CRT 909 cine9 marquee 9500 or g90 will NEVER
Be near a high end digital as the jvcx500 or any other digital at HD material 1080P or higher. NEVER..
But black level on some digitals better yes. And I can say that I need that. And of course motion resolution and imputlag. Then for gaming mostly and simulators.
But this is not nearly visible in blueray motion /FI/. I have had a-b tests with bluray oppo on 909 vs sony hw55 and the jvc x500 and the vw1000 and on all the test material I used.
Then film, the digital was better on the motion in picture visible. And I really tried to see the god side here on the CRT. The 909 was better when motion resolution test pattern came on yes.
Used avatar, casino royal, zero dark thirty, borne identity car s. And manny more.
But the CRT was very close at motion compared, so there not much to talk about.
And for those of you that think there is only sharpness think again.
It's EVERY other aspect in a picture except 0 ire then on most of the digitals out there.
The closest and very very close is the x500 or x700,
my x500 measures 38900:1 with iris fully open. With 15FL.
then correct adjusted. A CRT like a cine 9 with 250-300 lumens lol. It feels like my old CRT but just 1000 times better and with 1500 lumens. |
To sum it up: This is what digitals are missing out on. |
No it is not. |
Your not? Well, then I would like to see that particular screenie as well some day. I'm interested in how they compare and it's just good fun on my end, nothing else.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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0 IRE is important at least for me.
There are a lot of scenes with fading to black.
I can highly recommend to check out the latest digitals (with the image of the CRT in mind). Myself i was disappointed cause i expected much much more from units with such a price tag.
It's 2015 and CRT is still here for some that's good.
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