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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:10 am Post subject: Calibrating |
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My calibrator uses this in my home.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:13 am Post subject: |
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look like nice gear, but the calibration data would tell more.. 
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: |
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This is the report on my projector today.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | look like nice gear, but the calibration data would tell more.. |
Last edited by Diddern on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot.. That looks nice.
And also the first time i seen anyone post calibration data from a pro calibration.. 
For sure you will have much more credit than anyone with all kind of claims with no proof.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: |
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 I have no intention of lying or manipulating anything, just say what I see and feel.
And I will be the first to admit if something is better. And I hope that happen soon.
The technology have to go forwards 
| stridsvognen wrote: | Thanks a lot.. That looks nice.
And also the first time i seen anyone post calibration data from a pro calibration..
For sure you will have much more credit than anyone with all kind of claims with no proof. |
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kabuby77
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 147
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Pre calibration data are not so bad, most of projectors are very far from that values.
When someone do a calibration they should report also the calibration date of instrumentation used.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | Same with the ladies a 9" will be more impressive and give more dept. than a 8"
| Spanky Ham wrote: | | HOLD ONNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought this was a 909. I really don't care how an 8" AC compares to a digital. |
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I want you to understand that I appreciate the time that you are putting into doing this.
CRTs went from all around better performance to better price/performance to now having just a couple of areas that are better than digital. Of course with the evolution of digital, CRTs have come down in price. So, price/performance still matters. Most people can purchase an 8" LC pj for less than the price of any 1080p digital. I would guess that most here haven't paid over $3k for a 9" pj in the last year or so.
For me, that means the Sony HW50 should be compared to a 9" pj. Personally, I doubt if a 1000 would lose to a 9" in anything but on/off cr.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Nice equipment your calibrator has. IIRC Craig has moved to the JETI and likes it better than his PR.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | Same with the ladies a 9" will be more impressive and give more dept. than a 8"
| Spanky Ham wrote: | | HOLD ONNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought this was a 909. I really don't care how an 8" AC compares to a digital. |
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I want you to understand that I appreciate the time that you are putting into doing this.
CRTs went from all around better performance to better price/performance to now having just a couple of areas that are better than digital. Of course with the evolution of digital, CRTs have come down in price. So, price/performance still matters. Most people can purchase an 8" LC pj for less than the price of any 1080p digital. I would guess that most here haven't paid over $3k for a 9" pj in the last year or so.
For me, that means the Sony HW50 should be compared to a 9" pj. Personally, I doubt if a 1000 would lose to a 9" in anything but on/off cr. |
In many ways ill have to agree with you, but i think īthat the few of us that still hang on to CRT just dont want to loose that complete dark room where you cant see your own hand in front of your nose when the projectot go into black, and when douing dark scenes having that amasing dept, and shiny black.
2nd most of us like the travel from lousy to amasing.. The exitment of 40KV all around your hands when adjusting magnetics.
But i still dont think Digital is stable.. You have to downloade new firmware every 2 weeks untill they stop supporting it, and hope they finish developing it before it runs out of production.
Also the price drop every time there is a new model.. and thats often.. 2 generations old, no one wants it anymore..
Development is good, but ill love to see the day they put a product on the marked whos finished, and will be there for 5 years.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Diddern: You had the option "Disable BBCode in this post" enabled for all your posts so your quoting wasn't working right. I edited all your posts and unchecked the option to make it work now and also changed your user settings so that it won't happen with your future posts. You must have inadvertently checked it when you first signed up.
Kal
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | But i still dont think Digital is stable.. You have to downloade new firmware every 2 weeks untill they stop supporting it, and hope they finish developing it before it runs out of production. |
I've had my RS45 for well over a year and I've installed exactly one (unnecessary) firmware update on it.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | Also the price drop every time there is a new model.. and thats often.. 2 generations old, no one wants it anymore.. |
Yes, because things keep getting better. It's the same reason the price of CRT is also falling precipitously.
Still, some projectors continue to be very desirable and salable. Even the first- and second-gen JVC's like the RS1 and RS2 continue to sell for decent prices. Unless you rush right out and pay retail when a projector is brand new, total cost of ownership is very reasonable.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | Development is good, but ill love to see the day they put a product on the marked whos finished, and will be there for 5 years. |
Good luck with that. These newer projectors are remarkably complex devices that handle a lot of different types of resolutions, frame rates, color spaces, 2D/3D (and all the different formats of same), plus all the crap that goes along with HDMI. Software drives all that, and there are just too many different permutations and combinations to release a truly "finished" product. For better, and worse, we don't live in a 'simple' analog world anymore.
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't like he idea of fixed panel displays. Sure they support other resolutions but they still are xxx by xxx panels.
If they can come up with a true flexible resolution digital that has true blacks then I'm in !!!
There was some one using laser and phosphor, using the laser in the same fashion as the electron beam. What ever happened there?
Athanasios
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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | I've had my RS45 for well over a year and I've installed exactly one (unnecessary) firmware update on it. |
Similar story here. My RS56 is 10 months old. Never done an update. Haven't even looked.... <just checked> ok, it doesn't even apepar that there are firmware updates for any of the JVC projectors released last year (RS46/48/56/66).
| stridsvognen wrote: | | Development is good, but ill love to see the day they put a product on the marked whos finished, and will be there for 5 years. |
Good luck with that. These newer projectors are remarkably complex devices that handle a lot of different types of resolutions, frame rates, color spaces, 2D/3D (and all the different formats of same), plus all the crap that goes along with HDMI. Software drives all that, and there are just too many different permutations and combinations to release a truly "finished" product. For better, and worse, we don't live in a 'simple' analog world anymore.[/quote]
That world didn't even exist when CRT was selling. They were constantly coming out with newer/better CRT projectors and more often than every 5 years. Just look at any of the projector brands like Barco/Electrohome/Sony to see how many models there were over the years. Check out all the models of Ehome over the years: http://www.curtpalme.com/PJSpecs_Electrohome.shtm
Or Barco: http://www.curtpalme.com/PJSpecs_Barco.shtm
I don't know anything in the tech industry that sits still.
| Nashou66 wrote: | I just don't like he idea of fixed panel displays. Sure they support other resolutions but they still are xxx by xxx panels.
If they can come up with a true flexible resolution digital that has true blacks then I'm in !!! |
1080p panels have pixels small enough and DILA has a fill factor that's high enough, that it really doesn't matter anymore. I certainly can't see pixels at my seating distance (about 11 feet from an 8 foot wide screen). If 1080p hasn't done it, 4K certainly will on just about any setup.
Then there is JVC's eshift technology that gets rid of pixels completely even 2 inches from the screen with no loss of resolution or detail. I leave it on (as do most JVC owners who have it) because it looks like CRT. There are no visible pixels at all.
Most people say they can't see the difference with eshift on or off on an average screen size/viewing distance, so the fact that it's a fixed pixel display doesn't matter.
Kal
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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It is not about seeing pixels. I like to be able to scan any resolution with out it looking like crap. 480p on a fixed panel looks way way worse than 480p on a Multi resolution CRT display. the scaling still sucks even with a lumagen in the mix.
I like flexible resolution displays where every resolution can be the native resolution.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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What you say here is mostly correct in my eyes, but A Sony HW50 or a (JVCx55 here in Europe) will be better "almost" at all compared to a 9"
The digital will loose for 0-3 ire. The VW1000 will also loose over a crt then from 0-2 ire but just to state a point VW1000 in a total different league... You have to see this to understand.
Remember also that the CRT that we talk about here have mods for 3000-4000dollar and from what I remember I cant say that its any difference on that to a 909 maybe better. . Everything has been changed. And still modding. But the hw50 that we tested against it last time as shown in pictures is so FAR form the quality that the hw50 can provide. And for that price the HW50 costs its worth it. But its what you like to use money on.
But lifetime is better on the CRT and the total total black.
[quote="Spanky Ham"] | Diddern wrote: | Same with the ladies a 9" will be more impressive and give more dept. than a 8"
For me, that means the Sony HW50 should be compared to a 9" pj. Personally, I doubt if a 1000 would lose to a 9" in anything but on/off cr. |
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Diddern, your quotting is driving me crazy lol
I think most CRT machines have a maximum price about 3000$ moddet all the way..
My 2004 Marquee with 800 hours and HD 10E lenses was 700$ plus a new green tube 700$, and a some board mods and a moome card and red C element, ill say around 1000$
A Barco 909 is on a different price level, and dont seem to be worth it at all from what i see around here.
Please find someone else with a hi end 9" CRT machine if you like to make a shootout, the 808 you compared with is not worth 100$
And the calibration done to it looks hopeless.
I hope to have my Marquee hanging next year some time, so if you ever come to Denmark, love your screen shots, so that would be a very fun shootout. and its possible to make a JVC VS SONY shootout to.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Hehe I do not know what I do wrong with the quoting lol.
Now I deleted everything.
But anyway, I hope soon to do the same with a 909 then side by side with a HW50, HW55 or a JVC the new type.
Have fun its time to watch a movie.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I like to take your offer when you are ready I can get a new Sony or a jvc. Just tell me when I can come.
😜
| stridsvognen wrote: |
I hope to have my Marquee hanging next year some time, so if you ever come to Denmark, love your screen shots, so that would be a very fun shootout. and its possible to make a JVC VS SONY shootout to. |
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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It's mind-boggling that you guys are still talking about CRT vs digital shootouts, hashing out the same stuff over and over and over. This has all played out time and time again.
FH Video had a demo room at CEDIA in Denver with a calibrated G90 next to a calibrated VW100... This is was in 2007 or 2008, I think. Back then, the VW100 was getting very close to looking as good as a G90. The G90 was much blacker, almost as sharp, and had better motion, but the Ruby looked pretty damn good. That was 5 or 6 years ago. Do you guys realize what's happened to good digital projectors since then?
I think most people in this forum have never seen anything like Kal's RS56, and would be truly stunned how good digital could be if they'd actually seen it.
The VW600 demo at CEDIA? 4k on a 13-foot wide 1.3-gain screen. It was phenomenal. Gorgeous, in fact. $15k retail, so street will probably be in the $12k ballpark. The only way to do anything remotely similar with CRT is a blend rig like Athanasios'. Two 9500 LC's, two blenders, two Moome cards, a Lumagen, and a room and ceiling to accommodate it all... You aren't going to be far off the VW600, but you still don't have a 4k setup. Going forward, maybe you will, maybe you won't.
The JVC X900 demo was also great - really good - though their demo material left a lot to be desired.
The ship has sailed people. There are now excellent digitals. Get over it. If you love CRT, and you enjoy the hobby, that's awesome - more power to you. CRT is awesome in terms of bang-for-buck, and it does some things very well. But, it also has down-sides, and digital is doing some of these things pretty damn well at this point, and some things much better. So, CRT vs. digital shootouts at this point are a bit silly IMHO.
It really is a "use what you like and can afford/justify/rationalize" type of thing at this point.
BTW, regardless of which side of the fence you're on, comparing a VW1000 to an 808 is certainly beyond pointless.
SC
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