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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Not true, gain board got nothing to do with point or any other convergence. Use of point is the only way to get it perfect, the procedure goes green geometry then touch up with green point, red and blue geometry follwed by red and blue point. |
Before the video went black on my 10pg the red tubes point grid went crazy(not the point board) just before the grids and video went black so it is tied into it somehow as after only the menus and info(clock/dat and source) showed on the screen nothing else
I got another gain board and it does the same as the old one on the green tube only(menus only) but shows video and grids along with the menus on the red and blu tubes(convergence grids are perfectly straight on the red and blue tube faces(I don't have it set up to use my screen right now so looking at the tube face is my only way of working with it))
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crt king of black
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: |
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No, its an unrelated issue. Convergence is controlled by magnetics.
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mx83toy
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 322
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: |
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And back to how awesome the 9 is....
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Yes... Somewhat exceptional 
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: |
Yep, i read that 12 years ago in the magazine that reviewed it.
| damian wrote: | | hey corvetteman when u start up your projector do u let it do the warmup procedure first |
No i turned it off, i just watch a movie before i make final adjustments. By then its warmed up enough to be ready for adjusting.
| km987654 wrote: | | So not so crap. Better than NEC. |
The astig is better on the Barco no doubt, although the convergence system is not even close to the standard of NEC, and youre only kidding yourself if you think it is. The adjustment is not as fine on the Barco, the zones on the NEC are much smaller, and there is loads more of them. Overall, if one were to compare Cine 8 against an XG as a fair comparison of apples to apples, the XG would EASILY blow it away. |
How many convergence zones do really need to get a good if not great image.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:25 am Post subject: |
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The more the better.
Depends on the surface and the terrestrial magnetic influences, and its not about the number of zones so much as it is about the finer adjustment ability, the Barco moves about 5 times more with just one press compared to the NEC on the fine adjustment, so under certain conditions you cant get it perfect with the Barco where you can do it very easily with the NEC, and it DOES make a visible difference. If you dont care about red bleed around the edges of white objects in some portions of your screen i guess it wont matter, but i can see it, and i do care.
When it comes to ultimate sharpness, perfect convergence and stability is everything. This is why an XG is a better machine than a Barco Cine 8. This isnt just an opinion, its a plain and simple fact. The more control you have over the image the better it can become. Why you wouldnt like to have as much fine control as possible is beyond me!! If i didnt care about perfect linearity and convergence id buy a digital.
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Hulio
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 494
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Guys,
The number of convergence points don't dictate the picture quality on a CRT projector.
Astig, focus, bandwidth, tubes and lenses will do the trick for video content.
With another words, even a 500 points convergence adjustments won't be better than a 81 points one
if it drifts.
Don't forget, Cine 9 (BR909) is the only CRT projector on this planet with digital convergence, astig and focus (digitally
generated waveforms). It means, once done properly, rock-solid picture with no drift at all.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Id be very interested to hear the opinions of the experts here such as Macgyver, Curt, Mike Parker, Craig etc that have been in this game for many years, im sure there will be no question on whether or not a Cine 9 has better image than any NEC, its in a different league altogether, but comparing simular 8" machines ( since NEC never released a 9" XG equivilant ) and their abilities, it would be hard to deny the NECs top marks for their capabilities.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Hulio wrote: | Guys,
The number of convergence points don't dictate the picture quality on a CRT projector.
Astig, focus, bandwidth, tubes and lenses will do the trick for video content.
With another words, even a 500 points convergence adjustments won't be better than a 81 points one
if it drifts.
Don't forget, Cine 9 (BR909) is the only CRT projector on this planet with digital convergence, astig and focus (digitally
generated waveforms). It means, once done properly, rock-solid picture with no drift at all. |
Thats true and i do agree, but if the Cine 9 had more points or even just finer movement of convergence, it would be even better due to smaller asjustments being possible. Unless there is a menu i havent found, my Cine 9 only has a coarse and a fine adjustment, the coarse is finer than the NEC coarse POINT, but the fine is in between the medium and fine POINT on the NEC.
While it doesnt move at all once it warms up, in my experience neither did any of the NECs ive set up. Not even after months of use, and im very critical about perfect convergence.
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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So you are in the same stage as me with my SEOS 919. Just finished mechanical astig and working on scheimflug and dynamic Astig. How awesome this machine works with 4-6pole electronic adjustments. With HFQ900 lenses it's sharp in every corner. Hulio is right it is the only digital crt convergence system and therefore the best IMO.
Did you bought it from the Gumtree? I saw one there few months ago.
Another question if you are getting new LUGS to install why preforming all the steps if you'll have to do them allover again with new tubes?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Im getting new tubes yes, but i wont install them straight away, and i still needed to do what ive done in order to know how it all goes and what to expect. Doing mechanical astig could be somewhat tricky on these due to the design of the neck board, but provided there is nothing right near the magnets that will bite it shouldnt be an issue. Ive got the optical focus perfect with the phosphor grain clearly visible across the entire screen using binoculars, now that i have done these steps i will be able to do them much quicker next time.
I got it from Ebay, quite possibly the same one you saw on gumtree.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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No doubt the Cine 9 is a superior projector BUT you must give credit where credit is due. If you have top notch setup skils and can set up a analog CRT projector to hold perfect convergence for months then all the fancy digital electronics are just bragging rites. I'd be interested to see a side by side between a Cine 9 and G-90 set up buy the same person.
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | No doubt the Cine 9 is a superior projector BUT you must give credit where credit is due. If you have top notch setup skils and can set up a analog CRT projector to hold perfect convergence for months then all the fancy digital electronics are just bragging rites. I'd be interested to see a side by side between a Cine 9 and G-90 set up buy the same person. |
+1 on the set up. You can have digital controls, mods up the ying yang, etc. but a precise set up is the most critical and often underated aspect of the equation.
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Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | stefuel wrote: | | No doubt the Cine 9 is a superior projector BUT you must give credit where credit is due. If you have top notch setup skils and can set up a analog CRT projector to hold perfect convergence for months then all the fancy digital electronics are just bragging rites. I'd be interested to see a side by side between a Cine 9 and G-90 set up buy the same person. |
+1 on the set up. You can have digital controls, mods up the ying yang, etc. but a precise set up is the most critical and often underated aspect of the equation. |
I agree
I would always seen the rear projection tvs need some form of tweaking or readjusting from factory and most I seen(not all) needed the lens refocused some
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crt king of black
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | No doubt the Cine 9 is a superior projector BUT you must give credit where credit is due. If you have top notch setup skils and can set up a analog CRT projector to hold perfect convergence for months then all the fancy digital electronics are just bragging rites. I'd be interested to see a side by side between a Cine 9 and G-90 set up buy the same person. |
Yes and this is absolutely my point too.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | No doubt the Cine 9 is a superior projector BUT you must give credit where credit is due. If you have top notch setup skils and can set up a analog CRT projector to hold perfect convergence for months then all the fancy digital electronics are just bragging rites. I'd be interested to see a side by side between a Cine 9 and G-90 set up buy the same person. |
Exactly
Outside a fault in the convergence system I would wager most drifting issues arise out of poor mechanical setup placing the electronic under stress. If the set has a good mechanical setup then the convergence controls would only be needed for very minor adjustments.
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Therefore you should always set mechanical Astig before any electronic. The 909 has a lot of space to do this and you can easily access the 4-6 pole magnetics. Also focus and horizontal positioning deflection yokes. Read the manual for replacing tubes it's all there. Shifting raster vertically with pot meter on vert. def board must be checked. Mine was way of on red. You can also check if the raster width is equal on all tubes and adjust with trim pots if necessary. Adjust master width on SMPS and voltage 17.3v. If you need I have all documents service bulletins board descriptions etc.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| km987654 wrote: |
Exactly
Outside a fault in the convergence system I would wager most drifting issues arise out of poor mechanical setup placing the electronic under stress. If the set has a good mechanical setup then the convergence controls would only be needed for very minor adjustments. |
Come and show me how its done then  You wont get it any better than I can. Only very minor convergence adjustment was required, it DOES DRIFT from cold to warm, and alot more than the XG, or the PG for that matter.
Mechanical astig was perfect before I started electronic, no movement with under and over focus at all using both large dots and fine dots from external patterns. Electronic astig was only changed in the corners and a slight bit at the sides, and was done using a dot pattern from the computer. The astig is 100% perfect across every inch of the screen, no question about it. And it was easy.
Mechanical focus is razor sharp on the entire screen, underfocus shows perfect phosphor grain on every square inch of the screen, and on all 3 tubes. Electronic focus wasn't adjusted much to be perfect, center was untouched from 49 which is midpoint.
Using a very fine line crosshatch pattern for convergence at 1920x1080p, some parts of the screen cant be made pixel perfect, most can, but I have found the adjustment is not fine enough to get the whole screen spot on to the pixel, where as the XG's POINT adjustment is. You can argue that all you like, but at the end of the day, there IS a difference. I wear glasses when I watch a movie and misalignment to me is NOT acceptable.
Once the Cine 9 warms up ( which takes up to 30 minutes before the convergence is back where it was left, and it stays there perfectly for as long as its warmed up ) the image quality is beyond compare to anything ive ever seen.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't say I could get your setup any better only that a good mechanical setup is necessary and if you get a good mechanical set up then the electronics are secondary to a perfect setup.
Last edited by km987654 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:25 am Post subject: |
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So how long is a reasonable time with no drift to be considered normal? And how far out of alignment do you consider to be acceptable?
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