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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | You might as well go for the best and get a G90.  |
If he really wants the best then a modded 9500LC is the ticket;-) All depends how much time/money one wants to allocate to "chasing the perfect picture" |
Obviously, there's a big time difference involved, but you're implying that modding is somehow worth the effort... How is modding an 8500 chassis to end up with a 9500LC any more "chasing the perfect picture" than just buying a G90?
SC
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | You might as well go for the best and get a G90. |
If he really wants the best then a modded 9500LC is the ticket;-) All depends how much time/money one wants to allocate to "chasing the perfect picture" |
Considering I got the set for under 500(shipping cost not included) I don't mind putting some money and upgrades in it and have some fun doing it as I love to tinker around and so far this set has gave me a great picture(almost better then my nec 10pg)plus curt has a lot spare parts and tubes for the marquee chassis and the color of this set looks great(its black)
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crt king of black
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | You might as well go for the best and get a G90. |
If he really wants the best then a modded 9500LC is the ticket;-) All depends how much time/money one wants to allocate to "chasing the perfect picture" |
Obviously, there's a big time difference involved, but you're implying that modding is somehow worth the effort... How is modding an 8500 chassis to end up with a 9500LC any more "chasing the perfect picture" than just buying a G90?
SC |
IMO, a well modded 9500LC outperforms a G90. Whether someone wants to spend the time/money to make that a reality is another story. Having said that, starting with a base 8500 and then going through the process of converting it to a 9500LC AND then adding additional mods (lens, upgraded VIM/VNB, etc.) can be an expensive exercise depending on how much of a DIY type you are.
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Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | IMO, a well modded 9500LC outperforms a G90. |
Outperforms it in what way? My recollection is that the more objective opinion is that most of the 9500LC mods are to get it up to the performance of an out-the-box stock G90, and that once you get to that point, it's pretty much splitting hairs.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well you two if I decide to either sell my 10PG or part it out then I may get a g90 and compare the two after I have got my marquee converted over to 9inch tubes
Only thing that is keeping me from parting out the nec even though it needs repairs is the contrast ratio 40,000:1 the lumens is on par with my marquee if not more(don't have a light meter to check)
Now I have nothing agesnt Sony and owned a rear projection tv not too long ago and it gave a great picture(it did have a tube replaced before I got it gave to me)
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crt king of black
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Back when I converted my 8500LC to a 9500LC (circa early 2003) the Marquee clones produced by Reference Imaging and Accurate Imaging (both essentially the same Chris Stephen's design) were getting all the accolades. This was the tail end of CRTs hey day as the dominant HT projection technology; meaning that R&D had largely shifted toward Digital. All the research I did at that time (AVS forum, industry publications, installers, etc.) placed a properly modded 9500LC above a G90 as the pinnacle of cost is no object CRT technology. Some of the press that I vividly remember can be found here: http://www.xymox1.com/Resume/Press/index.htm
Out of the box, a stock G90 has more consistent performance than a stock 9500LC as it's brighter, sharper and blacker. A stock 9500LC's advantage is the high bandwith simplified video chain and depth of image that creates. I mention the consistency part because both CIR and Chris Stephen's (among many others) have mentioned on more than one occassion how Marquee's seem to be different from one set to the next. Various modifications to the Marquee can improve the focus, brightness and black level to accompany the depth resulting in a better overall image.
What's considered a significant difference vs. splitting hairs varies from person to person as does the value in even modding a projector. To each his own in that regard.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | Back when I converted my 8500LC to a 9500LC (circa early 2003) the Marquee clones produced by Reference Imaging and Accurate Imaging (both essentially the same Chris Stephen's design) were getting all the accolades. This was the tail end of CRTs hey day as the dominant HT projection technology; meaning that R&D had largely shifted toward Digital. All the research I did at that time (AVS forum, industry publications, installers, etc.) placed a properly modded 9500LC above a G90 as the pinnacle of cost is no object CRT technology. Some of the press that I vividly remember can be found here: http://www.xymox1.com/Resume/Press/index.htm
Out of the box, a stock G90 has more consistent performance than a stock 9500LC as it's brighter, sharper and blacker. A stock 9500LC's advantage is the high bandwith simplified video chain and depth of image that creates. I mention the consistency part because both CIR and Chris Stephen's (among many others) have mentioned on more than one occassion how Marquee's seem to be different from one set to the next. Various modifications to the Marquee can improve the focus, brightness and black level to accompany the depth resulting in a better overall image.
What's considered a significant difference vs. splitting hairs varies from person to person as does the value in even modding a projector. To each his own in that regard. |
I have already adjusted the electronic focus some(set them all to 50) as it was unevenly focused and it made a huge improvement in picture now I haven't checked to see if any other mods have been done to the set but it does have the anamorphic squeeze mod done
When I get some time to see what mods may have been done to it I will report back but I do know it has a nice and clear picture and I am getting some better lens(for the current tubes) to help improve the image that way
Yes I love to mod stuff and displays are no different
Now if I can see a pic of the vim mod(or any of the mods) I will see if my set has them
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | Back when I converted my 8500LC to a 9500LC (circa early 2003) the Marquee clones produced by Reference Imaging and Accurate Imaging (both essentially the same Chris Stephen's design) were getting all the accolades. This was the tail end of CRTs hey day as the dominant HT projection technology; meaning that R&D had largely shifted toward Digital. All the research I did at that time (AVS forum, industry publications, installers, etc.) placed a properly modded 9500LC above a G90 as the pinnacle of cost is no object CRT technology. Some of the press that I vividly remember can be found here: http://www.xymox1.com/Resume/Press/index.htm
Out of the box, a stock G90 has more consistent performance than a stock 9500LC as it's brighter, sharper and blacker. A stock 9500LC's advantage is the high bandwith simplified video chain and depth of image that creates. I mention the consistency part because both CIR and Chris Stephen's (among many others) have mentioned on more than one occassion how Marquee's seem to be different from one set to the next. Various modifications to the Marquee can improve the focus, brightness and black level to accompany the depth resulting in a better overall image.
What's considered a significant difference vs. splitting hairs varies from person to person as does the value in even modding a projector. To each his own in that regard. |
I am not going to debate this. Put the same tube/lens/mag combo in any CRT and the differences will be very small. Craig prefers the G90, which he explained to me (and maybe Curt). He has set up and seen more of the pjs than I have, so I will defer to his greater knowledge.
Big E,
I understand where you are coming from. A lot of us old timers have done the same thing. It was fun finding the bargains, playing with pjs and seeing how good you could make the image. An added bonus was CRT at the time produced a superior image to digital.
Time marches on and some have already defected to digital. I am on the fence and may jump over depending on what is at Cedia. The funny thing is that as I finish my place I have a G70 and G90 that I have put less than 10 hours combined on them.
Oh I forgot to add that I wouldn't worry about that 40k to 1 spec. With a gamma mod, any CRT should get into the 100k + to 1 on/off cr range. Darin measured a G70 years ago with a gamma mod at IIRC 700k to 1.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | Back when I converted my 8500LC to a 9500LC (circa early 2003) the Marquee clones produced by Reference Imaging and Accurate Imaging (both essentially the same Chris Stephen's design) were getting all the accolades. This was the tail end of CRTs hey day as the dominant HT projection technology; meaning that R&D had largely shifted toward Digital. All the research I did at that time (AVS forum, industry publications, installers, etc.) placed a properly modded 9500LC above a G90 as the pinnacle of cost is no object CRT technology. Some of the press that I vividly remember can be found here: http://www.xymox1.com/Resume/Press/index.htm
Out of the box, a stock G90 has more consistent performance than a stock 9500LC as it's brighter, sharper and blacker. A stock 9500LC's advantage is the high bandwith simplified video chain and depth of image that creates. I mention the consistency part because both CIR and Chris Stephen's (among many others) have mentioned on more than one occassion how Marquee's seem to be different from one set to the next. Various modifications to the Marquee can improve the focus, brightness and black level to accompany the depth resulting in a better overall image.
What's considered a significant difference vs. splitting hairs varies from person to person as does the value in even modding a projector. To each his own in that regard. |
I am not going to debate this. Put the same tube/lens/mag combo in any CRT and the differences will be very small. Craig prefers the G90, which he explained to me (and maybe Curt). He has set up and seen more of the pjs than I have, so I will defer to his greater knowledge.
Big E,
I understand where you are coming from. A lot of us old timers have done the same thing. It was fun finding the bargains, playing with pjs and seeing how good you could make the image. An added bonus was CRT at the time produced a superior image to digital.
Time marches on and some have already defected to digital. I am on the fence and may jump over depending on what is at Cedia. The funny thing is that as I finish my place I have a G70 and G90 that I have put less than 10 hours combined on them. |
One of the pluses I like about crt(reguardless of type) is the motion capability (I have many digital units yet none has the same picture even among the same brand) the only digital projector I haven't tried is a lcos type but I got tired of replacing bulbs so much from where my cousins would leave the projector running(plus the grayscale shifts as the lamp ages)
Also I grew up with crt tech so I know how to work on it better then the new stuff by no means would I go back to digital(still would keep my crt sets) if I could grab up a great deal on one like analog rocks did
So I am not being bias just prefer crt over a digital for various resions I guess its because I am that way
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| the big E wrote: |
Also I grew up with crt tech so I know how to work on it better then the new stuff by no means would I go back to digital(still would keep my crt sets) if I could grab up a great deal on one like analog rocks did
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It's only a good deal if it isn't smashed in shipping. Just keep an eye on eBay, you'll find one.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | the big E wrote: |
Also I grew up with crt tech so I know how to work on it better then the new stuff by no means would I go back to digital(still would keep my crt sets) if I could grab up a great deal on one like analog rocks did
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It's only a good deal if it isn't smashed in shipping. Just keep an eye on eBay, you'll find one. |
I hear you there man I got spare tubes for my Ecp damaged in shipping(luckily it was just the glass for the cooling chamber and not the tube and I could replace it easy)
I have seen some that have got under a grand but most I have seen needs a new lamp or has a issue(I don't want to buy someone else's problem child) I just wish I could find one like you did dirt cheap (I know I am being a cheapskate but I don't like dropping a lot of money into a digital projector as just about every one I have had has either gave me issues or tore up(my latest one was only two years old and started giving picture quality problems) hence why I prefer a crt  nothing but rock solid proformance that lasts and lasts
Of corse I have enough crt projectoion displays to last me awhile so I am in no hurry to rush back to digital just yet(3projectors plus a projection tv which is HD and crt)
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, repairability and longevity are two nice things going for CRT. It is probably the biggest thing that keeps me from pulling the trigger on digital.
On the flip side, I haven't met anyone that has had a decent digital go bad. I know it happens, but I wonder what the actual percentages are in good HT pjs. I know Mac has alluded to high numbers, but what type of pjs is he talking about business or HT? Plus, I want percentages not numbers. Saying 100k digitals break every year sounds huge until you realize that there are like 6 million pjs sold a year.
Anyway, I am rambling. Like I say, I will see after Cedia. JVCPro has the RS40 for under $2k on ebay. A lot of performance for the price.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | Yes, repairability and longevity are two nice things going for CRT. It is probably the biggest thing that keeps me from pulling the trigger on digital.
On the flip side, I haven't met anyone that has had a decent digital go bad. I know it happens, but I wonder what the actual percentages are in good HT pjs. I know Mac has alluded to high numbers, but what type of pjs is he talking about business or HT? Plus, I want percentages not numbers. Saying 100k digitals break every year sounds huge until you realize that there are like 6 million pjs sold a year.
Anyway, I am rambling. Like I say, I will see after Cedia. JVCPro has the RS40 for under $2k on ebay. A lot of performance for the price. |
I looked and seen a Sony digital projector for around the same price(it was a lcos)but I ain't ready to get one soon but I do have a optioma h27 currently hanging from the ceiling in my home theater right now but I haven't used it since I went back to crt yet the only issue I have had with it is lamps
When I do decide to go back to digital it will either be a Sony or jvc(the later is a bit more pricey for the same tech)
Now back to crt I looked at the specs of both my set(after I convert it to 9inch tubes) and the Sony g90 both are the same on specs so it seems like a moot point and mostly a brand preference (again I would have to see a g90 in action) which as soon as I can I am going to mikes and seeing his to see for myself (its just having the 8-9 hours free to make the trip both ways to see it)
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:09 am Post subject: |
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If you do a search for Craig's comments, then you can get a pretty good idea of the differences.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | If you do a search for Craig's comments, then you can get a pretty good idea of the differences. |
Well spammy I will but I just checked the g2 and drive settings and they have been messed with so I had to set them to factory and will have to do a recalibrate in the user settings tomorrow(I did notice the set was brighter after I reset those settings as it shows here
http://www.etechvideo.com/techtip1.htm
As soon as I get done tomorrow I may upload a few screen shots so the folks on here can see(also set the electronic focus back to midway which made a big difference in picture)
I have a feeling by the time I get through with this set the only other one I will that can outdo it is my 10pg(still haven't repaired it yet)
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: |
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I know its been awhile but I finely got mike to send me the tubes(they will be shipped in a parts machine)will update once I get them and they are in the set
The Halos bug me now
Will upload before and after screen shots
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