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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: Barco Reality 909 vs Sony VW1000ES |
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Hey,
what do you think ? Is CRT still on top?
Anyone saw the Sony and have a direct comparison to a 9 inch unit?
ElTopo
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Phoenixed
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: The mitten
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Should be a sticky thread.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone saw the 1000es already?
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Saw it at CEDIA, but not under ideal viewing conditions, and not with ideal demo material. Not nearly as breathtaking as seeing the big JVC the year before. There are lots of first-hand accounts of it. Read the reviews. I wouldn't spend $25k on it, but then I wouldn't spend $10k on a projector, so to say I'm not exactly the target the market is an understatement.
The BR909 is an awesome machine to be sure - always wanted one. But unless you're stacking or going high-gain, an 8-9-foot wide screen is it, and you're just resolving 1080p scope material. 4k is out of the question.
With the Sony, a 10-foot screen is cake, you'll have brightness to burn, and you're fully resolving 4k once the content starts showing up. It's smaller, quieter, easier to setup, no maintenance other than swapping the lamp, and you need no external processor.
In my mind, there's no comparing the two machines. If you want to make a more relevant comparison, it would be between a VW1000ES and a 9-inch blend. That would certainly be a serious display setup, but then it's a whole different room. Huge setup and maintenance, the noise floor is going to suck in the CRT stack room, and the display itself becomes more of the hobby than "home theater" per se or watching movies.
The thread that gjaky linked to is very apropos even regarding the 909 vs. VW1000ES.
So to answer your question, no - CRT isn't "on top". Nor is digital. High-end CRT is excellent, and high-end digital is excellent, but they're different, and which will suit you depends on your priorities. Ultimate picture quality? Which aspect of picture quality? No one projector or technology is perfect in all areas. On/off and absolute black most important? How about ANSI, MTF, and resolution? How about all-around picture quality? How about sound? Is sound important to you? What about room aesthetics?
SC
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your input.
This was just a general question.
Priorities for me:
- picture quality
- motion
- film-like
- sharpness which can be achived with a 9-inch easily
- dedicated HT room
ElTopo
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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To add to what Crabb said (as I sat beside him for one of the demos), the 1000 is a nice machine. If one is looking to light up a big screen and sit close, then this is a good pj to consider. I don't care what anyone says, but a blend isn't going to light up a screen like the 1000 or a 3 chip DLP. Art Sonneborn dumped his stack, because he wanted to light up a big AT screen.
As for your priorities, Sony has a reputation for good motion and film-like. Picture quality is subjective. Sharpness I don't think would be that close. I think we measured MTF for a 9" at around 20 to 30. I believe LCOS is supposed to be above 70. This was probably five years ago when on one of my visits to VDC.
If you are really interested in the 1000, then it was available for between $15k and $20k last year. Personally, I would wait to see what happens this year. I think there is a good possibility of a handful of lampless pjs hitting the market. Sony has been talking about their laser/led tech, as well as others.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | If you are really interested in the 1000, then it was available for between $15k and $20k last year. Personally, I would wait to see what happens this year. I think there is a good possibility of a handful of lampless pjs hitting the market. Sony has been talking about their laser/led tech, as well as others. |
I'll be honest, the promise of a bright, stable, watchable lampless light source has been on the horizon for years now. There was buzz when the first LED RPTVs came out back in 07 - the LEDs were too dim to be used in projectors, but it was a first step. A couple years later, LED PJs - primarily DLPs - hit the market, and although they made strides in addressing certain DLP-specific issues like RBE (for some, anyways) and lamp life/lamp dimming, it's since stagnated in brightness advancements and is limited to a 100" unity-gain screen in a light-controlled environment (depending upon the light sensitivity of the end-user).
Laser offers benefits such as scalability, incredibly high efficiency, stability, and long life, and the potential for very high lumen output. Unfortunately its incredibly narrow wavelength causes some problems that haven't totally been solved yet, and lasers are controlled items that can't be used in commercial products over a certain power output, which has handicapped their potential for high light output. Several companies have demoed laser-based techs over the last 5 years - JVC, Sony, Kodak, RED - and none have brought any viable commercial products (at any price point) to market. Of course companies like Panasonic and Acer have released products aimed at the business sector that use a hybrid of lasers and LEDs, but they offer mediocre PQ and brightness at best, and aren't really suited for HT use. I'm currently awaiting the disposition of a claim on an Acer K750 (hybrid laser/LED DLP) from Newegg that the shipping company (Laser Ship) claims they delivered to me but didn't. Once that gets settled, if I decided to have them send another, I'll be happy to give a review on it here, but I can tell you right now that it won't be a suitable replacement for a CRT or higher-priced, lamp-based digital.
At this point, I think it's safe to say that an affordable, bright lampless projector designed for home theater use is a good 3-5 years off at a minimum. I really hope I'm wrong on that, but I don't think I will be.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I don't wanna buy the 1000es price is too high.
Happy with the 909-er.
It's just a general question.
If you wanna have a big screen (> 3,5m) a 909 will not be good anymore due to lack of light output.
ElTopo
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Hog,
I am not sure how to reply. I don't disagree with you. On the other hand, Pete Putnam recently mentioned that a lot of businesses are switching to flat panels over pjs. He surmised that the pj manufacturers are going to have to go lampless soon or lose that business. This may put their feet to the fire so to speak and move up any time frame. I know Sony is rumored to have a lampless pj for Cedia. I think we will have some answers after Infocomm in two weeks.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | I think we will have some answers after Infocomm in two weeks. |
I'll let you know what I see. 
SC
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | Hog,
I am not sure how to reply. I don't disagree with you. On the other hand, Pete Putnam recently mentioned that a lot of businesses are switching to flat panels over pjs. He surmised that the pj manufacturers are going to have to go lampless soon or lose that business. This may put their feet to the fire so to speak and move up any time frame. I know Sony is rumored to have a lampless pj for Cedia. I think we will have some answers after Infocomm in two weeks. |
But that just an other fairy tale, consumer-"professional" electronic manufacturers are doing their stuff to not last too long (planned obsolescence), so even a lampless design or a flatpanel won't serve out their claimed lifetime time (mostly), you don't have to think it will go wrong electronically, but will see that in 5 years or so there will be a brand new multimedia interface, the HDMI will be obsolete -or something similar, just to make your stuff useless. The manufacturers don't want to make long lasting products anymore (even if they say the opposite).
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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: |
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BR 909 perfoming: http://www.jd-bbs.com/thread-3550901-1-1.html
The is not doubt that this projector brings sharpness onto the screen 
Check out the convergence of the subtitles !
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | I think we will have some answers after Infocomm in two weeks. |
I'll let you know what I see.
SC |
You are going? For how long?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Barco Reality 909 vs Sony VW1000ES |
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[quote="ElTopo"]Hey,
what do you think ? Is CRT still on top?
Anyone saw the Sony and have a direct comparison to a 9 inch unit?
ElTopo[/quote]
I have not been very active here on this forum. And a member, but did not remember my username or password.
So i made a new.
But i have seen and ownend many barco crt and digital. And a friend og mine have a 909 reality.
I have a Sony vw1000 now and have tested this side by side with many other PJ.
A crt is still better in dark dark dark seens with just some info, like your mouse pointer om a black background. Then you understand VERY little info in picture. A Sony vw1000 have total shutdown in picture like a crt, if you use auto iris. But shows some more light in black then with the mouse pointer. Because of the iris bringing out more light.
I will say under 2-4% black, if its over this level the Sony vw1000 in my apinion is Munch better then at all in total.
Sorry my bad English
A crt is spesial anyway and a fantastic mashine. And unbeatebull in simulators.
And i agree with Ecrabb in many things about this topic.
Some like analog and some like digital. What is best its up to you, and you Get what you like best.
And the tests that i did, is so i can pick the projector that i like best.
Diddern
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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:49 am Post subject: |
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If I could to spend 25k, I'd buy em both & test them myself 
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kabuby77
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 147
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:07 am Post subject: |
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It should be good, but the image is only 1200 x 800
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donaldk
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Issue is that parts for the 909 are scarce and expensive, unlike the 1209 platform, where they are available and complete spare projectors are cheap.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | Thanks for your input.
This was just a general question.
Priorities for me:
- picture quality
- motion
- film-like
- sharpness which can be achived with a 9-inch easily
- dedicated HT room
ElTopo |
Here we go again and again and again and again MR E? 
I understand that you love your Cine9 and you should do, but comparing a good digital today will show the CRT weaknesses, sorry that is the fact.
I have seen many extremely good CRT`S and they are good for shore, if you don't compare it side by side.
and to your Priorities this is the fact.
- picture quality Much better on a hi end digital fact...., and tested a 909 and cine 9 side by side with a Sony VW95, and the VW95 is FAAAAAR form a VW1000ES.
- motion I have tested this side by side with 909, 808 many times and shown better in 60 frames and better in 24 frames on a high end digital. And YES a CRT have faster imputlag than all digital, but that you need in gaming or simulators. We talk about 24-60 frames pr. second NO PROBE for a high end digital today. YES its some differences form Sony, JVC, Epson,sim and so on.
But not any less than a CRT I will say some better if you pick out the best of the digital.
- film-like??? What is a film like image, you look for best quality picture that can be provided by our best source today BD.
I have heard this many times and when side by side tests I will say 10 out of 10 will prefer a digital today. Then better on a High end digital. Tested ...Tested.... Tested if you don't believe test yourselves.....
- sharpness which can be achieved with a 9-inch easily,, yes yes yes ""easily"" on a digital and on the VW1000 you're referring to is much sharper. But sharpness is only one little thing.....
- dedicated HT room,Yes best room possible for best experience. I prefer bat cave.
Its beyond pointless of comparing a VW1000 to your cine 9. Byt I understand that you like to keep life in your great machine.
Yes a Cine 9 or a CRT will be better in total black and ONLY when the total black is down in 0-2 ire the rest will be in favor a high end digital. If that is what you like to look at all the time...... yes a CRT is better. You have maybe some sense in some films. Look at life of pi in the bout in the water, or Chakira concert 1 time in the whole concert you can see a microphone barley and its total black around. What I try to say here you have to look for images in film that's better. I know and know well, because of to many times checked and tested CRT side by side with a digital high end.
I have tested side by side,,,,,, and have the answers.....Test for yourselves by buying sheep Sony HW50 you will be surprised. And then you can experience it yourselves.
This is the fact I do not want to sell this, I have no interests in Sony, JVC or anyone else. I do not want to sell tubes or modds. And of Corse if you sell or get money in the business you will say what is best for business.
I hunt for the best picture possible, by testing side by side and find the best picture in total. Now for me its definitely a Sony VW1000 but are open for new tests and get something that's better.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Sony VW1000 = 15K - 17K $
A lot of money 
Imagine what's the value after 1 year 50% off.
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