CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[digitalayon]

[km987654]

[mx83toy]

Not pointless just discussing.... I for one love when people look at the cine 7 and turn and look at me like I'm nuts honestly in my opinion don't kill me for saying it... I'd rather 576p out of a crt over anything digital any day of the week!!! Just that smooth as silk picture It's insane !!! Bad digital is so freakn tempting ATM for me I'll be sticking it out with the dinosaurs for as long as I can though

[kal]

[kal]

[mp20748]

I put a JVC RS56 on a ceiling yesterday. It replaced a Marquee 8110..

I'll post back my impressions of it later this week....thing got some weight to it



Edit: Let me add a few things here before I get back with my impression of the RS56. I have no intent of bashing this product or pointing out its flaws or weaknesses over CRT. I am a CRT guy, but that's my preference. And I don't believe at this point to push my preference on anyone.

In fact, every local CRT customer I have in this area, when they call me saying their CRT projector has failed, I then ask them to go and look at a digital before I come over. yep, I've been doing that for that past two years or so. Its just that I think its the right thing to do for your customer. And in most cases they stay with CRT, and even after making their stay, I usually let them know they should keep their eys on the newer technologies.

Now let me be clear that I'm not talking about the very discerning customer, who already know that they should at least consider what's out there and are fully aware of the two technologies. I'm referring to those who are not that into video quality and may not be able to tell the difference as much. They are those who look to me to let them know what to do next and what should they purchase. It's a lost for me, but in the long run, I'll be doing the best for the customer.

And there are a few I've refused to repair their projector. One has a Dwin and the other is a Marquee 8500AC. For both customers, money is not an issue at all. The DWIN should have been replaced a long time ago, but it took 7 years to fail. I could install a Marquee in its place, but this is not the right customer for a Marquee. He is in his late 70's, and I would want to see him remain with something very simple to use. I would rather live with going by to swap a lamp than spending time of the phone trying to walk him through convergence and other alignments. The owner of the 8500 as similar.

So me being a CRT purest, I had to learn to respect the other technologies, even though I don't really like them. And for my customers or anyone else that calls me, I try to feel out what would be best for them.

[stridsvognen]

[kal]

[kal]

[mp20748]

[kal]

[kal]

[stridsvognen]

I think we might just wait and see what Mike will write about. My impression of Mikes screenshots, and the comment he have made in the past is that he do a grayscale by eye, and im sure he can set Black and White level without a meter.

For sure i have been impressed of the color and gamma from some of his screenshots.

We can always beat him up with a stick afterwards, if we think he have been rude or unfair to us who have a JVC..

[Spanky Ham]

Honestly Kal, I thought that Mike was going to give an overview of the JVC from his point of view. Nothing detailed, but a quick impression.

As for comparisons, I think Mike has been working with 3 chip DLP for long enough to have a good knowledge of that tech as well.

[kal]

I suppose. I was hoping for upfront and honest, nothing held back. Nothing wrong with bashing if presented the right way. People should feel free to post anything they want here, whether it be anti or pro CRT, or anti or pro digital. Doesn't matter.

Guess we'll just see what happens.

Kal

[kal]

I suppose. I was hoping for upfront and honest, nothing held back. Nothing wrong with bashing if presented the right way. People should feel free to post anything they want here, whether it be anti or pro CRT, or anti or pro digital. Doesn't matter.

Guess we'll just see what happens.

Kal

[mx83toy]

Agreed!!! Ps I've actually been around some awesome digitalis , I actually started off with infocus dlp ( always bought into newest tech is best.... Before I stumbled across these) and recommend them to people myself ... Crt is a pain like my title says.... I hate loving crt lol.... Funny thing is I didn't know what a crt projector was till a few months ago... And what spArked an interest was always reading in reviews on digitalis " almost like a crt" I thought.... I gotta have one of these crt things

[Das444]

Guy's,

I think it comes down to disposable cash. I’m not willing to part with the 5-7 thousand dollars it would take to have a better Image than I have now. What I like about CRT’s is fade to black its hard to beat. I don’t mind tweaking and touching up convergence it’s my hobby.

Das444

[KellenerSptM5]

[Das444]

KellenerSptM5,

Yes, I could find somthing in the 3-5 range. If i'm going to jump it would have to be 4K (3,840 x 2,160) \ and that takes me to 12-18 thousand. I don't have that kind of disposable cash.

Das444

[mp20748]

I'm getting back to my initial observations of the JVC RS56 projector that I helped install this week.

My observation is more of a Technology observation, meaning I'm not evaluating the JVC as much as I'm looking at the D-ila/lcos technology. So the mention of colors, gamma or anything else as it relates to calibration and proper setup, I won't get into. And again, there is no comparing or intent to bring out the worst or this product.

As Tim Martin can confirm, for the past ten years at least I've worked directly with a former Electrohome Engineer at another operation. Started out on the Barco 909 and Marquee 9500LC's to dealing with nearly every top end commercial digital projector out there. And that does not include being at the DC Convention center (Infocomm) well over 20 years ago when Frank Weathers of Electrohome presented the first ECP projector. Very interesting show of events. I remember (and Tim may also remember this) Frank Weathers and some others were standing at the front all wearing sun glasses. The were wearing sun glasses trying to say that the ECP was so bright, you could wear sun glasses and still enjoy the picture. They were also showing HDTV. At that time, the device that processed the HDTV was about half the size of a home refrigerator. It was huge and very unaffordable. Plus there were no accessible HD content. Only demo stuff. Oh what a time that was, and since then things have changed tremendously. I also remember the first JVC projectors but there were Hughes JVC back then.

To this day, I still think the best projector I've seen was manufactured by JVC. It was a Hughes JVC 100 if I'm remembering correctly. It had both lamp and CRT combined. Back then it was known as ILA (Image Light Amplifier), but over the years it morphed into D-ILA with the "D" meaning Direct drive (without CRT's). The earlier ILA projectors were using three very small B/W 1" CRT's coupled also with a lamp. D-ila is really another form of LCD technology. And when looking at its higher scan rate image on the screen, you saw small and tiny scan lines way out in the corners.

So over the years we kept our eyes on the technology (lamp engine and display technology), looking for the things change that the manufactures also saw as goals to achieve.

Remembering the very first D-ila was an experience. It was the first time I saw a more realistic looking lamp technology, mainly because it had a more fluid look to the image and have better resolution capability. The pixels became holder to see, because back then everything lamp driving was low resolution, and projecting low resolution images on a screen allowed to the pixel to become a distraction much like how a bad case of pimples effect the face. And over the years, i have always said, if any technology beats CRT in being able to produce a natural like image, it would be a JVC Lcos or laser.

Today, and after seeing the RS56 in action. I can say its close, but not as close as I've been lead to believe. I've seen a Sony Ruby and one of the other of their lcos projectors, but without doubt, the JVC was better. I've also seen sevaral of the DP's to include three chippers.

now let me point of the areas in the technology that I'm still waiting to see get better. In the commercial projection industry, most of the very serious digital projectors use Xenon lamps. There are several different types of lamps being used, but the Xenon is the more expensive lamp. it also requires a lot more energy to operate and has a low lamp life. So why use an expensive lamp, that's heavier and requires so much energy and also has a lower life span... well, because it produces a more natural light.

my reason for starting with the lamp, because a digital projector with a xenon lamp is more capable of producing that white light that you can see so easily on CRT projectors. But being able to simply get a good or close to natural light engine is not as simple as the lamp itself. You would have to see inside of the light path of the top end projectors and all they do in between the lamp and the display devices to understand how they are able to get that natural light. Without natural light, things are most likely not going to look natural.

The more commonly used lamps in today's HD projectors are UHP (Ultra High Performance) they are cheaper, lighter, last longer (up to 3 times longer) and can also be brighter. But they are not the best for natural light.

And where I'm going with this is that with any of the digital technologies, if the light engine is not up to the task, you could experience blooming on bright scenes and clouds that appear washed out or silvery looking, to include areas of white to bright scenes not properly showing the dynamics (varying ranges or shades) properly and in these areas its just too bright. the panels or light controls cannot control the levels of light well enough to produce that natural look in some areas. In other words its hard to control the contrast to not bloom beyond the 100 mark or the subtle ranges right below 100.

Not sure what lamp the RS56 has in it, but the only way I'll be able to see how well it handles the light, I will have to cook the lamp long enough to break it in to a point where this can be more observed. So for right now, i can't say much about the lamp and natural light. Which is a very important for the technology to be more film like. Now DPI has taking a UHP lamp (around $1200.00) and done wonders on their Titan HD projectors, so that means that UHP lamps can produce a more natural light.

So until i can get more hours on the lamp, the picture so far is very pleasing in some regards. Though Lcos, the picture is still a bit too sharp for my taste. The ability of this projector to bring out fine delineation is great. But I'm not seeing it do so well in the backgrounds. Which can be another weak area for digitals because of light washout.

I have two other things I'll post about later but for now. It produces a great image. but in my honest opinion, it's not there yet. And I'll point out a few things later to make my point.

To better understand all of this you would have to understand and experience what its like to setup flight simulators and be able to see what happens when a plane looks at the ground and then moves toward the shy, while at the same time being able to handle those ranges without blooming brightness, washed out clouds and in some more dynamic scenes, be able to show both bright and dark scenes at the same time (looking at the ground and sky at a distance). Something so far nothing has been able to out perform CRT at, and its still the goal of the engineers to make happen.

very impressive machine. The HD is the best I've seen on any consumer projector. it's almost up there with the best in commercial technology. it is a very powerful HD presentation projector. It's the first digital projector I think i could enjoy watching a movie on it. But when it comes down to good film quality material, it's not there yet!

I'll get back later with more..

[kal]

[kal]

[tanwn]

[mp20748]