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hansilili
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 302
Location: Köln, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Thanks guys,
I'm getting used to the smeared look while patiently waiting for a 9pgplus crap tubes projector.
Cheers
hansili
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HansA, alles andere ist euer Bier!
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | $100 incl shipping to NY is as good as I can do. |
I seem to recall you having issues with someone recently from New York. You sure this isn't the same guy?.....LOL 
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| hansilili wrote: | | "Soldering onto the old legs, nah, you just son't do that." |
No you don't. Except in this case.
I tried a NEC system board a few days ago. Man, this is about the hardest to solder. I don't know what kind of solder they used, and they seemed to have covered the board in some kind of coating. I'm glad I only did two capacitors.
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The kissing and the colour come crashing down
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:53 am Post subject: |
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I recently got a 10pg with this issue(and another one)can I just remove the point board and see if the convergence grid shows(no video from rgb or the convrgrence grids yet the system menus work)
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crt king of black
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Its not the point board on your set Big E, it either works or it doesnt.
You need to look at the video output board.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Its not the point board on your set Big E, it either works or it doesnt.
You need to look at the video output board. |
If you are meaning the one that send the signal to the tubes wouldn't that make the menus not show?
Pm me your email and I can send you pics of how the set is doing
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crt king of black
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Not always, but you need to check and replace the original caps in it before you even turn it on again.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Not always, but you need to check and replace the original caps in it before you even turn it on again. |
+1
The menu enters the board on a different point than the other inputs, replacing ALL electrolytic capacitors in the whole projector will ensure you a reliable machine for a long time!
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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Not always, but you need to check and replace the original caps in it before you even turn it on again. |
+1
The menu enters the board on a different point than the other inputs, replacing ALL electrolytic capacitors in the whole projector will ensure you a reliable machine for a long time! |
Ok thanks for clearing that up last I looked I noticed something clear around a few of the caps in the set(I am guessing they have leaked from age)
Would this cause the set to show its displaying 480p when I am feeding it a 720p signal? If yes I will go through and replace all the caps I can get to(regardless if its leaked or not)as the boards aren't that hard to pull
I am wondering if I should do the boards that the yokes connect to?(even though it is working and the set powered up with no codes)
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crt king of black
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | The menu enters the board on a different point than the other inputs, replacing ALL electrolytic capacitors in the whole projector will ensure you a reliable machine for a long time! |
If they are not leaking, and you are not using the serial port or watchdog timer, you do not have to replace the electrolytics around those components. You would have to look that up in the service manual.
But, also do not forget to replace the tantalum capactitors!
These are electrolytic as well, but are made with tantalum instead of aluminium. They do not look like normal aluminium electrolytics.
These are tantalum capacitors: http://periodictable.com/Samples/073.28/s12s.JPG
They age just like the aluminium capacitors.
You can replace these with low-ESR electrolytics or Sanyo OSCON types.
For the normal aluminium electrolytics do not use cheap capacitors. I recommend Panasonic FM or FC.
Of course you can always use an other brand low-ESR, long-life, high-ripple, 105 degree C (or higher) of capacitor. If you go to your local electronics store you might end up with some no-name brand, that is physically smaller than the original capacitor. The ESR (effective series resistance) might be not low enough for what is needed. The original capacitors are also of a high-quality type.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SisterOfMercy wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | | The menu enters the board on a different point than the other inputs, replacing ALL electrolytic capacitors in the whole projector will ensure you a reliable machine for a long time! |
If they are not leaking, and you are not using the serial port or watchdog timer, you do not have to replace the electrolytics around those components. You would have to look that up in the service manual.
But, also do not forget to replace the tantalum capactitors!
These are electrolytic as well, but are made with tantalum instead of aluminium. They do not look like normal aluminium electrolytics.
These are tantalum capacitors: http://periodictable.com/Samples/073.28/s12s.JPG
They age just like the aluminium capacitors.
You can replace these with low-ESR electrolytics or Sanyo OSCON types.
For the normal aluminium electrolytics do not use cheap capacitors. I recommend Panasonic FM or FC.
Of course you can always use an other brand low-ESR, long-life, high-ripple, 105 degree C (or higher) of capacitor. If you go to your local electronics store you might end up with some no-name brand, that is physically smaller than the original capacitor. The ESR (effective series resistance) might be not low enough for what is needed. The original capacitors are also of a high-quality type. |
I don't have a service manual for the nec(I do for my elctrohome Ecp though but it might have different ratings on the caps due to different set)
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crt king of black
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SisterOfMercy wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | | The menu enters the board on a different point than the other inputs, replacing ALL electrolytic capacitors in the whole projector will ensure you a reliable machine for a long time! |
If they are not leaking, and you are not using the serial port or watchdog timer, you do not have to replace the electrolytics around those components. You would have to look that up in the service manual.
But, also do not forget to replace the tantalum capactitors!
These are electrolytic as well, but are made with tantalum instead of aluminium. They do not look like normal aluminium electrolytics.
These are tantalum capacitors: http://periodictable.com/Samples/073.28/s12s.JPG
They age just like the aluminium capacitors.
You can replace these with low-ESR electrolytics or Sanyo OSCON types.
For the normal aluminium electrolytics do not use cheap capacitors. I recommend Panasonic FM or FC.
Of course you can always use an other brand low-ESR, long-life, high-ripple, 105 degree C (or higher) of capacitor. If you go to your local electronics store you might end up with some no-name brand, that is physically smaller than the original capacitor. The ESR (effective series resistance) might be not low enough for what is needed. The original capacitors are also of a high-quality type. |
I have to disagree with you.
Solid tantallum capacitors do not age (like Al. electrolytics), some series of tantallum caps tend to go short ocassionally because of too high surge current, but generally they are amongst the most reliable capacitors around, since it is constructed around solid tantallum powder so nothing to evaporate while its case intact.
The problem with the other caps in these old PGs that sooner or later all of them begins to leak, and system boards have very fine traces so they are extremely endangered due the electrolyte is higly corrosive.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | I have to disagree with you.
Solid tantallum capacitors do not age (like Al. electrolytics), some series of tantallum caps tend to go short ocassionally because of too high surge current, but generally they are amongst the most reliable capacitors around, since it is constructed around solid tantallum powder so nothing to evaporate while its case intact.
The problem with the other caps in these old PGs that sooner or later all of them begins to leak, and system boards have very fine traces so they are extremely endangered due the electrolyte is higly corrosive. |
Ok, you have a point there, but they do not measure very well on the ESR meter. I thought the whole point of tantalums was a lower ESR than with aluminium electrolytics.
I have seen three failure modes in aluminium electrolytic capacitors:
- leakage of electrolyte, like you describe.
- top of capacitor is pushed outwards, probably due to venting of material. Mostly seen in PC motherboards.
- high ESR without physical signs of leakage or venting.
The PG board I have here seems to have capacitors with high ESR, without leakage. I'm glad, because leakage of the electrolyte is the worst. 
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SisterOfMercy wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | I have to disagree with you.
Solid tantallum capacitors do not age (like Al. electrolytics), some series of tantallum caps tend to go short ocassionally because of too high surge current, but generally they are amongst the most reliable capacitors around, since it is constructed around solid tantallum powder so nothing to evaporate while its case intact.
The problem with the other caps in these old PGs that sooner or later all of them begins to leak, and system boards have very fine traces so they are extremely endangered due the electrolyte is higly corrosive. |
Ok, you have a point there, but they do not measure very well on the ESR meter. I thought the whole point of tantalums was a lower ESR than with aluminium electrolytics.
I have seen three failure modes in aluminium electrolytic capacitors:
- leakage of electrolyte, like you describe.
- top of capacitor is pushed outwards, probably due to venting of material. Mostly seen in PC motherboards.
- high ESR without physical signs of leakage or venting.
The PG board I have here seems to have capacitors with high ESR, without leakage. I'm glad, because leakage of the electrolyte is the worst. |
I see the second one a lot when I get a computer with a bad mother board problem is it takes out the motherboard over half the time
Now on my pg I haven't seen any leakage except on maybe one and it wasn't on the board that is causing my issue
I am planning on doing tinmans mod for the system boards as soon as dochollywood hears from curt on exchanging some boards for me to do that upgrade but I don't think it will fix the issue 100%
I know before the video went black each tube kinda went real bright(kinda like a red green and blue light show) before giving a good pic then a half hour later I am seeing a dim green out line of what I was watching(not fun or cool after lugging the heavy beast around)
At least I have my Ecp to use till I get everything ironed out with the nec
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I was wondering since I am going to be doing tinmans mods to the set should I just recap the video output board and power supply or what?
I ask as I ain't going to be using it till I can get the boards to do the upgrade
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:49 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion the upgrade wont gain you much unless you can hook up the astig, which if most of the advantage.
If you have a late enough system board file youll have control over the PHASE, and the rest will only make setup a little easier, wont really make it better. I am using a plain 9PG in my bed room and although its not as sharp as the XG in my lounge room, the convergence is perfect and probably more stable too.
Sure its an upgrade, yes it makes it better, but not to the point that it is unusable before hand, itll still blow your ECP away with ease.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | In my opinion the upgrade wont gain you much unless you can hook up the astig, which if most of the advantage.
If you have a late enough system board file youll have control over the PHASE, and the rest will only make setup a little easier, wont really make it better. I am using a plain 9PG in my bed room and although its not as sharp as the XG in my lounge room, the convergence is perfect and probably more stable too.
Sure its an upgrade, yes it makes it better, but not to the point that it is unusable before hand, itll still blow your ECP away with ease. |
I went through the settings before the set started acting up and I think it has the phase control you are right about the picture it is nice and sharp and did I mention bright 
I think my ecp's high voltage power supply has a leak if it ain't failing as it makes a popping/arcing noise and I had the top off so I could see if it was in the projection head it isn't so I guess I will be getting the nec repaired as quickly as possible so I ain't without a projector as I would hate to use a tv with a smaller screen since I am used to such a large screen I wouldn't be happy for sure
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Just do all the boards there now, and use it as is, youll be happy with it.
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the big E
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Just do all the boards there now, and use it as is, youll be happy with it. |
As soon as I get the time to pull the boards and see what caps I need I will get it done but my Ecp is under curts warrenty so I have to see what he says on what I should do as I want to have a working machine so I don't have to rush
Is there any boards under the tubes(aside from the power supply) I know the inputs are in the front of the set just need to know if it is just a board for the plugs or not(if not that will make it easier as the other boards I can get to easy(the board at the very back of the set won't come out but I will figure that one out when I get time
Some of the caps are close but if I pull the old ones off it will be easier
Anybody got a list of the caps in the set(I don't have a service manual for this set like I do for my Ecp)
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: |
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You dont need a manual to change caps!! Rip em out and solder new ones to the legs of the old ones.
The convergence and focus boards are down between the red and green tubes. You can change caps normally on those 2
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