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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Well, pulling the caps and using the legs is absolutely the most straight forward least likely to damage the board. Using a hot vac would be the proper tool for the job and most likely would not damage the trace. So.....should I solder to the left over leads or hot vac????
John
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:35 am Post subject: |
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I just spent 6 hours working on a 9 PG that had some leaky caps. I used needlenose pliers to pull the caps off the leads. Cut the flat top parts off that were inside the cap, and soldered to the little leads sticking up off the board. I have a high end Metcal soldering iron, and even that had issues getting those leads out clean. 6 hours later, and the set is 100%.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Zolzar wrote: | Well, pulling the caps and using the legs is absolutely the most straight forward least likely to damage the board. Using a hot vac would be the proper tool for the job and most likely would not damage the trace. So.....should I solder to the left over leads or hot vac????
John |
This is what I like to do, I've replaced thousands of parts and never damage the boards. First, flush cut the wire leads on the through hole side of the board, the side opposite the components. Then add a little fresh solder, the fluxed kind, to the holes. Heat one leg at a time, and slowly rock the cap out. It's quick, one or 2 times and your free.
That just leaves the old solder, A vac works ok, but it's not 100% in my experience. I always found myself having to go back in with wik on some holes, so I just go straight to wik now.
A good high quality wick, like chemtronics chem-wik, will wick-up the solder without over-heating the board and leave a clean hole.The wick here is critical, you need stuff that has a very dense herring-bone weave pattern. if you can't get really high quality stuff then skip it and do what Curt suggests.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: |
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I assume that NEC uses a higher temp solder than the Marquee Drags otherwise it should be simple. Probably Like the Apple Power supplies I have repaired You have to have a very very hot solder iron and work quickly. One leg at a time rocking back and forth does not work for high temp solder. I use the twin typed tweezer Iron for that job.
Athanasios
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Solder wicking an NEC board is a damn fine way to tear off a trace when the solder cools and is still stuck to the board...
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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The fail safe method that Curt uses is going to be the best way to avoid damage. I dont want to destroy this low hour machine.
John
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Good idea, that is why we all suggested it 
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I use Curt's method on computer boards almost exclusively. Works very well when a cosmetically flawless repair isn't an issue.
And it's fast.
BTW, Curt.... Metcal does sell hotter tips. You need them for all this ROHS crap.
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:58 am Post subject: |
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I am starting compile the order and need a little assistance in what to select. For the most part I have found FM/FC series replacements. The problem is where I can't find the low ESR replacement. What should I be looking for? Is a higher ripple current better? How about the impedance of the caps?
Thanks,
John
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | I assume that NEC uses a higher temp solder than the Marquee Drags otherwise it should be simple. Probably Like the Apple Power supplies I have repaired You have to have a very very hot solder iron and work quickly. One leg at a time rocking back and forth does not work for high temp solder. I use the twin typed tweezer Iron for that job.
Athanasios |
Nash I didn't see anything special about the NEC solder. It melts at the same temp. as any other.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Solder wicking an NEC board is a damn fine way to tear off a trace when the solder cools and is still stuck to the board... |
who the f*ck asked you, moron? Your comment demonstrates that you have no f*cking idea what your talking about. Only a complete idiot would solder the braid to the board, which is obviously what you did.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Whoa Dragan! More eggnog... STAT! 
Frankly, I've done that too when I've used solder wick. It's not my preferred method at this point, but there's still a roll of it here somewhere.
MArc, thanks, I'll check eBay for hotter tips...
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Wow! WTF!!!! Such a lively discussion! LOL!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Good to know, I guess some just can't do it correctly hence the cut the leads suggestion.
Good advice none the less.
Athanasios |
Well I never said that leaving the old leads in there was for people who couldn't de-solder properly. Like tinman said, if aesthetics aren't key, and although i've never done it that way, I see no reason re-soldering to the old legs wouldn't give solid results. In my situation, the board has to look like factory work, that's what people pay me for.
if someone had trouble on an NEC board, I wouldn't blame the NEC. Heat causes solder to crystallize over time. At that point it doesn't conduct heat well and will not flow-out like fresh solder. That's why fresh solder and flux to an old joint, before any work is done, is key.
I obviously get really bent when people, who have no f*cking idea what they're talking about, respond to my posts with ignorant comments. Out of the dozens of people here with experience, who's opinions I respect, there is always 2 or 3 talking out of their *******.
Case is a pro, he's owned a couple of NEC's and a Sega console, and now he's an expert on capacitor failures and soldering techniques, what a joke.
| Curt Palme wrote: | Whoa Dragan! More eggnog... STAT!
Frankly, I've done that too when I've used solder wick. It's not my preferred method at this point, but there's still a roll of it here somewhere.
MArc, thanks, I'll check eBay for hotter tips... |
Curt had the same experience with some stuff, brand is key
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: |
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Solder wicking an NEC board is a damn fine way to tear off a trace when the solder cools and is still stuck to the board... |
who the f*ck asked you, moron? Your comment demonstrates that you have no f*cking idea what your talking about. Only a complete idiot would solder the braid to the board, which is obviously what you did. |
No, ive never done that, but ive seen it done. The board soaks up the heat and the solder part solidifies when the iron cant keep up. I never use solder wick cause i dont like it.
But still, how many NEC boards have you done against Curt or Macgyver or Tinman? Youre always so quick to jump in and discredit them and their sugestions, but where is your experience? They all have it in droves, they have tons of it, and strongly advise against conventional desoldering methods on NEC boards ( and this is an NEC only related thread ) then you come along with one or two PG sets worth of experience and no real idea and tell us all that you know better than they do and you suggest using solder wick on a multi layered board??? Get real man...
You love to resort to name calling though dont you, shows the strength of your case i guess
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Zolzar wrote: | | Wow! WTF!!!! Such a lively discussion! LOL! |
Youll love it here mate
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: |
Case is a pro, he's owned a couple of NEC's and a Sega console, and now he's an expert on capacitor failures and soldering techniques, what a joke. |
Yeah but ive also got a piece of paper that says i know
You just dont like it when youre called out wrong and still want to argue, which was the case with the capacitor failures. And you arc up over nothing too!! You were WRONG. Be a man and WEAR IT.
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | Whoa Dragan! More eggnog... STAT!
Frankly, I've done that too when I've used solder wick. It's not my preferred method at this point, but there's still a roll of it here somewhere.
MArc, thanks, I'll check eBay for hotter tips... |
Look for an 800 series tip. Those are the hottest. Normal is 700 and cooler is 600.
Marc
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: |
I guess some just can't do it correctly hence the cut the leads suggestion.
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Are you suggesting that this applies to Curt and Tinman?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: |
if someone had trouble on an NEC board, I wouldn't blame the NEC. |
I would.
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