CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

mc86 · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: A $300 hybrid softblend?

Hi all -

I have a hair-brained scheme that I think might actually work. I'm far from a PC/video chain expert, so I need folks to vet this and give me a big ole' dope slap or a pat on the back. This could be idiot or genius speaking, I honestly don't know which.

In this schema, those of use who like separate components make simple use of a crappy PC, $300 of add-on hardware, and $40 shareware software the flight simulator crowd uses as enabling hardware. As this solution lies somewhere amongst the pit of my fears and the sunlight of my knowledge, I ask you now, to consider if you will...

Criteria
+ No PC based sourcing or playback
+ Soft blend zone
+ Independent color and gamma correction + blending for both PJs
+ Inexpensive
+ In my case, maximize my two 7"ES machines for almost no cash
+ Doesn't cost much

Presume you have:
(1) Crappy PC that supports >DirectX9 and OpenGL
(2) Matching PJs with no 16:9 burn in
(1) BR player
(1) HDF3 or moome box
(1) Video processor capable of active area scanning of 1920x1080p to 1920x800p. Say LumagenHDQ (Nashou style)
Edit: just remembered HDQ accepts up to 1080i, but to keep this inexpensive...maybe VP50?

The $300 of needs...
(1) Matrox DualHead2Go (DH2G) analog unit ($130)
(2) VGA emulators ($60/ea = $120)
(1) Immersive Display Lite 2 Shareware ($40)

A sketch of my thinking and the video + control chain is below and the workings are spelled out there. Basically, the idea is to pull a switcheroo on the DH2Go, substituting an external signal instead of one coming from the PC. That said, I have a few Qs:

1) The IDL2 software can tell on-board video cards to do separate and blend gamma, color, etc. But can the IDL2 software tell the DH2Go box modify each display's gamma and color? If so, this should all work, I think. Alternatively, maybe the DH2Go's drivers could do this already.

2) What resolutions would work to make things be seamless? I THINK the matrox drivers that come with the DH2Go will allow custom resolutions, but not sure how I'd setup the VGA emulators to store/feedback an 1152x800 monitor. Or perhaps I have to fudge on the 800p and include 64 total lines of letterboxing?

3) Note that IF this approach could work, it seems like if you had a 1080p CRT, you could support 2K easily enough (2048×1080) without need for a VP if you have good playback.

Now, IF this might work, I am a VP and $120 away from tests as I have a DH2Go at work I could borrow to try it out.

Matt

EDIT: minor typo in the image listing resolution at 862 and not 864

mc86 · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:01 am Post subject:

Ok, 76 views and not a SINGLE "Dude, that is screwed-up" or "no way" or "just maybe, you'll have to try it"? Is this too much unfamiliar stuff for folks to wade through? I'm really not sure as I have very little actual experience with many of the components I'm calling out here...

AR?

thanks!
Matt

dturco · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:35 am Post subject:

OK, I have no clue either, but I'm watching closely. Smile

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:01 am Post subject:

Harebrained it is. It's so crazy it might just work!

Seriously, there is a LOT that can go wrong, not the least of which is that the Matrox box can be pretty finicky. I just don't know about using the Matrox software to control it without actually connective the video... Then, you have so many failure points and/or incompatibility possibilities (Matrox, blend software), the chance of success is... Well, I have no idea.

But, hey... If all it takes is the VGA emulators and the software, go for it. If you didn't want to buy a VP to test the setup, you could probably even scrounge up a second (free) PC with PowerStrip set to output 1920x800p as your "faux VP source" for starters. If that works, then you can scrounge up a real VP to test.

If I still had CRT projectors laying around and had the time on my hands, I'd probably try it. Wink

SC

barclay66 · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:49 am Post subject:

Boilermaker · Joined: 21 May 2006 Posts: 527

I think the reason why you didn't get any quick responses on your thread is because the "blenders" that would normally post on this subject are hardware oriented and not knowledgable enough to deal with a PC route. I know, for sure that includes me - Not because it won't work, but because it is above my pay scale.

I can add though that you need to make sure that you will have individual full CMS/Gamma/Grayscale at at least 11 points for a perfect blend. If you decide to do this (I certainly hope you do!), you will have plenty of help from me, Nash, Tim and others.

Good luck,
Bob

nettwerkjohn · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject:

what about using vlc's blending option?

mc86 · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:45 am Post subject:

Thanks all for taking the time to weigh-in -- a lot for me to stew over and play with -- more to come!
Matt

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:43 am Post subject:

You could look at one of the older GeForce Quadro cards, they we crazy pricey 5-6 years ago but bet they are cheap used ( like CRT's are).

dvh99 · Joined: 25 Dec 2009 Posts: 2158 Location: nederland

why not make life easy and do this with pc based playback.
then with a nvidia card you don`t need the use of other software (or a video processor) then nvidias own as they allow for custom porch settings.

i would go with the easy route and see if i`d like it and add the br player or whatever later.

noos@xp37+ · Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 464 Location: Berlin/Munich

...for old quadro cards.

noos@xp37+ · Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 464 Location: Berlin/Munich

...for new Quadro cards.

http://www.nvidia.de/content/Quadroplex_SVS/pdf/LC_SVS_QuadroMoasicLR.pdf

mc86 · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject:

Unlike the recently departed Muttley, I am listening to your advice/suggestions -- just a lot for me to research, process, and figure out! I didn't realize the full extent of my ignorance. Wink

Neither did I have time this weekend to do what I'd hoped with the DH2Go testing as per Jeremy's powerstrip suggestion. Sigh. This is going to be a long road I'm going down...

I don't visit avs/avforums, so I tend to miss crap from over there. Jeez - how do you guys keep your thumbs in so many pies?! I just saw this thread regarding blend options...

Does the VLC solution require the Panoramix plug-in? I read a recent ticket that indicates maybe the plugin does not work with newer version. I had a hard time finding many examples of people documenting how they use VLC to edge blend.

The HDCP compliance of the older nVidia cards might be an issue if I playback from PowerDVD+media center and an internal BR drive.

Also, in addition to IDL2 shareware, I see the Warpalizer gamer version will work with games...maybe most apps -- but runs $400.

This isn't less expensive than a component version, but I thought it interesting TVOne has an internal PC card (C2-260), too. I'm not clear if this just mounts in a PC for power/control and processes PC-generated content OR if it can process video feeding through it.

drinking from the firehose,
Matt

Boilermaker · Joined: 21 May 2006 Posts: 527

Matt, the C2-260 gets its power and control from the host pc, but operates only from external analog video sources. It's been a few years since I looked at the model, but as I recall, it might have an input bandwidth limitation, so you might want to check the specs closely. It functions the same way the other models do. If you decide to go this route, you will need to do your cms/grayscale/gamma adjustments before you transfer to the analog domain.

Bob

digitalayon · Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Posts: 921

Dangit!!!....Now I want another VV1!!!

mc86 · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:32 am Post subject:

mc86 · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject:

OK, one minor success to report: I simply tested feeding a source into the DH2Go that was from an external machine -- the DH2Go acted like the last resolution I had fed it and was totally responsive to input changes from the external machine. Not a single glitch. If the blend software on the host PC can apply to the output of the external machine, we'll be in business. Hopefully, I can try that on Friday!

mc86 · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject:

Just a quick update on this side-project. I have scored some VGA emulators from a guy at another local university, but haven't tested them yet in this configuration. So, while there is no real progress to report, I will pursue this a bit more later to satisfy my curiosity. That said, this is on hold for a while at least as I have...

Recently rolled a $300 dice on a C2-7100 unit on ebay that was showing a fault code. Before I bid, the TVOne folks said the fault code it is showing could probably be reset via the RS232 cable connection OR by replacing the $25 power supply. Worst case, I send it to them and odds-are that a $100-$200 repair will have it going. TVOne folks also said the 7xxx series was recently discontinued, but is still factory serviceable. Only disaster would be if it is too hosed to fix. So...when I get back from vacation, we'll see. Hopefully by next summer I will join Bob and Nashou with a component-based soft edge blend...only mine will be using 7"ES machines.

Cheers,
Matt

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Matt before sending it to them down load the software and try to do a firmware update. The seller might not have any clue on this sort of thing.

Athanasios

mc86 · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:09 am Post subject: