CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[kal]

Thanks Ile good to know. The only glass in the sauna is in the door:



The only tile is the floor. The rest is all cedar tongue and groove.

I really like the tiled sauna idea (the second picture you posted). Hmmm.

Kal

[kal]

Thanks Ile good to know. The only glass in the sauna is in the door:



The only tile is the floor. The rest is all cedar tongue and groove.

I really like the tiled sauna idea (the second picture you posted). Hmmm.

Kal

[zaphod]

i like the black wood against the white (ecru/bone/cream) tile. a lot nicer on the back as well - i bet that tile heats up REAL nice.

however i am unsure about ladling radioactive waste over oneself.

[kal]

[kal]

[stridsvognen]

Kal can i suggest that you use your old CRT as a rear projection to create the view..

[Ile]

I made "fake window" for sauna with lakeside view printed on steel plate. In late 90's I got scenery heaters outer shell from heater factory for test purposes, I was planning pneumatic manipulator for their bending line as a school project.
Then I framed plate and sauna window with lake scenery was ready.

We have just seven fibre in sauna as a main lighting, the Big Dipper optical fibre series was hit in late 90's when our sauna have been remodeled. Frameless glass door and round ship window to shower room is from same era I guess.

At cottage we have pretty similar scenery from saunas two windows that your picture, so no need for fake windows there. Lake is only few step from sauna building.

[kal]

Sounds interesting Ile. Do you have any pictures of your saunas?

Having a lake only a few steps away is great. I remember having saunas in the summer at night and running out jumping off the end of the dock at my grandparents cottage. I've never tried it in the winter or in rolling in snow like some do...

Kal

[kal]

Sounds interesting Ile. Do you have any pictures of your saunas?

Having a lake only a few steps away is great. I remember having saunas in the summer at night and running out jumping off the end of the dock at my grandparents cottage. I've never tried it in the winter or in rolling in snow like some do...

Kal

[Ile]

[kal]

Nice sauna Ile!

That gap behind the tongue & groove cedar and the wall behind is new to me.
There's nothing in the installation instructions I was sent that mention that.
I see the logic behind it however: T&G wood isn't waterproof.
You're going to possibly get some moisture behind there up against the silver foil vapour barrier that will take a long time to dry if there's no air gap.

I've sent a note off to the company that sold me the kit asking why they don't mention this air gap requirement.
Some simple 1x3 cedar strapping on the walls and ceiling is all that would be needed. (Vertical on the walls as you mentioned to allow for good airflow).

We're going to tile the floor and go up a few inches on the wall.

I purchased a 5x7' sauna kit from this Canadian site: http://www.saunafin.com/material_kits-why.htm

I've uploaded the assembly instructions here: http://www.curtpalme.com/kal/traditional_sauna_install.pdf

I love the opening comment:

[kal]

Nice sauna Ile!

That gap behind the tongue & groove cedar and the wall behind is new to me.
There's nothing in the installation instructions I was sent that mention that.
I see the logic behind it however: T&G wood isn't waterproof.
You're going to possibly get some moisture behind there up against the silver foil vapour barrier that will take a long time to dry if there's no air gap.

I've sent a note off to the company that sold me the kit asking why they don't mention this air gap requirement.
Some simple 1x3 cedar strapping on the walls and ceiling is all that would be needed. (Vertical on the walls as you mentioned to allow for good airflow).

We're going to tile the floor and go up a few inches on the wall.

I purchased a 5x7' sauna kit from this Canadian site: http://www.saunafin.com/material_kits-why.htm

I've uploaded the assembly instructions here: http://www.curtpalme.com/kal/traditional_sauna_install.pdf

I love the opening comment:

[Ile]

[jask]

[garyfritz]

[jask]

[kal]

Hi Jask,

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding these points:

[kal]

Hi Jask,

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding these points:

[jask]

Hey Kal no worries, I have seen the NRC report referenced a bunch of times as saying things it did not and then spread like wildfire and become "fact" when repeated. CMHC has done studies that show a full ceiling joist cavity is a better insulator and that ( like walls ) the best results are found with the use of resilient channel and double drywall for attached ceilings and was only bettered by a fully separate and insulated ceiling.
Roxul does shed more than modern pink, the old stuff was still pretty awful to work overhead with, everyone should be wearing eye protection and a nuisance mask with any of these products... my biggest complaint with glass is that it is very easy to install them incorrectly- edges pinched and compressed with air channels that are hidden from the installer, this is much harder to do with Roxul. If you have ever seen thermal scans of homes with glass insulation this is really obvious ... lots of installers do not do a full push in- pull out install.
Judging from your build pics you will not have to worry you are doing a first class job.. although that vent fan with the Tuck tape looked a little dodgy

[kal]

[kal]

[WTS]

Damn, after all this I sure hope you plan on living there for along long time. Who ever buys this house when it comes time to sell will be getting more than they bargained for without knowing all the fine detials that wnet into your finishing. Great job on all the researching too.

[kal]

We have no intent on selling, but never say never I suppose.

We're definitely never going to recoup what we put into it, but it's not something we worry about too much. We're building it for us, not for possible resale value. To me that doesn't any sense. Why build for what someone else may want? The only time that (IMHO) it makes sense is when you know you're going to be moving soon.

Kal

[kal]

We have no intent on selling, but never say never I suppose.

We're definitely never going to recoup what we put into it, but it's not something we worry about too much. We're building it for us, not for possible resale value. To me that doesn't any sense. Why build for what someone else may want? The only time that (IMHO) it makes sense is when you know you're going to be moving soon.

Kal

[kal]

Sprayfoam has now been completed. The entire outside wall was sprayed to about 2" thick:



About 4" thick in the rim joists (the area above the foundation, in-between the joists):



We had some condensation in the rim joists (headers) over the winter so I'm glad to get this completely sealed up now so
that it won't happen again. This is fairly common when the rim joists are only covered with standard fiberglass insulation
and vapour barrier. The vapour barrier is never tight, allowing warm air to flow up against the cold rim joists, causing
condensation. Sprayfoam completely seals everything from air and water penetration (no vapour barrier needed).

We did the unfinished/storage area as well:



This area will be drywalled as well, but just rough (no mudding/taping/sanding). Sprayfoam needs to be covered with
something to meet fire rating. Gysum drywall is fine in most places. In unfinished areas with exposed rim joists it'll be
covered with Roxul mineral fiber insulation as it's a fire retardant.

The one thing about sprayfoam: Make sure to double check that you don't forget any wiring before spraying!

Sprayfoam generates a lot of heat as it cures so I still need to go through and test all the smaller wires (security system,
phone, cable, and some CAT5/6 I installed) to make sure it all works. While it's rare, there have been cases where the
heat melts the wiring. Any issues have to be fixed before drywall goes up.

I had also previously installed Carlon single gang low voltage brackets and pulled speaker wires to the 2 rear and 2 side channel speakers:



Two sets of 12 ga in-wall rated speaker wires from Home Depot were used. Two sets are pulled as the speakers I use
allow for bi-wiring. This is where the tweeter and woofer in the speaker are separated. The two runs are joined at the
amplifier end so it's not 'bi-amped' but only 'bi-wired'. It's supposed to provide for better sound quality but this is
definitely something that falls into the laws of diminishing returns department. It's reasonably cheap to do in the grand
scheme of things. If nothing else it gives you a backup wire, just in case.

The box for the linear fireplace had also been completed:



The fireplace sits on the left side. The wall above/below the box will be finished in some sort of wood. Not 100% sure
exactly what yet.

A view standing roughly where the barstools will go, looking through the window between the bar and the brewery:



You can see that the bulkhead on the back wall were the hood vent will eventually hang by threaded rod. The hood was
installed temperarily to get the height and positioning right and then put away. The hood exhaust fan has been installed
and wrapped in plastic. The make-up air and exhaust ducts have not been installed yet but the external vents have
already been installed.

To get access to install the hood to the threaded (and if ever the fan and other ductwork needs to be replaced) two
14x14" flushmount drywall access doors from Acudor.ca will be installed in the dropped bulkhead that look like this:



The door flange is a perforted as a taping bead with pre-punched holes. Drywall compound is applied over the beading at
the same time the drywall joints are finished. When the application is completed, only the door panel remains exposed.
You can then paint it to match the wall. End result is a nearly invisible door that can be opened with a flathead screwdriver.

I installed a Dynamat-like product from B-quiet.com to deaden the HVAC ducts by adding mass:



You start with about 25% coverage, randomly placed, and increase until knocking on the ducts gives a satisfying solid
sounding 'clunk' (like knocking on wood) instead of the hollow metallic 'ping' sound you normally get.

Bathroom plumbing rough-in was completed, including urinal:



For a few years now, plumbing code in many areas (including Ontario) calls for an accessible clean-out cap for urinals. It's
usually a 4" diameter silver cap somewhere near the urinal. Here's an example:



A bit odd that a clean-out is required for a urinal given that it's impossible to flush anything down it, but that's code. Lucky
for us, we have room to install one in the crawlspace under the stairs behind the urinal, so no need for a strange looking
silver cleanout plate in the middle of the wall. I'd like to say that we thought of this ahead of time, but it was purely luck.

A few more interior framing things to get done and then drywall. Drywall is expected to take 6 days from start to end.
Actual work days is about half that as time is required between mudding and sanding to allow for the compound to dry.

Then it's on to the interesting things you actually see, like finishes (tile, carpet, woodwork, etc).

Kal

[kal]

Sprayfoam has now been completed. The entire outside wall was sprayed to about 2" thick:



About 4" thick in the rim joists (the area above the foundation, in-between the joists):



We had some condensation in the rim joists (headers) over the winter so I'm glad to get this completely sealed up now so
that it won't happen again. This is fairly common when the rim joists are only covered with standard fiberglass insulation
and vapour barrier. The vapour barrier is never tight, allowing warm air to flow up against the cold rim joists, causing
condensation. Sprayfoam completely seals everything from air and water penetration (no vapour barrier needed).

We did the unfinished/storage area as well:



This area will be drywalled as well, but just rough (no mudding/taping/sanding). Sprayfoam needs to be covered with
something to meet fire rating. Gysum drywall is fine in most places. In unfinished areas with exposed rim joists it'll be
covered with Roxul mineral fiber insulation as it's a fire retardant.

The one thing about sprayfoam: Make sure to double check that you don't forget any wiring before spraying!

Sprayfoam generates a lot of heat as it cures so I still need to go through and test all the smaller wires (security system,
phone, cable, and some CAT5/6 I installed) to make sure it all works. While it's rare, there have been cases where the
heat melts the wiring. Any issues have to be fixed before drywall goes up.

I had also previously installed Carlon single gang low voltage brackets and pulled speaker wires to the 2 rear and 2 side channel speakers:



Two sets of 12 ga in-wall rated speaker wires from Home Depot were used. Two sets are pulled as the speakers I use
allow for bi-wiring. This is where the tweeter and woofer in the speaker are separated. The two runs are joined at the
amplifier end so it's not 'bi-amped' but only 'bi-wired'. It's supposed to provide for better sound quality but this is
definitely something that falls into the laws of diminishing returns department. It's reasonably cheap to do in the grand
scheme of things. If nothing else it gives you a backup wire, just in case.

The box for the linear fireplace had also been completed:



The fireplace sits on the left side. The wall above/below the box will be finished in some sort of wood. Not 100% sure
exactly what yet.

A view standing roughly where the barstools will go, looking through the window between the bar and the brewery:



You can see that the bulkhead on the back wall were the hood vent will eventually hang by threaded rod. The hood was
installed temperarily to get the height and positioning right and then put away. The hood exhaust fan has been installed
and wrapped in plastic. The make-up air and exhaust ducts have not been installed yet but the external vents have
already been installed.

To get access to install the hood to the threaded (and if ever the fan and other ductwork needs to be replaced) two
14x14" flushmount drywall access doors from Acudor.ca will be installed in the dropped bulkhead that look like this:



The door flange is a perforted as a taping bead with pre-punched holes. Drywall compound is applied over the beading at
the same time the drywall joints are finished. When the application is completed, only the door panel remains exposed.
You can then paint it to match the wall. End result is a nearly invisible door that can be opened with a flathead screwdriver.

I installed a Dynamat-like product from B-quiet.com to deaden the HVAC ducts by adding mass:



You start with about 25% coverage, randomly placed, and increase until knocking on the ducts gives a satisfying solid
sounding 'clunk' (like knocking on wood) instead of the hollow metallic 'ping' sound you normally get.

Bathroom plumbing rough-in was completed, including urinal:



For a few years now, plumbing code in many areas (including Ontario) calls for an accessible clean-out cap for urinals. It's
usually a 4" diameter silver cap somewhere near the urinal. Here's an example:



A bit odd that a clean-out is required for a urinal given that it's impossible to flush anything down it, but that's code. Lucky
for us, we have room to install one in the crawlspace under the stairs behind the urinal, so no need for a strange looking
silver cleanout plate in the middle of the wall. I'd like to say that we thought of this ahead of time, but it was purely luck.

A few more interior framing things to get done and then drywall. Drywall is expected to take 6 days from start to end.
Actual work days is about half that as time is required between mudding and sanding to allow for the compound to dry.

Then it's on to the interesting things you actually see, like finishes (tile, carpet, woodwork, etc).

Kal

[Tinman]

Hi Kal,

I hope you'll be ready for some unwanted guests once this is all done.

Man, I really wish I had a house with a basement....

Marc

[garyfritz]