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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: BluRay for Xbox360??? |
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Has anyone done any research into the feasibility of using a BluRay ROM with the 360? I'm apologize for not doing any research in advance but I thought I'd ask before I went through all the work.
It's just a USB connection right? Are there any proprietary tokens or MS Xbox OS programming involved that would prevent connection of just any USB drive? I'm sitting on the fence debating whether to pull the trigger and buy the 360 HD-DVD or wait.
My preliminary research is pointing to BluRay as the eventual winners of the format war based on not just the known members of the BluRay association but also taking into account the quiet behind-the-scenes, but powerful players (supporters) like Verbatim and TDK of the BluRay camp. From a white paper standpoint, BluRay IS superior to the HD format with you can get it now storage capacities of up to 50GB on a dual layer disc. Triple layer drives are even offered now.
Panasonic recently released information concerning a 33 layer working prototype of a data centric disc aimed mainly at archival backups of large data bases.
Two of the initial 4 members of the HD-DVD consortium just decided to sit on the fence and offer movie content in both formats...Universal Studios and Warner Bros. Actually 3 formats...BD, HD, and DVD.
I just can't see Microsoft hitching their wagon to a losing horse. Unless MS buys a movie studio and a name brand A/V hardware manufacturer, I just don't see how they are going to overcome the heavy, heavy ongoing research and ready-now product launches of BluRay format supporting entities.
Any thoughts on this?
Greg
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"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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The main thing I see is people buying on price alone. If the HD-DVD is cheaper it is more likely to succeed.
I was at Best Buy one Saturday and there was a lady in the store looking for the "Cheapest flat TV you got" She chose a 20 inch LCD. It had the worst picture of all the sets. I told here to consider the picture quality. She told me to mind my own business and there's no way she would buy the better set 'cause it was more money.
People buy on price. That's one of the reasons why VHS won over Beta ( JVC gave anyone who wanted to make it a license. Which in turn brought the cost down with competition ) Sony wouldn't license Beta to just anybody. This made for some awesum machines but the market penetration wasn't there. They didn't have a bunch of manufactures undercutting each other. It cost more so non-videophiles ( average jo-schmo ) bought VHS. The people didn't seem to care so long as it played a movie on their television.
True it depends on who releases films for which format. Which is also a factor, but ultimately they have to get the players into the hands of the people first. HD-DVD is doing that with lower pricing and I think- in this cheap ass discount store economy we have going now- that price will ultimately decide who wins.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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AR, the bigger question is if non-gaming people would consider buying a $600 PS3 for an entry-level Blu-ray over a standalone $500 HD-DVD player (Xbox 360 Premium and HD DVD player would be $600).
So far, neither platform seem to be doing stellar in the available titles arena in terms of my interest, which should be said for every consumer. As to the original question: I doubt Microsoft and Sony will ever agree on anything, and this position will ultimately prohibit anyone seeing a BD-ROM drive working with an Xbox.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: |
As to the original question: I doubt Microsoft and Sony will ever agree on anything, and this position will ultimately prohibit anyone seeing a BD-ROM drive working with an Xbox. |
OK...so no official BD ROM for Xbox360...that much I knew. I had no illusions of that.
I screwed up and hijacked my own thread in the first post.  (I also argue with myself alot...so far neither side has won!!!)
I meant UNofficially does anyone know enough about the 360 here to hazard an opinion as to whether the 360 could electrically, and proprietary controls aside, work with a BD drive? The old Xbox DVD drives required some modifications but that was mainly lower level electrical mods.
I'll see if I can't find some answers to these questions today...if Curt will stop posting YouTube links that is! There's only so much time in a day to dedicate to screwing off! SOMETIMES I have to squeeze in cell phone repairs for paying customers. 
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"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="JustGreg"] | WanMan wrote: |
I have to squeeze in cell phone repairs for paying customers. |
Hey Greg U got a 1988 Motorola brick phone that need repair. I only used it for 12 years before it died. You think it's worth repairing? lol
(Dam I love Analog phones )
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | The main thing I see is people buying on price alone. |
Not even close.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | If the HD-DVD is cheaper it is more likely to succeed. |
Nope because there are many other factors not the least of which is content and marketing.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | People buy on price. |
Really? If this is categorically true, how do they ever sell a BMW or Rolex?
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | That's one of the reasons why VHS won over Beta ( JVC gave anyone who wanted to make it a license. Which in turn brought the cost down with competition ) Sony wouldn't license Beta to just anybody. |
This is one of MANY factors. In fact, the fact that porn went VHS was a bigger factor in its victory than lower price.
Dave
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="AnalogRocks"] | JustGreg wrote: | | WanMan wrote: |
I have to squeeze in cell phone repairs for paying customers. |
Hey Greg U got a 1988 Motorola brick phone that need repair. I only used it for 12 years before it died. You think it's worth repairing? lol
(Dam I love Analog phones ) |
If it's an i360, i390, or an i600, circa 1997/98...I have gads of them that have no use except at the Smithsonian on display. Actually they ARE digital (iDEN=integrated Enhanced Digital Network) even for their age.
I actually have a few old pholks for customers still carrying them that refuse to get put into any newer phone. They tell me that if I can't fix it then they'll just go without a phone as they won't get into a 2 yr contract or carry a phone they don't understand.
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"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:37 am Post subject: |
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[quote="JustGreg"] | AnalogRocks wrote: | | JustGreg wrote: | | WanMan wrote: |
I have to squeeze in cell phone repairs for paying customers. |
Hey Greg U got a 1988 Motorola brick phone that need repair. I only used it for 12 years before it died. You think it's worth repairing? lol
(Dam I love Analog phones ) |
If it's an i360, i390, or an i600, circa 1997/98...I have gads of them that have no use except at the Smithsonian on display. Actually they ARE digital (iDEN=integrated Enhanced Digital Network) even for their age.
I actually have a few old pholks for customers still carrying them that refuse to get put into any newer phone. They tell me that if I can't fix it then they'll just go without a phone as they won't get into a 2 yr contract or carry a phone they don't understand. |
I really have to read what I type. Sorry that was supposed to say
"Hey Greg 'I' got a 1988 Motorola Brick phone." I miss that phone. Best damn phone I ever owned.
I had a motorola iDen phone in 2000 it was a i900 I belive. You had to make every call twice. It dropped every call! Randomly customer service called to ask how I likedthe phone. I told them it was the biggest hunk of crap I ever used.
If it's not Analog it's crap!
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | The main thing I see is people buying on price alone. |
Not even close.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | If the HD-DVD is cheaper it is more likely to succeed. |
Nope because there are many other factors not the least of which is content and marketing.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | People buy on price. |
Really? If this is categorically true, how do they ever sell a BMW or Rolex?
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | That's one of the reasons why VHS won over Beta ( JVC gave anyone who wanted to make it a license. Which in turn brought the cost down with competition ) Sony wouldn't license Beta to just anybody. |
This is one of MANY factors. In fact, the fact that porn went VHS was a bigger factor in its victory than lower price.
Dave |
You dissagree that many people buy on price alone? As for BMW's and Rolex's...yes SOME people buy quality such as it is. I think we are those people. (Although I have no use for either a Rollex watch or a BMW )
Generalizing now...lots of people don't care. They buy the cheapest one of whatever they can find. I see it alot. My dad is the cheapest person I know. He always ends up with junk too. He wen't out last Boxing day and bought the cheapest 42" Plasma TV he could find. The picture is terible. His 10 year old Sony 27" looks better. BUT it was the cheapest he could find in that size of TV. There's no other reasoning there. If he could save 5 dollars by driving 30 miles ( and burning 5 dollars in gas) he would do it. His life long disclaimer is: "It's good enough" I disagree.
I buy the higher end stuff and sometimes end up with junk but at least it's expensive junk.
Thanks for the porn history lesson. I can see why VHS won even more now.
I guess if Porn hit's the Blue ray first that would mean Blue Ray wins?
Price IS a deciding factor. I agree marketing and spin-doctoring will play a roll as will the content but to just say "nope" price won't play a roll. Why won't it? Do you think the lady in the example I gave above would care which format offered what as long as one was chaper than the other?
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Dropped calls? With Nextel? Puh-shaw! Never happens.
In reality, they drop so many calls we joke, "Nextel...where you never have to say goodbye."
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I guess if Porn hit's the Blue ray first that would mean Blue Ray wins? |
Doubtful. This is the Information Age (we concluded the Industrial Age for those that didn't get the memo) and porn can be transported much more conveniently, cheaply, and discretely by means of the public Internet.
Whether it by high-def or low-def, the Internet has become everyone man's (and every women's) servent to dang near everything. Have any of you seen some of the quality, in both production and skin, of standard-def pornography currently being mustered for Internet distribution?
Heck, there is even a netflix-style rental market for adult entertainment. I think most people need a better boob-tube (no pun intended) just to see the full quality of low-def content being produced.
No, I am not going tp provide any sample (and I have plenty  ).
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | Dropped calls? With Nextel? Puh-shaw! Never happens.
In reality, they drop so many calls we joke, "Nextel...where you never have to say goodbye." |
Actually I was on Clearnet. Now THAT was an oxymoron. The only nice thing about that phone was the no monthly contract. I lost that phone and cancled it. They ended up billing me for another 3 years as "Suspended for vacation" I had to freak out on them 3 times. Then the bastards sent the bill to colection. Fortunately it was a company phone. I bitched but they wound't budge on the bill. The company paid it just to keep it off the credit report.
Then they had the nerve to tell me I can reactivate the phone number for one year. I ripped the guy in their call centre a new one.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: |
You dissagree that many people buy on price alone? |
Your previous statements where much closer to categorical statements. As such, I disagreed. You also seemed to believe that price was the most important factor in a product achieving success, yet we see that is not the case. Japanese cars are far from cheaper than their American equivalent, yet more people choose them. Enouth in fact to consistently make a Japanese car the best selling car in America. If price is as improtant as you suggest, there would be alot less Accords and Camry's on the road and alot more American mid-sized cars.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Price IS a deciding factor. |
On this we agree. What I take issue with is that it is the most important factor or even the only factor for a majority of consumers. See car example above. If this were true, my above example would not be the case. My point is, it is much more complicated than just price. Many more factors determine success.
Dave
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Person99
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: |
Doubtful. This is the Information Age (we concluded the Industrial Age for those that didn't get the memo) and porn can be transported much more conveniently, cheaply, and discretely by means of the public Internet. |
And yet, there is still a ton of money being made from porn DVDs. Prerecorded porn sold to the consumer is far from dead. I agree it won't have as big of an effect as it did with the VHS/Beta war, but it will still have some effect.
Dave
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JustGreg
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I coulda SWORN I titled this thread about Bluray on Xbox360 and not global economics, spending habits of the rich and stupid, or the success of porn on competing formats.
Ah well. As I hijacked my own thread early on I suppose I don't have anything to bitch about.
I am continuing my efforts to find an answer to the original question. First impressions are the 360 will support via the unspectacular/unassuming USB scheme used in its design, the possible integration of a USB BR ROM.
Sooner or later the BR drives used in the PS3 will start popping up for sale and at that time I hope to have the methodology for 360 use hammered out. As long as standalone BR deck prices remain high this might be a cost effective solution if it can be done.
As a bonus, it would be great to have the plug-n-pray flexibility to rent/own HD material in both formats without spending big bucks for one of each player.
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"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: |
You dissagree that many people buy on price alone? |
Your previous statements where much closer to categorical statements. |
Yes you are correct. I was being categorical without even meaning to.
| Person99 wrote: | | As such, I disagreed. You also seemed to believe that price was the most important factor in a product achieving success, yet we see that is not the case. |
I see what you are saying now. I'm not discounting the fact that quality and other factors do play into it, however-and maybe I'm jaded-, I see it all too often people buying on price alone. Point taken.
If the "superior" format wins (which ever that may be) I'll be pleasantly surprised. Of course we could end up with decks that play both HD-DVD and Blue Ray. Somewhat like the DVD burner war when one drive would only burn +R and +RW and the other would only burn -R and -RW. Now we have burners for $40.00 that will do both.
| Person99 wrote: | Japanese cars are far from cheaper than their American equivalent, yet more people choose them. Enouth in fact to consistently make a Japanese car the best selling car in America.
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Marketing and word of mouth played a huge roll here. As well as the government not putting a high tariff on the imported cars. ( Which hurt the North American car makers but that a discussion for another time )
It's true the Japanese make a car with a better fit and finish than the American makers do.
Do you think Japanese sales would be so high if the cars weren't competitively priced? For instance if there was a $5000 tariff on each car which was passed along to the consumer? Just wondering out loud here.
Also think about the best selling car in North America before it was discontinued. The Chevy Cavalier and it's brother the Pontiac Sunflower.
They could be had for $12 995 with a 5 year 60 000km warranty. They outsold everything here for 2 years. Lots of my friends bought one based on price alone. It was bottom line price that sold the cars. Quality didn't enter into it.
| Person99 wrote: |
If price is as improtant as you suggest, there would be alot less Accords and Camry's on the road and alot more American mid-sized cars. |
I don't know the numbers for Japanese vs. American cars on the road but I have heard in the city's you will get more imports sold and in the rural area's you will get more domestic products.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Price IS a deciding factor. |
| Person99 wrote: |
On this we agree. |
| Person99 wrote: |
What I take issue with is that it is the most important factor or even the only factor for a majority of consumers. |
Maybe I hang out in the wrong stores but I see most people buying on price. I should temper this by saying there's always a few people that wan't the most expensive top of the line do-dad.
I'd love to know what electronic stores sell more of, the higher end, higer priced stuff or the lower priced stuff.
| Person99 wrote: |
See car example above. If this were true, my above example would not be the case. My point is, it is much more complicated than just price. Many more factors determine success.
Dave |
Point taken. I was looking at the bottom line as many people do.
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | I coulda SWORN I titled this thread about Bluray on Xbox360 and not global economics, spending habits of the rich and stupid, or the success of porn on competing formats.
Ah well. As I hijacked my own thread early on I suppose I don't have anything to bitch about.
I am continuing my efforts to find an answer to the original question. First impressions are the 360 will support via the unspectacular/unassuming USB scheme used in its design, the possible integration of a USB BR ROM.
Sooner or later the BR drives used in the PS3 will start popping up for sale and at that time I hope to have the methodology for 360 use hammered out. As long as standalone BR deck prices remain high this might be a cost effective solution if it can be done.
As a bonus, it would be great to have the plug-n-pray flexibility to rent/own HD material in both formats without spending big bucks for one of each player. |
Ok guess Dave and I should stop hijacking your thread now.  How does it always end up on porn??LOL
Now that I've re-read your origional post and thrown away the non X-box stuff I'd have to say someone ( probably Clarence ) will hack this and make it work. What about stripping a PS3 for it's drive and incorporating it into an external USB 2.0 enclosure?
Get out the sawzall it's time to hack. 
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WanMan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Greg, we just all happen to be comparing out our personal economics to Blu-ray porn on the 360.  Its the most likely driving factor even if it is a soft-core Hollywood title released on a modern format.
Still, I'd like to see who can develop a driver that makes any BD-ROM drive functional on a 360.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | Greg, we just all happen to be comparing out our personal economics to Blu-ray porn on the 360. Its the most likely driving factor even if it is a soft-core Hollywood title released on a modern format.
Still, I'd like to see who can develop a driver that makes any BD-ROM drive functional on a 360. |
I don't think a driver will be a problem for someone to write/reverse engineer if a Sony BD drive can be used. The XB360 Hitachi/LG/Samsung HD DVD drives are already being used on Windows PC's with a weird little SATA adapter and believe it or not, a Toshiba DVD driver. IMO the fairly painless integration of the drives on MS OS based PC's was no accident.
IMO they knew someone would try and succeed fairly quickly and easily (with a little designed in help), and the more drives sold, the better for the cause, and all without flatout coming out and admitting collusion. (sp?)
$200.00 to enable HD DVD playback capabilities on a (HT)PC is dirrrrrttttt cheap compared to stand-alone players! As it SHOULD be at this stage of the HD format battle. Who wants to get stuck with a high priced turkey with no support?!
On with the quest!
Greg
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AnalogRocks
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | $200.00 to enable HD DVD playback capabilities on a (HT)PC is dirrrrrttttt cheap compared to stand-alone players! As it SHOULD be at this stage of the HD format battle. Who wants to get stuck with a high priced turkey with no support?!
On with the quest!
Greg |
Yeo it'd be nice if they would hack it and make it work on XP with no pfancy video card with all the HDCCP rules and all that nonsense. Kida like the DVD cr ack software is 500kb and fits on a floppy. Then we could have HD-DVD/Blue ray over VGA no problem
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