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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Back in the day, I had a Kenwood KD-500 direct-drive turntable with composite mineral (basically concrete) base (isolated minor vibration pretty nicely!), a Black Widow tonearm and a Shure V15 type IV cart. Haven't had that for maaany years...
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Double post - Edited out
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When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it 
Last edited by Jeremy112 on Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Well since everyone is sharing their TT's I'll throw one of mine in as well. A Pioneer PL-L1000 (one of 2 I have) This is the good looking table I have of this model, the other is missing a foot but works all the same.
I have one of my NOS Staton L747S cartridge/stylus installed on it, sitting on the vinyl at about 1 gram weight (ideal for this cartridge/stylus combo)
Everything sounds amazing on this setup, works particularly well with complex music, and overall I prefer the sound from this model over some of my other carts. All this is running through a B & K Phono 10 phono preamp, then to a McIntosh MX132 which feeds into a McIntosh MC2102 and then a pair of Acoustic Research AR-3A all original speakers. This is my personal listening system I keep out of sight. My system of zen 
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_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wow 1 gram, and no need to tape a penny to the head shell
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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416ray4538
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 517
Location: near Toronto Ont
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Drive noise: belt drive/direct drive
Subsonic filter required
Resonances: plinth/table the tt sits on/tonearm/cart
Shape of stylus
Feed back at high SPL
Wear from playing over and over
Scratches from handing
Dynamic range limited by surface noise
Don't bump the table it's sitting on and if the floor isn't concrete step softly
Alignment : is linear better or worse?
RIAA
Extra level of amp needed
AND it's STILL better than digital
_________________
When the first clock was invented, how did they know what time to set it to?
No point being pessimistic; it probably would't work anyway.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 416ray4538 wrote: | | AND it's STILL better than digital |
SC
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| 416ray4538 wrote: | Drive noise: belt drive/direct drive
Subsonic filter required
Resonances: plinth/table the tt sits on/tonearm/cart
Shape of stylus
Feed back at high SPL
Wear from playing over and over
Scratches from handing
Dynamic range limited by surface noise
Don't bump the table it's sitting on and if the floor isn't concrete step softly
Alignment : is linear better or worse?
RIAA
Extra level of amp needed
AND it's STILL better than digital |
Only for the few who know how to fint the right LPs, and make a good pickup / arm / turntable / stepup / riaa setup.
The rest will be better off with digital sources.
I have only one DAC i think have some of the LP qualities.. the old Audio Alchemy DTI / XDP.
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416ray4538
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 517
Location: near Toronto Ont
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Where would HT be without digital. I mean really 5.1 , 1920 X 1080 coming from a Betamax
_________________
When the first clock was invented, how did they know what time to set it to?
No point being pessimistic; it probably would't work anyway.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| 416ray4538 wrote: | | Where would HT be without digital. I mean really 5.1 , 1920 X 1080 coming from a Betamax |
Yeah.. LP is a stereo format, a bit tricky to sync with a movie.
I love vinyl, but im very aware that its not for everyone, and you need to adapt your music taste to those well produced LPs that can be found, ill guess thats less than 1% of all LPs ever made.
I just got Alicia Keys Girl on Fire on both CD and LP.. I have to admit i prefer the LP, The CD is just a lot of noise.
Ill blame the persons mastering the formats for that messed up sound.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Ill blame the persons mastering the formats for that messed up sound. |
Exactly. There is terrible-sounding vinyl and digital, just like there is really excellent-sounding vinyl and digital. In fact, I'd say really excellent digital recordings are almost as few and far between as really excellent vinyl recordings.
SC
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416ray4538
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 517
Location: near Toronto Ont
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | 416ray4538 wrote: | | Where would HT be without digital. I mean really 5.1 , 1920 X 1080 coming from a Betamax |
Yeah.. LP is a stereo format, a bit tricky to sync with a movie.
I love vinyl, but im very aware that its not for everyone, and you need to adapt your music taste to those well produced LPs that can be found, ill guess thats less than 1% of all LPs ever made.
I just got Alicia Keys Girl on Fire on both CD and LP.. I have to admit i prefer the LP, The CD is just a lot of noise.
Ill blame the persons mastering the formats for that messed up sound. |
remember the feeble efforts to get surround (quadophonic) sound from vinyl?
QS SQ CD-4
And whatever your speaker budget you get way better sound from 2 $1000.00 speakers than from 4 $500.00 speakers.
That argument goes for 5.1 sound also imo. The money should go into the front surrounds and sub ,then use anything that'll do for rears and front centre.
_________________
When the first clock was invented, how did they know what time to set it to?
No point being pessimistic; it probably would't work anyway.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Ill blame the persons mastering the formats for that messed up sound. |
Exactly. There is terrible-sounding vinyl and digital, just like there is really excellent-sounding vinyl and digital. In fact, I'd say really excellent digital recordings are almost as few and far between as really excellent vinyl recordings.
SC |
Its more or less same sh*t.
Its a shame.. Music is so much more interesting when precented more natural. But they just insist on compressing and beat up every sound so it dont sounds anywhere cloce to realistic.
I still think that most are better of with the digital solutions, on both picture and music, but the few who really work for it get a more meaningful experience out of some analog formats. Not sure its so much the format as its the time period they are made in.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 416ray4538 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | 416ray4538 wrote: | | Where would HT be without digital. I mean really 5.1 , 1920 X 1080 coming from a Betamax |
Yeah.. LP is a stereo format, a bit tricky to sync with a movie.
I love vinyl, but im very aware that its not for everyone, and you need to adapt your music taste to those well produced LPs that can be found, ill guess thats less than 1% of all LPs ever made.
I just got Alicia Keys Girl on Fire on both CD and LP.. I have to admit i prefer the LP, The CD is just a lot of noise.
Ill blame the persons mastering the formats for that messed up sound. |
remember the feeble efforts to get surround (quadophonic) sound from vinyl?
QS SQ CD-4
And whatever your speaker budget you get way better sound from 2 $1000.00 speakers than from 4 $500.00 speakers.
That argument goes for 5.1 sound also imo. The money should go into the front surrounds and sub ,then use anything that'll do for rears and front centre. |
Better not mess Surround formats and speakers up with the vinyl.. Might get a bit far off track.
Sorround can be made from stereo tracks, but it takes a lot of controle over acustics and how well your amp pre amp player and so on handels the signal.
Pink floyd the wall, or Roger waters Amused to death is good exampels, if you dont get sound up down side behind.. far behind the speaker and so on you just dont have a setup who reproduce the signal correct. Vinyl CD or whatever.
It will take most quite some life experience to understand and play perfect Q sound.
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416ray4538
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 517
Location: near Toronto Ont
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Analogue approximates perfection
Digital perfects approximation
Vinyl is making a well deserved comeback.
_________________
When the first clock was invented, how did they know what time to set it to?
No point being pessimistic; it probably would't work anyway.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 416ray4538 wrote: | Analogue approximates perfection
Digital perfects approximation
Vinyl is making a well deserved comeback. |
I dont totaly agree, i dont have much love to spare for most of the new releases on vinyl, who seems to share both the flaws of the digital and analog world.
Analog sometimes seems to be mastered with less output, using less limiter. Sounding less stressing.
But dynamic and the analog high frequence over 20Khz just seems to be lost forever.
And there is nothing like realy high frequence from a violin on a old clasic record where everything worked the day they made it.
So in general im into vinyl production from around 1950- 1984, then there is a black period until around 1990, productions from after that time i have more luck with CD.
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416ray4538
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 517
Location: near Toronto Ont
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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My vinyl is old too
New releases are probably digital through most of the path as you say , you get the worst of both worlds.
Vinyl labels ranged from Deutche Gramaphone and Angel at the top to Polydor and GRT at the bottom.
For those with deep pockets, there's some really nice tts on the market. None that I'll ever own. For those of us that have to earn our money digital is pretty attractive. The amount of information that's on a BluRay would be hard to deal with analogue. Still vinyl (from then) has it's virtue
_________________
When the first clock was invented, how did they know what time to set it to?
No point being pessimistic; it probably would't work anyway.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| 416ray4538 wrote: | My vinyl is old too
New releases are probably digital through most of the path as you say , you get the worst of both worlds.
Vinyl labels ranged from Deutche Gramaphone and Angel at the top to Polydor and GRT at the bottom.
For those with deep pockets, there's some really nice tts on the market. None that I'll ever own. For those of us that have to earn our money digital is pretty attractive. The amount of information that's on a BluRay would be hard to deal with analogue. Still vinyl (from then) has it's virtue |
Well i see we look for different stuff from our source.. I think i have digged true around 500-700 recording and prints from Deutche Gramaphone, and i never found just one i wanted to keep, they all sound like they hang the mic from the roof dipped in a bucket of water. Its extremely boring flat limited sound.
Im all into Philips, Some 1st edition Decca, old Columbia/ CBS And many labels who made Jazz like Verve steppelchase and others.
Polydor EMI Deutche Gramaphone are quite sure to be donated to someone else.
Some of it has much to do with the equipment i use.
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416ray4538
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 517
Location: near Toronto Ont
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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In the late '70's Linn had a rumoured working prototype that used a tiny jet of water to read the vinyl groove. The jet was apparently so tiny that it dried in the time it took for the platter to turn 360 deg. The company claim was that the pickup caused zero wear and was sensitive enough to pick up spatial information from mono recordings. No doubt this was dependant on top quality recordings.
Now that would be a cool addition to the toys.
And for the trivia buffs : 5.1 can still be called "stereo" since stereo means "solid" , no reference to the number of channels used to achieve "solid" sound
_________________
When the first clock was invented, how did they know what time to set it to?
No point being pessimistic; it probably would't work anyway.
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416ray4538
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 517
Location: near Toronto Ont
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | 416ray4538 wrote: | My vinyl is old too
New releases are probably digital through most of the path as you say , you get the worst of both worlds.
Vinyl labels ranged from Deutche Gramaphone and Angel at the top to Polydor and GRT at the bottom.
For those with deep pockets, there's some really nice tts on the market. None that I'll ever own. For those of us that have to earn our money digital is pretty attractive. The amount of information that's on a BluRay would be hard to deal with analogue. Still vinyl (from then) has it's virtue |
Well i see we look for different stuff from our source.. I think i have digged true around 500-700 recording and prints from Deutche Gramaphone, and i never found just one i wanted to keep, they all sound like they hang the mic from the roof dipped in a bucket of water. Its extremely boring flat limited sound.
Im all into Philips, Some 1st edition Decca, old Columbia/ CBS And many labels who made Jazz like Verve steppelchase and others.
Polydor EMI Deutche Gramaphone are quite sure to be donated to someone else.
Some of it has much to do with the equipment i use. |
You're probably right about the Deutche pressings. I'm going from memory on these and the ones I remember I played on a McCurdy tt and were recorded in a large hall. Berlin Philharmonic orchestra. I worked in a radio station and I liked these pressings. Very quiet and clean. No doubt recording an orchestra is a challenge to get right.
_________________
When the first clock was invented, how did they know what time to set it to?
No point being pessimistic; it probably would't work anyway.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Playing vinyl have a lot to do with different kind of pressings fitting to specifik markeds/ type of turntables and picup arengements.
Pop Rock records are mostly made to be played on entry level gear, not chalenging cheep MM pickups tracking ability, And 45rpm Maxi singels are produced for the PA marked with PA players with that kind of MM pickups and quite heavy arms.
Those records i mention and prefer will only perform well on extreme well balanced vinyl setups able to track the very high frequence and dynamic range. If played on a low/ mid level pickup it will make a lot of distortion, like those kind of stylus will never be able to folow the grove wall.
So playing the records intendet for low/ mid level gear on a high level setup will just sound boring and liveless, Compared to whats possible.
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