| Author |
Message |
Georg
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: Digital sources and Cine 8 |
|
|
Hi guys. Great to have found you! Pull up your laz-boy, grab your cappuccino freddo and read on:
I have a Cine 8 and am moving my HT to another room. So I thought I'd finally get into HD while at it (yeah, I know it took me some time...).
So far the pj was playing after a Dune F [DVD>SDI>Dune F>RGBHV>Cine8(5 BNCs)]. HD sources will be at least a media player (mp) or PC.
So my input options (please, add/remove & comment on preference):
(1) HDMI mp/pc output>HDMI-to-YPbPr converter>Dune F passthrough (no upscaling etc)*>Cine8 RGBHV
(2) HDMI mp/pc output>Greg Eisemann internal card (unless I have misunderstood info on his website, it replaces the standard port 3 card: http://www.eisemann-theater.com/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=73&op=page)
(3) YPbPr mp/pc output**>Dune F passthrough (no upscaling etc)*>Cine8 RGBHV
(4) HDMI mp/pc output>Moome etc. HDMI-to-RGBHV external card>RGBHV>Dune F passthrough (no upscaling etc)>Cine8 RGBHV
* Vigatec states this as passthrough, but this might refer solely to scaling, since output will be RGBHV rather than the input YPbPr. On the other hand it might be possible to setup the Dune to output YPbPr when input is YPbPr.
** This assumes full HD can be output over YPbPr
So, one question is what the external cards (such as Moome's) do: is it only a conversion of digital HDMI to analog RGBHV so that it is compatible with the CRT's input?
Is there any difference between the external cards and the internal cards available for some models?
I believe Moome has one for some NEC's and some Sony's, Greg Eisemann has one for Cine 8 (again, unless I have misunderstood his website) etc.
Does the CRT pj turn whatever it is fed into analog RGBHV or YPbPr and project the result of this conversion? If that is the case, there should be no difference between the same card connected externally and internally.
Assuming this is correct, if you feed the pj a ready-to-project analog signal it goes straight to the pj's final stages prior to projection, whereas if you feed it the digital signal into Moome & Co. internal card, the card converts it into analog and feeds it to the same place it would end up straight from the pj's RGBHV or YPbPr BNCs).
Next chapter in my concerns is HDCP: if I backup my BD's (say, with DVDFab) onto my HDD and play them from there either through a mp or through the PC itself, sending the HDMI (or YPbPr) signal to the pj over any of the aforementioned routes, does the HDCP protection stop me from watching the movie from my pj (the pj being pre-HDCP)?
If so, am I scr*** unless I use Fury?
Does this differ if I am playing my retail BD straight from my BD-drive in the PC or mp (I would guess that any difference would occur only if backing up the BD removes HDCP)?
Thank you in advance to all who end up having the patience to read through all this, let alone answer it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey, what about the simpliest solution? RGBHV directly from pc to Cine8. (well in this case you can't use your media player, but this is the cheapest easiest way to go, also no HDCP problems for sure)
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
You will have HDCP issues, cause your computer wont be HDCP compliant with that connection type of RGBHV
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Georg
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I should have also provided these:
dvd-p to Dune F (in new setup) 10m (33')
Dune F to pj 1m (3')
mp to pj approx. 9.5-10m (33')
pc to pj at best 9.5-10m (33') but if conveniently placed f/ everyday pc use 14-15m (45')
There is the possibility that DVD>SDI>Dune F becomes redundant (if I see that I get the same picture quality from the mp>hdmi>???>pj). It would be convenient, but frustrating at decommissioning such expensive equipment...
I would rather avoid long vga runs. My guess, and correct me, is that such long analog runs would take their toll in signal quality. If I end up using the YPbPr from the mp I would probably place the mp closer to the pj and run the co-axial to the pre-pro, rather than place the mp next to the pre-pro and run the YPbPr co-axials to the pj.
Besides any additional ideas, that I welcome, I would also appreciate your comments on my thoughts.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RayN999
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 207
Location: Minneapolis, MN
TV/Projector: Sony VPL-VW60 and Toshiba 65H84 CRT RPTV
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You will still need a Moome box or HDFury to handle the HDCP problem. Either of them can do the digital to RGB transcoding as well.
Ray
_________________
Ray Nelson
N9QBV
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Georg
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RayN999 wrote: | You will still need a Moome box or HDFury to handle the HDCP problem. Either of them can do the digital to RGB transcoding as well.
Ray |
Does this apply even if I use the YPbPr output of the mp or PC?
Do ripped bd's still have HDCP?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RayN999
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 207
Location: Minneapolis, MN
TV/Projector: Sony VPL-VW60 and Toshiba 65H84 CRT RPTV
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it depends on the content, but most players seem to limit the resolution when using those component outputs. Yeah, that does bypass the HDCP issue, but I think that a lot of the content is now restricted....
I'm not sure on the issue of ripped BDs.
Ray
_________________
Ray Nelson
N9QBV
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Georg
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RayN999 wrote: | I think it depends on the content, but most players seem to limit the resolution when using those component outputs. Yeah, that does bypass the HDCP issue, but I think that a lot of the content is now restricted....
I'm not sure on the issue of ripped BDs.
Ray |
OK, so assuming that a mp claims that it will output 1080i over its YPbPr out (and several, if not all, do), can the disc impose a limitation?
I apologize if these appear as naive or ignorant questions, but the fact is that, since I have only been watching DVDs, my information on HD copy protection methods and limitations is from scattered comments I may have picked up here and there, that are maybe biased. For example, if the following paragraphs are true, Fury's claim that in essence I cannot watch HD w/o Fury is true only f/ watching bd's from a consumer bd-player.
If I use a "normal" HDMI-to-YPbPr converter (without specific anti-HDCP circuits or whatever it is Fury and Moome are using) will HDCP stop me from watching because it is the player that is expecting some kind of reply from the pj (in which case I need to check with the mp manufacturer whether it complies with HDCP)?
My understanding (but, again, I may be totally off here) is that HDCP is a hardware thing. It is a communication between the transmitter of the movie (mp, bd-player, etc) and the receiver (TV, pj) prior to movie transmission. The mp/bd-p checks whether the pj is licensed to display digital HD content and if the pj does not respond with its HDCP key no movie info leaves the mp/bd-p. So, if the mp manufacturer says no such demands are made by his mp and no response is required, then there is no issue even with a "simple" HDMI-to-YPbPr converter (which is HDCP compliant).
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RayN999
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 207
Location: Minneapolis, MN
TV/Projector: Sony VPL-VW60 and Toshiba 65H84 CRT RPTV
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm pretty sure that the content on the disc can dictate whether the player output will be HDCP encrypted or not.
Honestly, I'm not really sure.
Ray
_________________
Ray Nelson
N9QBV
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Georg
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RayN999 wrote: | I'm pretty sure that the content on the disc can dictate whether the player output will be HDCP encrypted or not.
Honestly, I'm not really sure.
Ray |
Breaking news says you are right. There is a flag on the disc (but not on rips...).
Assuming, therefore, I limit myself to playing only backups of my bd's, how about my other big concern?
If the quality of the hdmi-to-YPbPr conversion algorithms (or whatever) is equal, is there an image-quality advantage to using an internal card rather than an external one such as a normal HDMI-component adaptor or Moome's?
Reason I'm asking is that my guess is that the internal cards just do internally the D-A conversion and their YPbPr (or RGB) output ends up exactly where the wires leaving the back of the pj's BNC inputs go. If this is true, the only difference between an internal and an external card would be esthetics and "factory look". In this case, options 1,2 and 3 should be image-quality-wise equal. Hence, the -intermediate, you are not off the hook yet- question is: if YPbPr out from a mp is 1080i, is there an advantage (strictly in image quality) to using the mp hdmi output and transforming it to YPbPr outside the mp (1,2,4) over just taking the YPbPr straight from the mp (3)?
My options as I see them [slight changes since Dune only outputs RGBHV (and DVI)] were:
(1) HDMI mp/pc output>HDMI-to-YPbPr converter>Dune F YPbPr-to-RGBHV>Cine8 RGBHV input
(2) HDMI mp/pc output>Greg Eisemann internal card (unless I have misunderstood info on his website, it replaces the standard port 3 card: http://www.eisemann-theater.com/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=73&op=page)
(3) YPbPr mp/pc output>Dune F YPbPr-to-RGBHV>Cine8 RGBHV input
(4) HDMI mp/pc output>Moome etc. HDMI-to-RGBHV external card>RGBHV>Dune F passthrough (no upscaling etc)>Cine8 RGBHV input
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nombz
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
HDCP is not an issue on backups (as you have seen) and if you want to use BD on the PC just get anydvd hd. It should remove HDCP "on-the-fly".
_________________
BarcoGraphics 1208s/2 and BarcoGraphics 1209s/E
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
HDCP is only an issue on genuine discs. And its not an issue with all of them either. But in order to be HDCP compliant, youll need to be outputting in digital to a HDCP compliant device.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Georg
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nombz wrote: | | HDCP is not an issue on backups (as you have seen) and if you want to use BD on the PC just get anydvd hd. It should remove HDCP "on-the-fly". |
Details gradually falling in place. Thanks.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Georg
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Please, anyone? There is no way I can directly compare these myself so I am relying on your impartial experiences.
Media player to Cine 8 options:
media player YPbPr output to PJ (3' cable)
media player hdmi via Moome or HDFury to PJ (3' cable)
media player hdmi to Greg Eisemann's internal card
I would appreciate qualitative and quantitative comparisons. Thanks.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
