| Author |
Message |
Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've already been aware that vinyl is far better than CD.... Just that I have never owned a good album so they all have the normal pops and scratchiness that everyone here knows of.
I just bought what you could call my 'first' turntable, I've owned a few before, but they were sub-par in performance. The unit I just purchased is a Pioneer PL-600 (the 1978-80 model, NOT the cheap ass 1986-1988 model) Pioneer decided to make identical model numbers for totally different tables, and it took a while to actually find the table I had bought while I was researching it.
It is identical to the 1978 (supposed) flagship model that pioneer made, the PL-600X (which is a black plinth vs the silver plinth of the PL-600). Other than that, they are identical units visually.
Anyway, Since I have now aqquired the table, I need a cartridge for it, and some NEW vinyl. I am waiting to purchase any vinyl until I get the player here and give it a good go over. It needs restoration, as it was sitting on a shelf in the guys house I got it from for over 20 years until I had asked him if he had a turntable.
The PL-600 is a fully automatic direct drive unit, unlike its lighter, cheaper, black belt driven mid to late 80s counterpart. Its not the most amazing unit, however it isn't the worst I've encountered.
I am highly looking forward to getting it!! 
_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CxTurbo
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 425
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| WTS wrote: | | I guess none of you guys have heard a real digital setup then if you still think vinyl sounds better,lol. Yes it sounds nice but it's not as accurate/clean/fast etc etc by any stretch. The digital sound you hear from your typical CD player does not make for a good digital playback system. I've been at the top of the vinyl hill in the past with all the direct to vinyl cuts etc with top of the line equipement and it was nice at the "time", but each to their own. Flame suit is on. |
I enjoy all my MOFI Gold discs also. Just as with vinyl CD is hit and miss.
My digital system contains a Bryston BCD-1 transport with a Bryston BDA1 DAC and a great Bryston 4BSST amp.
Love music regardless. I Personally find digital too clinical sometimes. Both have their place in my home.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
El Duderino
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 4653
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
A/B level matched comparison of Dire Straits “Money for nothing”- 1986 release mix and 2006 remix with excessive loudness war era signal processing and DSP usage.
http://youtu.be/7UjQc0dM4H4
Recording engineers didn’t have signal processing DSPs in 1986 or a demand from studios to outshout the competition.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| El Duderino wrote: | | ChrisWiggles wrote: | | No, I purchsed some new releases which are sourced from 44.1/16, whereas original pressings are sourced from tape. |
So how do you know both the 44.1/16 source and the tape source had same mastering and Eq'ing? How do you know there wasn't a remix along the way? Do both have similar dynamic-range on a envelope plot? Big clue there.
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | Not at 44.1/16. You need more resolution. |
16b linear PCM is good for 96db S/N. Noise shaping and dither improves on that. 44.1k sampling is good for 22kHz. If you want more there always the hi-rez 96k/192k/24b hype. I think 96db and 22k is more than enough and far exceeds all analog medium and human perceptions.
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | But it can't hit the high frequencies like vinyl can. |
If you're taking ultrasonics above 22kHz, I'd cite Fletcher-Munsion and the threshold of human perceptions. Hi-rez digital can also capture ultrasonics, but testing of ultrasonic content in both LP and hi-rez digital has show this to be largely noise and artifacts.
Then there's the question of your transducers and the rest of your chain to reproduce those 25-50kHz ultrasonics. Even if you have super-human hearing and perceptions. 
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | You don't know what you're talking about. |
Lame retort. I'm betting you've never done something as straight-forward as digitizing one of your precious LPs to a .wav file and A/Bing it before talking out of your ass. |
You're interested in a pissing match.
I'm not.
Vinyl is better, and I have accepted that fact and enjoy my system. That is all.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | El Duderino wrote: | | ChrisWiggles wrote: | | No, I purchsed some new releases which are sourced from 44.1/16, whereas original pressings are sourced from tape. |
So how do you know both the 44.1/16 source and the tape source had same mastering and Eq'ing? How do you know there wasn't a remix along the way? Do both have similar dynamic-range on a envelope plot? Big clue there.
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | Not at 44.1/16. You need more resolution. |
16b linear PCM is good for 96db S/N. Noise shaping and dither improves on that. 44.1k sampling is good for 22kHz. If you want more there always the hi-rez 96k/192k/24b hype. I think 96db and 22k is more than enough and far exceeds all analog medium and human perceptions.
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | But it can't hit the high frequencies like vinyl can. |
If you're taking ultrasonics above 22kHz, I'd cite Fletcher-Munsion and the threshold of human perceptions. Hi-rez digital can also capture ultrasonics, but testing of ultrasonic content in both LP and hi-rez digital has show this to be largely noise and artifacts.
Then there's the question of your transducers and the rest of your chain to reproduce those 25-50kHz ultrasonics. Even if you have super-human hearing and perceptions.
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | You don't know what you're talking about. |
Lame retort. I'm betting you've never done something as straight-forward as digitizing one of your precious LPs to a .wav file and A/Bing it before talking out of your ass. |
You're interested in a pissing match.
I'm not.
Vinyl is better, and I have accepted that fact and enjoy my system. That is all. |
God damn Wiggles, you are such a flaming douchebag. You REALLY put forth the effort into being a giant, flaming bag of douche.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you for the completely irrelevant and un-called for insult.
I aired my opinions, get trolled, then get flamed for not responding to the troll.
Go home and beat up your kids. 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | Thank you for the completely irrelevant and un-called for insult.
I aired my opinions, get trolled, then get flamed for not responding to the troll.
Go home and beat up your kids. |
God damn you are oblivious.
You know I can actually associate with some of what you're talking about with respect to vinyl - there is definitely a very real difference between it and CD. Whether that's due to the medium or the mastering, I haven't listened enough to say. But I do like the way a new vinyl album sounds on a good setup. Is it "better" than CD as a medium? In terms of what it can do, no; however in terms of much of the content mastered for it, yes it can offer a better presentation in terms of dynamics and sonic detail. But that's hardly a hard and fast rule, as there are plenty examples of exceptionally well mastered redbook CDs out there too.
Too bad the way you present yourself and your opinions ("Vinyl is better and I have accepted that fact" - f*cking really?) makes even someone who agrees with you want to disagree with you if not for any other reason that what a self-aggrandized douche you can be.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | | ChrisWiggles wrote: | Thank you for the completely irrelevant and un-called for insult.
I aired my opinions, get trolled, then get flamed for not responding to the troll.
Go home and beat up your kids. |
God damn you are oblivious.
You know I can actually associate with some of what you're talking about with respect to vinyl - there is definitely a very real difference between it and CD. Whether that's due to the medium or the mastering, I haven't listened enough to say. But I do like the way a new vinyl album sounds on a good setup. Is it "better" than CD as a medium? In terms of what it can do, no; however in terms of much of the content mastered for it, yes it can offer a better presentation in terms of dynamics and sonic detail. But that's hardly a hard and fast rule, as there are plenty examples of exceptionally well mastered redbook CDs out there too.
Too bad the way you present yourself and your opinions ("Vinyl is better and I have accepted that fact" - f*cking really?) makes even someone who agrees with you want to disagree with you if not for any other reason that what a self-aggrandized douche you can be. |
Seriously, what is your problem?
I come post something positive and surprising to me that is entirely about my learning experience and my excitement about a new avenue in this hobby, and you just scream and moan and yell over something THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.
That's all you ever do. I tried asking you things repeatedly, and all you do is screech at me and call me names.
I would ask you how on earth anything I wrote was even remotely self-aggrandizing, but you will take three pages never responding and just posting more nonsense.
I really don't care.
Vinyl sounds significantly better to me, and I'm happy about that.
Try to have a nicer and more pleasant life. Please don't shoot innocent people when you snap.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | ChrisWiggles wrote: | Thank you for the completely irrelevant and un-called for insult.
I aired my opinions, get trolled, then get flamed for not responding to the troll.
Go home and beat up your kids. |
God damn you are oblivious.
You know I can actually associate with some of what you're talking about with respect to vinyl - there is definitely a very real difference between it and CD. Whether that's due to the medium or the mastering, I haven't listened enough to say. But I do like the way a new vinyl album sounds on a good setup. Is it "better" than CD as a medium? In terms of what it can do, no; however in terms of much of the content mastered for it, yes it can offer a better presentation in terms of dynamics and sonic detail. But that's hardly a hard and fast rule, as there are plenty examples of exceptionally well mastered redbook CDs out there too.
Too bad the way you present yourself and your opinions ("Vinyl is better and I have accepted that fact" - f*cking really?) makes even someone who agrees with you want to disagree with you if not for any other reason that what a self-aggrandized douche you can be. |
Seriously, what is your problem?
I come post something positive and surprising to me that is entirely about my learning experience and my excitement about a new avenue in this hobby, and you just scream and moan and yell over something THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.
That's all you ever do. I tried asking you things repeatedly, and all you do is screech at me and call me names.
I would ask you how on earth anything I wrote was even remotely self-aggrandizing, but you will take three pages never responding and just posting more nonsense.
I really don't care.
Vinyl sounds significantly better to me, and I'm happy about that.
Try to have a nicer and more pleasant life. Please don't shoot innocent people when you snap. |
For someone who supposedly doesn't care, you seem quite defensive.
And telling others to have a nicer life and talking about them snapping...well that's the douchebag icing on the hypocrisy cake.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I enjoy cake. It is quite delicious. Try adding some positive experiences to your life. Seriously.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Raging Douchebag wrote: | | I enjoy cake. It is quite delicious. Try adding some positive experiences to your life. Seriously. |
Still a douche.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Raging Douchebag wrote: | | I enjoy cake. It is quite delicious. Try adding some positive experiences to your life. Seriously. |
Newsflash, ******* - claiming your that your personal opinion on a subjective issue is fact is what makes you a douche. Acting like a f*cking maniac throughout an entire conversation without knowing what's going on or what you're talking about makes you a douche. And me having to spell it out for you like you're a teenager who just flashed his tiny pecker to a crowd and then asked "what's wrong"? is what makes you oblivious. And a douche.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you paused and thought for a second about what I said, you'd realize it isn't douchey at all. My perspective on the matter shifted from one of subjective preference and personal opinion alone, to reaching a conclusion that it is actually objectively superior in resolution, not simply a subjective preference for a different (or distorted sound). That's the only reason I used the word "fact."
Maybe you could leave that douchey silliness behind, and have a civil and adult conversation about something else that isn't 'off-topic' entertainment?
But no.
Thank you for thread-crapping.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | | If you paused and thought for a second about what I said, you'd realize it isn't douchey at all. My perspective on the matter shifted from one of subjective preference and personal opinion alone, to reaching a conclusion that it is actually objectively superior in resolution, not simply a subjective preference for a different (or distorted sound). That's the only reason I used the word "fact." |
Yet when presented with significant evidence to the contrary of your position, you dismiss it all out of hand in order to maintain the illusion of having some sort of "fact" back your position. But you rail on people when they do the same. That's what makes you a douchebag.
| ChrisWiggles wrote: | Maybe you could leave that douchey silliness behind, and have a civil and adult conversation about something else that isn't 'off-topic' entertainment?
But no.
Thank you for thread-crapping. |
You're incorrectly presupposing that your retarded thread and position aren't crap to begin with. See what I did? I took an opinion and stated it as fact. See how defensive you've been about that? Yet you wonder why such behavior has spurned people to challenge your statements. And then you demand to be communicated with like an adult when you don't show the slightest inkling of wanting to do so yourself. Like I said before, f*cking oblivious.
If you don't like having your ideas challenged or discussed, then don't post them in a public forum.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | | My dad could beat up your dad, stupidface! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Right on par with the level of substance of a typical post from you. If there's one thing that can be said about you with confidence, it's that you don't disappoint with your douchebaggery.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LMASSO you kids are funnnnnny!
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | | Right on par with the level of substance of a typical post from you. If there's one thing that can be said about you with confidence, it's that you don't disappoint with your douchebaggery. |
Uh-oh, are we playing the have-the-last-word game?
You're it, booger-butt!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
A douchebag like you would care about that. I've already gotten you to sh*t all over your own lame thread, so if having the last word makes you feel like you've achieved something, have at it. My work here is done - now go back to felching yourself.
Oh, and I raise your lame "last word" attempt and see you a "if you reply to this you hate freedom, children, and America." It's true because I say so.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Mirror and glue, poopy face!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
