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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: If they only knew how bad LCD/DLP really looks! |
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Just got back from a friends place where we watched Avatar. It looked like sh*t!! Colors washed out, pixels showing, and some rain-bowing. But the 92 inch screen made the other guys gawk that they do not know what is possible.. When I am done mounting my VV1, I will show them who their daddy is. 
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tanwn
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Daddy is 9inch CRT
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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What does that make 12 inch?
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Um, LCD and DLP are completely different display technologies. I'm guessing this was a DLP if you saw rainbows as LCD projectors do not exhibit this artifact.
Do you remember what model of projector you saw?
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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What's a VV1 ?
Just because you saw one bad digital setup, that doesn't mean ALL digitals look bad...If that reasoning were sound, I'd have never pursued CRT projector home theater, because MOST of the CRT setups I've seen looked TERRIBLE, waaaaayyyy worse than what you can get just by plunking a digital down and turning the focus ring....
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: |
Do you remember what model of projector you saw? |
Who cares... It obviously wasnt a CRT was it... You know as well as anyone else here should know, a Vidikron Vision One will smash any digital... Even if it is only a Marquee....
| Elaine Benes wrote: | What's a VV1 ?
Vidikron Vision One, id have thought that was quite obvious....
Just because you saw one bad digital setup, that doesn't mean ALL digitals look bad...If that reasoning were sound, I'd have never pursued CRT projector home theater, because MOST of the CRT setups I've seen looked TERRIBLE, waaaaayyyy worse than what you can get just by plunking a digital down and turning the focus ring.... |
As for the rest.... Well... Im yet to see a digital look smooth and natural... And im yet to see one last more than 4,000 hours without a failure or MEGA faded colours...
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Well... Im yet to see a digital look smooth and natural... |
Funny, of the dozens of DIY CRT setups I've seen, that's usually a euphemism for unfocussed....
When did you last look at a GOOD digital, well setup ? Just curious ....
My Buddy's Epson, playing concert BD's looks like you're THERE, in person, can't get much smoother or more natural than that...
There's good and bad with both digital and crt, and more and more with the newer LCD/DLP's, there's getting to be fewer and fewer things that CRT projectors do "better"....
Most of the "smooth and natural" look you're referring to is actually the filmic stutter you're used to seeing in a movie theater, if it was actually SMOOTH, motion, you'd likely hate it. Try watching something with frame interpolation, it looks terrible(imho), but its really "smooth".
Those of us brought up watching film are not seeking "smooth", but rather that 24fps stutter that we associate with watching a good movie in the dark...
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: |
Do you remember what model of projector you saw? |
Who cares... It obviously wasnt a CRT was it... You know as well as anyone else here should know, a Vidikron Vision One will smash any digital... Even if it is only a Marquee.... |
Ha, I own digital. I know this is primarily a CRT forum, and I'm not looking to get into a "which is better" debate because that's pointless, but there's a vast spectrum of digital projectors out there. Saying that all digitals suck when you just watched an 8-year old 480P DLP is like saying all CRTs suck because you just saw an old CRT RPTV that was misaligned, blurry, and dim. Making such sweeping generalizations from such poor samples (and sample sizes) does no one any good.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: |
Do you remember what model of projector you saw? |
Who cares... It obviously wasnt a CRT was it... You know as well as anyone else here should know, a Vidikron Vision One will smash any digital... Even if it is only a Marquee.... |
Ha, I own digital. I know this is primarily a CRT forum, and I'm not looking to get into a "which is better" debate because that's pointless, but there's a vast spectrum of digital projectors out there. Saying that all digitals suck when you just watched an 8-year old 480P DLP is like saying all CRTs suck because you just saw an old CRT RPTV that was misaligned, blurry, and dim. Making such sweeping generalizations from such poor samples (and sample sizes) does no one any good. |
The company I work for make polarizers for Hitachi, Sony, Barco, realD etc......All engineers say is that none compare to a high end CRT. The only ones that do come close are the lcos.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: |
Do you remember what model of projector you saw? |
Who cares... It obviously wasnt a CRT was it... You know as well as anyone else here should know, a Vidikron Vision One will smash any digital... Even if it is only a Marquee.... |
Ha, I own digital. I know this is primarily a CRT forum, and I'm not looking to get into a "which is better" debate because that's pointless, but there's a vast spectrum of digital projectors out there. Saying that all digitals suck when you just watched an 8-year old 480P DLP is like saying all CRTs suck because you just saw an old CRT RPTV that was misaligned, blurry, and dim. Making such sweeping generalizations from such poor samples (and sample sizes) does no one any good. |
The company I work for make polarizers for Hitachi, Sony, Barco, realD etc......All engineers say is that none compare to a high end CRT. The only ones that do come close are the lcos. |
In what aspect do they not compare?
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | Most of the "smooth and natural" look you're referring to is actually the filmic stutter you're used to seeing in a movie theater, if it was actually SMOOTH, motion, you'd likely hate it. Try watching something with frame interpolation, it looks terrible(imho), but its really "smooth".
Those of us brought up watching film are not seeking "smooth", but rather that 24fps stutter that we associate with watching a good movie in the dark... |
The motion is a totally separate issue. I think what he's referring to as "smooth" is what most of us usually refer to as "film-like", meaning no digital artifacts such as pixels, screen-door, banding, rainbows, or mosquito noise.
On-off contrast ratio and the "smooth" or "film-like" feel are the two things I still love about CRT that digital hasn't quite been able to replicate. Even the best digitals still have certain artifacts that just don't quite have CRT's very film-like feel. LCoS is very, very close to my eyes and tastes. Like you said, digitals do some other things much better, so the overall value proposition is different (not worse/better), and of course they get better every year.
4k is a major turning point for me. Even without 4k source material, the pixels will be so small on home-cinema-sized screens, that will eliminate one of my biggest objections with digitals. I finally won't be able to see pixels or aliasing from my close seating position - even on small high-contrast elements like titles with fine serifs. Think of it like Apple's iPhone 4 "Retina Display" on your screen. 
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | When did you last look at a GOOD digital, well setup ? Just curious ....
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Depends what you call a "good" digital... They arent exactly a common thing for under $20,000 here.
As for well set up, only 4 days ago, i put two in, 2 weeks ago i put one in, and about 3 months ago i put one on a 225 inch 16:9 screen. All were well set up, there would be absolutely nothing you could do to set them up any better...
And im not saying they didnt look good either, cause they did, but they are over sharp, and i dont like that.
| HogPilot wrote: | | Saying that all digitals suck when you just watched an 8-year old 480P DLP.... |
Hold on a minute here, i didnt say all digitals suck, i didnt even say any of them do. I dont even use that term. Vacuum cleaners suck. Digitals have their place ( after a couple thousand hours their place is generally in the bin... ) and i have 2 digitals here myself. Also have 4 CRTs. Even my pair of Sony 1001-QMs looks better and has more depth with DVD or VHS than the digitals i have here, or the TW-1000 Epson i adjusted for a friend 2 years ago.
Ecrabb, when 4k becomes a common thing for an affordable price, it will be a very big step up in the quality that can be achieved by a digital, but itll be a while off yet.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | Saying that all digitals suck when you just watched an 8-year old 480P DLP.... |
Hold on a minute here, i didnt say all digitals suck, i didnt even say any of them do. I dont even use that term. Vacuum cleaners suck. Digitals have their place ( after a couple thousand hours their place is generally in the bin... ) and i have 2 digitals here myself. Also have 4 CRTs. Even my pair of Sony 1001-QMs looks better and has more depth with DVD or VHS than the digitals i have here, or the TW-1000 Epson i adjusted for a friend 2 years ago. |
That comment was aimed at the OP, hence the "when you just watched..." - my apologies if you thought that was aimed at you.
The idea that all digitals sh*t after a couple thousand hours is a commonly propagated one here, and is also not true for a huge number of digital projectors. Sure, ones made in the early 2000's when digitals were brand new, or bargin bin projectors aren't reliable, but there are plenty of people who have owned their digitals for years and never had a problem, save replacing the bulb.
I'm curious as to what digitals you have, especially because the one that you mentioned - the TW-1000 - is 5 years old in design and an LCD. At that time LCDs had lackluster performance all the way around, and you didn't have to go far to find a better machine - in fact, I still find LCD to be the least impressive projection technology available. If that is indeed your benchmark, I'm not surprised you're underwhelmed with what you've seen.
I don't think I've ever watched VHS on a projector, nor do I have a desire to - the large image (at least that my digital can achieve) just can't be supported by VHS's low resolution, and frankly DVD struggles as well. Most of my collection is Blu-ray because that format offers the minimum resolution required to prevent the image from falling apart on a larger screen. But then again I'm watching an RS55 on a 135" wide 2.37:1 AT screen with an Isco3 anamorphic lens, and that's just not an image one could reasonably attain with a CRT (or at least a single CRT).
And this brings me to my point - depending on the constraints of one's budget, setup, environment, and quality of the display, one can easily shift the advantage CRT, LCD, DLP, or LCoS in any discussion. None is intrinsically better than the other - they all have their benefits and drawbacks.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | Saying that all digitals suck when you just watched an 8-year old 480P DLP.... |
Hold on a minute here, i didnt say all digitals suck, i didnt even say any of them do. I dont even use that term. Vacuum cleaners suck. Digitals have their place ( after a couple thousand hours their place is generally in the bin... ) and i have 2 digitals here myself. Also have 4 CRTs. Even my pair of Sony 1001-QMs looks better and has more depth with DVD or VHS than the digitals i have here, or the TW-1000 Epson i adjusted for a friend 2 years ago. |
That comment was aimed at the OP, hence the "when you just watched..." - my apologies if you thought that was aimed at you.
The idea that all digitals sh*t after a couple thousand hours is a commonly propagated one here, and is also not true for a huge number of digital projectors. Sure, ones made in the early 2000's when digitals were brand new, or bargin bin projectors aren't reliable, but there are plenty of people who have owned their digitals for years and never had a problem, save replacing the bulb.
I'm curious as to what digitals you have, especially because the one that you mentioned - the TW-1000 - is 5 years old in design and an LCD. At that time LCDs had lackluster performance all the way around, and you didn't have to go far to find a better machine - in fact, I still find LCD to be the least impressive projection technology available. If that is indeed your benchmark, I'm not surprised you're underwhelmed with what you've seen.
I don't think I've ever watched VHS on a projector, nor do I have a desire to - the large image (at least that my digital can achieve) just can't be supported by VHS's low resolution, and frankly DVD struggles as well. Most of my collection is Blu-ray because that format offers the minimum resolution required to prevent the image from falling apart on a larger screen. But then again I'm watching an RS55 on a 135" wide 2.37:1 AT screen with an Isco3 anamorphic lens, and that's just not an image one could reasonably attain with a CRT (or at least a single CRT).
And this brings me to my point - depending on the constraints of one's budget, setup, environment, and quality of the display, one can easily shift the advantage CRT, LCD, DLP, or LCoS in any discussion. None is intrinsically better than the other - they all have their benefits and drawbacks. |
Bravo !
Tremendously well said !
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | And this brings me to my point - depending on the constraints of one's budget, setup, environment, and quality of the display, one can easily shift the advantage CRT, LCD, DLP, or LCoS in any discussion. None is intrinsically better than the other - they all have their benefits and drawbacks. |
+100.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: |
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So is everybody all warm and fuzzy now????? 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Where's my glass of Templeton Rye?
Ah, there it is.
Yep. Warm and fuzzy, now.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: |
That comment was aimed at the OP, hence the "when you just watched..." - my apologies if you thought that was aimed at you. No mate my appologies I thought it was aimed at me yes
The idea that all digitals sh*t after a couple thousand hours is a commonly propagated one here, and is also not true for a huge number of digital projectors. Sure, ones made in the early 2000's when digitals were brand new, or bargin bin projectors aren't reliable, but there are plenty of people who have owned their digitals for years and never had a problem, save replacing the bulb. I dont subscribe to that, ive been maintaining a few digitals for a number of years now and as well as my own projectors at home, i havent found this 500 hr or so drop off to be an issue. Ive also pushed them way past their rated hours with no issues. But when they do die, that is it. Dead. In the bin, and that is all they are good for. Ive never had one die on an out of spec bulb, all have died within the rated running time of the current bulb.
I'm curious as to what digitals you have, especially because the one that you mentioned - the TW-1000 - is 5 years old in design and an LCD. At that time LCDs had lackluster performance all the way around, and you didn't have to go far to find a better machine - in fact, I still find LCD to be the least impressive projection technology available. If that is indeed your benchmark, I'm not surprised you're underwhelmed with what you've seen. Epson EMP S5, Infocus IN34, and a Sony VPL CX125. Nothing fabulous. The Epson TW 1000 was very high end for a budget priced projector when the one in question was purchased, and for the $2,800 AUD paid for it at the time with a 110 16:9 screen included, it was rather a very good buy for this country back then. Being underwelmed by what ive seen has nothing to do with these, ive seen hundreds more.
I don't think I've ever watched VHS on a projector, nor do I have a desire to - the large image (at least that my digital can achieve) just can't be supported by VHS's low resolution ( your personal opinion, and nothing more ) , and frankly DVD struggles as well. Most of my collection is Blu-ray because that format offers the minimum resolution required to prevent the image from falling apart on a larger screen. But then again I'm watching an RS55 on a 135" wide 2.37:1 AT screen with an Isco3 anamorphic lens, and that's just not an image one could reasonably attain with a CRT (or at least a single CRT). Im using a 120 inch 4:3 screen, cause this is what i want for my retro games. VHS never looked great on any size, but CERTAINLY looks better on CRT on any size than it does on digital. That is my personal opinion, and nothing more.
And this brings me to my point - depending on the constraints of one's budget, setup, environment, and quality of the display, one can easily shift the advantage CRT, LCD, DLP, or LCoS in any discussion. None is intrinsically better than the other - they all have their benefits and drawbacks. |
Answered within the window in green to save time... Answer to the last bit is below
CRT is the ONLY format that video game light guns will work with, hence, perfect choice for me to play point bank on the PS1 on a 120 inch screen. Works perfectly. This CANT be done on anything digital, cause they plain dont work that way. Again though this is a personal preference i have that you clearly do not.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | That comment was aimed at the OP, hence the "when you just watched..." - my apologies if you thought that was aimed at you. |
No mate my appologies I thought it was aimed at me yes |
No worries, it's the internet, it happens 
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | The idea that all digitals sh*t after a couple thousand hours is a commonly propagated one here, and is also not true for a huge number of digital projectors. Sure, ones made in the early 2000's when digitals were brand new, or bargin bin projectors aren't reliable, but there are plenty of people who have owned their digitals for years and never had a problem, save replacing the bulb. |
I dont subscribe to that, ive been maintaining a few digitals for a number of years now and as well as my own projectors at home, i havent found this 500 hr or so drop off to be an issue. Ive also pushed them way past their rated hours with no issues. But when they do die, that is it. Dead. In the bin, and that is all they are good for. Ive never had one die on an out of spec bulb, all have died within the rated running time of the current bulb. |
I'll agree with you in that when many digitals go, they're harder to repair than a CRT and the vast majority of people don't bother with them but rather chuck them. However my - and others I know who own more expensive digitals - experience has been the complete opposite of you in that the chassis outlasts at least several bulbs before having any sorts of issues. But then again, I'd expect that out of a higher end projector (relatively speaking).
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | I'm curious as to what digitals you have, especially because the one that you mentioned - the TW-1000 - is 5 years old in design and an LCD. At that time LCDs had lackluster performance all the way around, and you didn't have to go far to find a better machine - in fact, I still find LCD to be the least impressive projection technology available. If that is indeed your benchmark, I'm not surprised you're underwhelmed with what you've seen. |
Epson EMP S5, Infocus IN34, and a Sony VPL CX125. Nothing fabulous. The Epson TW 1000 was very high end for a budget priced projector when the one in question was purchased, and for the $2,800 AUD paid for it at the time with a 110 16:9 screen included, it was rather a very good buy for this country back then. Being underwelmed by what ive seen has nothing to do with these, ive seen hundreds more. |
In all honesty - and this is in no way a slight on you or any of the digitals you own - but none of those even comes close to qualifying as a "good" digital in terms of PQ. I'm sure they work for what you use them for, but to use them as any sort of benchmark for what a good digital can achieve is selling digital projection technology seriously short. I'm curious, what's the "nicest" digital you've been able to see?
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | I don't think I've ever watched VHS on a projector, nor do I have a desire to - the large image (at least that my digital can achieve) just can't be supported by VHS's low resolution |
( your personal opinion, and nothing more ) |
Well, in all fairness VHS being "low resolution" for a large screen is not my personal opinion - the human eye is capable of detecting far more resolution on a large screen (or even a regular TV) than what VHS can deliver, and that's backed up by a significant body of imaging science. So for me, to say that VHS looks better on a CRT is like saying that compressed SD cable looks better on a CRT - I don't really view much of that stuff just because the picture falls apart rather quickly in terms of fidelity, so the point is moot for me. But if that comprises a large portion of what you're watching and it looks better on a CRT, you're the one who has to be happy with it
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | and frankly DVD struggles as well. Most of my collection is Blu-ray because that format offers the minimum resolution required to prevent the image from falling apart on a larger screen. But then again I'm watching an RS55 on a 135" wide 2.37:1 AT screen with an Isco3 anamorphic lens, and that's just not an image one could reasonably attain with a CRT (or at least a single CRT). |
Im using a 120 inch 4:3 screen, cause this is what i want for my retro games. VHS never looked great on any size, but CERTAINLY looks better on CRT on any size than it does on digital. That is my personal opinion, and nothing more. |
Given the digitals that you own and the content you're watching, I can certainly see why you prefer CRT - like I said before, you're the one that has to enjoy it, so if it works for you then that's all that matters In fact I think everything that you've said here about your CRTs validates my final paragraph (quoted below) in that there are lots of display technologies, and depending on the variables involved, different techs work better in different situations. In my situation, I'm using an acoustically transparent screen so the gain is pretty close to 1.0, thus I need the light output of a digital to provide watchable (10-12ftL) light levels.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | And this brings me to my point - depending on the constraints of one's budget, setup, environment, and quality of the display, one can easily shift the advantage CRT, LCD, DLP, or LCoS in any discussion. None is intrinsically better than the other - they all have their benefits and drawbacks. |
CRT is the ONLY format that video game light guns will work with, hence, perfect choice for me to play point bank on the PS1 on a 120 inch screen. Works perfectly. This CANT be done on anything digital, cause they plain dont work that way. Again though this is a personal preference i have that you clearly do not. |
I'm not familiar with light guns (maybe it's a terminology thing?), so I'm not sure what you're talking about with reference to CRT vs digitals in that respect. But it sounds like you have a neat setup that works well for you
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Light guns are a form of video game control device, shaped like a gun, and aimed at the screen to simulate shooting things. The gun sees the light output from the screen ( almost always only sees blue ) and calculates exactly where you have it pointed by the start of the flash and when the gun sees the scan line light up, the console can tell what part of the screen should be being painted at that point. The screen will flash a full black field followed instantly by a white field in most cases, some cases only blue, this way every part of every line will be lit up, and the gun will see the scanning with an LDR, tells the console, and you hit the screen in the spot youre aiming. The black field is apparently to reduce the chances you can cheat by aiming at a fluro light in the case of some guns, and some games... NES Duck Hunt is a perfect example... It will even work on a plasma display in some circumstances, but it is the only one that will, and not every time either.
The reason these light guns dont and cant work on digital type displays is cause they refresh all at once, there is no scanning. The scanning gives the console something to count before it sees the flash. Without that, the console will always think youre pointed off screen.
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