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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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yes, removing the power from U104 would solve one noise problem from U106, but that's not the source of the LINE and the main background noise, which is coming on the INT-EXT line from U106 that gets into the video chain (VIM).
I'm trying to switch it off on the VIM (INT-EXT), and in doing so, be able to keep the RGB Internal generator section still active. The noise going through U104 can be stripped using beads, but the noise on INT-EXT is more aggressive and includes the LINE. Removing INT-EXT also removes Blanking.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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So your not trying to switch pwr to the pixel processor anymore? Will you be leaving it powered?
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | So your not trying to switch pwr to the pixel processor anymore? Will you be leaving it powered? |
Well, that would be the best way to go. Being able to completely turn off U106 would make things perfect for best image, but trying to toggle it off using the remote lead me to compromise and do only the INT-EXT, because I wanted to get around a switch on the CLM faceplate.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | So your not trying to switch pwr to the pixel processor anymore? Will you be leaving it powered? |
Well, that would be the best way to go. Being able to completely turn off U106 would make things perfect for best image, but trying to toggle it off using the remote lead me to compromise and do only the INT-EXT, because I wanted to get around a switch on the CLM faceplate.
Do you have any thoughts on this? |
I guess that turning U106 on off is pushing around RGB and gamma, so it will be a lot of turning on off while calibrating.
Or maybe i'm wrong.?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well if U106 were to remain powered it has a trigger line (pin 21) which appears to be what toggles int video on/off by grounding the video to U110 by way of Q4, Q5 and Q6. Apparently this system is not functioning well and why there is noise. But if you could use that trigger line to turn off other ic's that the noise is passing through, like U104 (that I mentioned) and U4 (INT/EXT that you mention) then the noise maybe be cut off merely when exiting the internal menus.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Well if U106 were to remain powered it has a trigger line (pin 21) which appears to be what toggles int video on/off by grounding the video to U110 by way of Q4, Q5 and Q6. Apparently this system is not functioning well and why there is noise. But if you could use that trigger line to turn off other ic's that the noise is passing through, like U104 (that I mentioned) and U4 (INT/EXT that you mention) then the noise maybe be cut off merely when exiting the internal menus. |
That sounds the best way .
Nashou
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Well if U106 were to remain powered it has a trigger line (pin 21) which appears to be what toggles int video on/off by grounding the video to U110 by way of Q4, Q5 and Q6. Apparently this system is not functioning well and why there is noise. But if you could use that trigger line to turn off other ic's that the noise is passing through, like U104 (that I mentioned) and U4 (INT/EXT that you mention) then the noise maybe be cut off merely when exiting the internal menus. |
That circuit is on the diagram, but not present on the boards. Q4, Q5 and Q6 are not in the circuit..
so you may be onto something here....and if pin 21 will toggle off the signal going to the buffers, then it could also be used to toggle INT-EXT. Or maybe eliminate a need to worry about turning off U106.
Great find.. 
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:14 am Post subject: |
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If that mute button is tied to audio (I have no idea) then you should be able to monitor a change on pins 1 and 16 at U37 on the VIM.
I'm curious, is the audio input select automatic or is it selectable?
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | That circuit is on the diagram, but not present on the boards. Q4, Q5 and Q6 are not in the circuit.. |
Yes,
On all related parts including the three Transistors the diagram reads "DNP" which I would interpret as "Do Not Populate". I'd like to know why this is the case. Maybe some adverse effect became apparent after designing this circuit. Question still is if the programming of U106 contains anything around Pin 21. If not it might be simply dead...
Regards,
barclay66
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | If that mute button is tied to audio (I have no idea) then you should be able to monitor a change on pins 1 and 16 at U37 on the VIM. |
Obviously it isn't related to audio (see posts of Athanasios & stridvogen on the previous page) but mutes menu messages on the screen.
| macgyver655 wrote: | | I'm curious, is the audio input select automatic or is it selectable? |
It's selectable between three sources. Unfortunately this selection is tied to the selection of a video source. So it would be necessary to switch between video sources in order to use some of its control signals. Not good...
Regards,
barclay66
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | If that mute button is tied to audio (I have no idea) then you should be able to monitor a change on pins 1 and 16 at U37 on the VIM.
I'm curious, is the audio input select automatic or is it selectable? |
The "MUTE" key was originally designed for AUDIO MUTE, but on later firmware versions, it also controlled OSD in some of the internals patterns.
also, the "STBY" (Standby) key was designed to Mute video and Audio output.
Now where they are doing this is what I've been trying to figure out. I'm still thinking pin 10 on U36, but it could be done only on the Decoder Board and not in the VIM.
The Input selection is: Audio follows Video (automatic).
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Mike, if i want to turn off U106, and just use the manual way.. is there somewhere else to do it than lifting the pins on U106.
Now im thinking i could always just put a small relay, and wire it down to a hidden switch close to where i sit. Or maybe buy a small remote controlled relay box.
The important thing to me is getting that line and the noise killed, a little jumping up and down just helps me not getting to lazy.. 
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: |
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With my current settings, my gamma is 2,25 very nice indeed.
And with that gamma i can really see what happens in the black. And what i am seeing now is the vertical line in the right side not being alone, it have friends. there is 2 in the middle of the screen not as bright, and one right next to it to.
It looks like some ringing rolling in over the black, elevating my black level differently. exept from the right side of the right side line, there it looks absolutely black, like all the noise don't enter that area.
Just looking some dark scenes of WALL E and there its clear how much that elevated area is destroying compared to the right side of the line.. its like seeing a split screen with right and wrong.
Putting the gamma up will cover this elevated black. But i don't think thats the right way of doing it.
Last edited by stridsvognen on Wed May 09, 2012 10:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Now where they are doing this is what I've been trying to figure out. I'm still thinking pin 10 on U36, but it could be done only on the Decoder Board and not in the VIM. |
Hi,
Pins 9 & 10 on U36 can only control the input selection. The 74CH4052 contains two switchers which are able to connect between four inputs and one output each. Pins 9 & 10 work as binary input. Each combination of logic values (0V/5V) will control the switches (see http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74HC_HCT4052.pdf). On the Marquee only three inputs are being used. Therefore the second and fourth input are tied together. As U36 is always active (enable Pin 6 tied to ground) there's always one of the input signals present on its outputs. No muting here.
I don't believe that muting and/or volume has anything to do with the Decoder Board as this would imply that Marquees without this board would be left with crippled audio functionality. Anything which has to do with volume levels is done after input selection and the only signal available is "VOLUME" tied to R256.
This is the reason why I still believe that the "OLD" mute functionality doesn't trigger a separate control line but is simply bringing down the volume level to zero...
Regards,
barclay66
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a picture of the noise with black test screen. From the blue tube.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Kurt, what is causing that?
Never seen that before ! Wait, What year is your again? if you have a 2002 and newer build date it might be the CMM board. pul it out and see if its there.
Nashou |
Thats how the faint line look like.. When the mod is not instaled. And the gamma is set around 2.25
Its a 1997 model standard trim.
you can just see the image on the right side of the line, its almost completely black.
Try make a picture of your tube with 0% IRE test image, and see how bright the tube is.
Would be interesting to see if its all black and noise free.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Here is a picture of the noise with black test screen. From the blue tube. |
That image shows two problems, but first look at my shot (below) and tell me if that 100ohm resistor shown soldered to the first stage OP-Amp is on your board.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yes those resistors are factory installed on my VIM
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, then you have a defective VIM. That shot is showing a bunch of noise problems. Have you replaced the tants (caps) on the VIM and CLM yet?
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