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diezzler
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Potomac, MD
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: Nec XG 1351lc |
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I know this maybe a few simple questions with simple answers, but I thought I'd ask on the forum. I recently picked up a Nec Xg 1351lc and am in the process of replacing my Seleco SVD800 that is ceiling mounted (I also have a ampro 3300 and a Sony 1272 and both have spares with mint tubes, guess it's now an addiction).
1) I for the life of me can't figure out how to get a blank space when naming an input bank label. For instance 1080i (space/blank) 5. Which would show as 1080i 5. I just can't figure out how to delete a letter or blank a space when it's already there.
2) Do you recommend resetting all the settings and starting from scratch, or just modifying the settings on there as of now to do the converengence and setup. Is there a way to do a master reset of the settings?
3) Is there anyway of getting 1080p into the projector without the wrapping, or is the only option require the use of a scaler?
4) I don't have a mount, but lots of unistrut. Should I connect the unistrut to the "holes" where the floor mounts are on it, or to the "centerish" area where the stock mount would attach?
5) I noticed that when I input an image into the pj, the image isn't fully what's being output on the raster. There is a lot of blank light area on the sides of the image, which limits the amount of actually used side raster area on the horizontal image. Is this normal, or is there a way to maximize the image showing.
6) The projector is 1351 with no lc at the end, does this mean the owner did an lc conversion?
Thanks a lot in advance!
-cliff
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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1) Id like to know that myself...
If the settings arent exact for what youre using, delete them.
4) Definately where the stock mounts would attach. That is what they are designed for, the others are designed to hold the projector up the other way, not to be hung from. They will likely hold it, but this is NOT their job. There are holes drilled and tapped for this job, use them.
5) I assume the porches are what youre refering to.
6) As far as i know, 1351 is the LC version of the 1350.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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1.) You can delete a character with pressing the "NORMAL" button, CTL+NORMAL deletes the whole name.
2.)Yes, reset all settings before seting up. I don't know if there is a way for master reset, I made a preset for the nulled settings, so I could set it as default preset for example.
3.)Scaler or HTPC the two way.
4.)-5.) As Case said
6.) As I know 1351 means it is a later edition of the XG series, probably it was converted to LC, if it matters at all...
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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AFAIK, the XG1351 and XG1352 were LC versions, any XG that has a 1 or a 2 at the end ex: XG751, XG752, XG851, XG852, XG1101, XG1351, XG1352,
The XG projectors were aimed toward LC more than AC, from what I have seen
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When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it 
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have much to add other than mine will be on the ceiling 10 years next spring. IMO a scaler or HTPC is almost a must to get the most out of it.
The advantage of an HTPC is you can still use RGBHV and do not need any type of digital to analog converter.
A few screen shots from my 1351 I took a few years ago.
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Mike, your XG looks amazing, the last pic is what I like the most because it shows the edge detail on the right, very sharp focus, I haven't yet gotten my XG to that level (although I just put new tubes in this summer and have not yet setup the projector)
Anyway, amazing! Just goes to show how good an XG can display, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between that and some 9" machines!
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When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy112 wrote: | Mike, your XG looks amazing, the last pic is what I like the most because it shows the edge detail on the right, very sharp focus, I haven't yet gotten my XG to that level (although I just put new tubes in this summer and have not yet setup the projector)
Anyway, amazing! Just goes to show how good an XG can display, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between that and some 9" machines! |
Thanks...That's 1080p/72Hz too....The lower right is my biggest problem area and you can kind of see it in that last image.. I've never gotten it super good... I've done a lot tweaking the magnetics to get the dot size down. It was very time consuming. And you can make things worse if you don't take your time. Did it all on the ceiling which isn't the easiest thing reaching your hand into a running projector in the dark.
It's really hard to see the dots when projecting on the full screen so I rigged up a moveable screen on a tripod then moved it as close to projector as I could and still still maintain optical focus. Then adjusted the magnetics. I think it took me 4 hours just to get the green as good possible.
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Its good to know I'm not the only one who has suffered with the focus on a particular area of the screen. I honestly spend a good day per tube with the astig magnetics on my XG, the real bitch of it too is I had the projector almost perfect (for how worn the tubes were), and I had finally gotten it to the point where I was happy with it, and then the green tube said F*@K YOU, and cracked, luckily the way it cracked, all the glycol went into the tube and not into the electronics of the projector, saved me a lot of headaches and work!
Thanks to Greg here on the forums though, I was able to get some very very nice tubes to replace them all. I still have the old tubes, and a green that Jerry (Jarseneau) gave me, so I'm ready for the next big failure, which hopefully never comes.
Thats a good idea on the separate mini screen to adjust the astig, I may try that when I get the XG on the ceiling (hopefully soon because its sitting on my couch in the basement) 
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When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
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diezzler
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Potomac, MD
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Wow, thanks for all the feedback. I do already have an htpc in place but it is connected to a matrix by hdmi and goes all over my house to feed xbmc to the tvs and is controlled via control4. I guess I will try and connect it directly to the projector via vga to rgbhv to see what I can get displayed out of it.
As far as scaling, I bought a dvdo vp50 that was at a price I couldn't turn down, and hopefully that will allow me to send those custom video settings that I have read about on numerous forums. Hopefully this will allow me to get my hd sat tv signals at a good place.
I was really excited to pick this projector up for $150 and drove 4 hours to pick it up. The outside tubes were at 9 maybe 9.5 and the green was at a solid 8. I didn't know that 1351 and 2 were lc, and was excited when I took the lenses off to find that it was. Based on all my reading, it was suggested that the models that were lc had it in on their model sticker. Finding out i was wrong was an added bonus.
The menus in the nec are setup really well, and the convergence settings are out of this world. There is almost too much control of the picture, and I'm sure with a few red bulls and a few days, I'll dial it in great. All the versions of crts I have had, have not had as many options in the menus, so I may have to learn from trial and error on a few of them.
The rgb gain, the ones with balance at the end, and the difference between the settings under convergence vs alignment have me a little puzzled. Any advice?
Right now I have a hole cut in my ceiling with numerous pipes and wires hanging out, and I'm just trying to get this thing mounted correctly. I'm using unistrut and have most of it setup. I'm trying my best to get it as flush to the ceiling as possible. Wish me luck. I'll update in a few days with some pictures if anyone is interested.
I'll also have to get the unit working correctly with my home automation, but I'm sure it'll work out great.
Mike, you pictures as amazing, I really to do like the detail on that last picture. Did you do any mods, or is this just a really well setup stock projector?
I was following the MP nec mod forum, and hopefully things work out where I'll be able to mod mine a little.
Thanks everyone
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diezzler
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Potomac, MD
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Also, I remember reading on a forum a way to reset all the conference settings all at once, but I didn't bookmark nor remember what the procedure was. Anyone with the nec remember what it was?
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| diezzler wrote: | Mike, you pictures as amazing, I really to do like the detail on that last picture. Did you do any mods, or is this just a really well setup stock projector?
I was following the MP nec mod forum, and hopefully things work out where I'll be able to mod mine a little.
Thanks everyone |
Nope...Total stock...Just stay away from adjusting ANY pot...The only thing I've ever did was magnetic focus, gray scale, geometry and convergence. All fans are standard too, personally the only way I would quiet the beast is with a ventilated hush box if you want long life.
It was a B-stock projector with 20 hour on it when I bought it in 2002. I think I'm up to about 3000 hours and the green tube is showing some wear. 
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Hold CTRL and press NORMAL and it should ask you to cancel all data under the menu youre at.
| diezzler wrote: | The menus in the nec are setup really well, and the convergence settings are out of this world. There is almost too much control of the picture, and I'm sure with a few red bulls and a few days, I'll dial it in great. All the versions of crts I have had, have not had as many options in the menus, so I may have to learn from trial and error on a few of them.
The rgb gain, the ones with balance at the end, and the difference between the settings under convergence vs alignment have me a little puzzled. Any advice?
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Yes indeed, the menus and adjustments in the NEC are exceptional.. No excuse for anything less than perfect convergence
What exact menu options to do you want to know?
Ill run through a few here for ya, but you can see for yourself as you set it up what they do....
Key-Balance is the like tilt and skew, but for the edges and corners, leaves the center alone. So if you adjust the vertical bars with Key-Balance, both the left and right of the screen will move the same way, where as normal keystone will make the left and right sides do the opposite.
Normal: when the top left moves outwards, so does the top right, and the bottom sides will both move inwards.
Key-Balance: when the top left moves outwards, the top right moves inwards, at the same time the bottom left moves in, the bottom right moves out. Much like side tilt.
Pin-Balance is like pin cusion, but again, the OUTER lines bend the same dirrection on both sides of the screen. Pin-balance does the same to the outer lines as bow does to the middle line.
Pincusion: All 4 corners move the same way.
Pin-Balance: left moving inwards means right moving outwards, and vise versa.
Now onto the difference between Alingment and CONVERGENCE.
Alignment controls ALL 3 COLOURS.
Convergence does red and blue independently, and ALSO has control of fine adjusments for the GREEN in the POINT CONVERGENCE menu.
Pressing CTRL and one of the 3 colour buttons will swap between which colour youre adjusting.
If there is any other settings you dont understand, post up and someone will help you out, im going to have a look through my previous posts from a few months ago, i did a whole write up for a guy on the order i do things on an NEC, which ill find and post up here for ya.
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diezzler
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Potomac, MD
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot for the clarity of the things. I look forward to your write up. I'll also look around to see if I find it on the forum, and if so, post a link on here for anyone else that may like it.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Ok, here it is, i found it, taken from this thread here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=309135&highlight=#309135
Read it all cause it ended up abit out of logical order in places i think...
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Looking at that, i cant see an issue. It just needs abit of work.
Ok, you need to move the image to the center of the red tube face, then angle the red tube so it aligns in the center of the screen, when it seems to do, so that is ok. It needs to come down though, so with the cross hair, it lines up in the middle. The rest isnt important yet.
You need to center all the controls for the red before you do the above step
You need to reset all the "POINT" data, go to the "CONVERGENCE" menu and press CTRL and NORMAL at the same time, and it should ask if you wish to delete all POINT data. This is only if you have a point board.
Next, youll use the LINEARITY control, press CTRL and R and get to the red tube adjustment, and move the red linearity to the right. If it goes the wrong way when you press the right arrow, youve got the convergence plugs around the wrong way somewhere.
When the red boxes on the left and right line up with the same amount of gap, use the AMPLITUDE to make them line up perfectly.
Now, at the right edge, i see a slight downkick bend, correct the CENTER LINE with the BOW control, get it as straight as you can, THEN you use the PIN CUSHION and PIN BALANCE to correct the other lines. ONLY use BOW to do the center line of the cross hair.
The red grid is fatter on the left, so you need to adjust the KEYSTONE to get that to line up with the other grids, and go back to AMPLITUDE to get the size correct again.
Using KEY-BALANCE will help to level the image horizontally, and get the lines perpendicular across the whole screen.
By this point, you should have the red in alignment with the rest. It should all be pretty much perfectly lined up in the center of the screen before you move any electronic settings, so that means aim the red and blue, set focus, re-aim, move images of red and blue up or down to line up with green, aiming for all pictures in the middle of the screen.
Now when you get the red and blue images lined up for amplitude and linearity, you will have to re-check the centering of those 2 images on the tube faces, then re-aim angles of the blue and red, because when you move the linearity, the image center wont really move on the tube face, BUT THE EDGES WILL, and the edges will have moved in on one side, and out on the other, meaning the image will now be slightly off to one side of the red and blue tube faces. That will cause the image to loose focus where it gets closer to the tube face edges.
Once youve got it pretty spot on, use the POINT to get it perfect, and if youve got it all set up right, and it is square to the screen, it shouldnt need any POINT in the center area, and shouldnt need any along the cross hair either, around the corners shouldnt need more than 5 or so taps. If youve got POINT installed, you shouldve used that when you had the green set as perfect as you could get it, and use the point on green to get it perfect BEFORE you line up the other 2 colours.
It takes a fair while, but you want it done right, or the picture will look shithouse, and the projector will end up rooted. |
There are some parts that wont be relevent to you, but then there are some that i consider quite critical, like the part about the aiming of the red and blue, this will need to be done twice the first time cause when you adjust the linearity, the SIDES of the picture will move, and although the center of the image is still center of the tube face, the total image will be off to one side ( and youll see what i mean when you do it )
The way i centered the images is i put the cross up, center that, aim it to the green, then adjust the linearity and amplitude, THEN when you look at where the patern sits on the face, it will be off abit to one side, so you then center that using the cross hatch, then reaim the tube, then re-check.
This way takes abit of time, but you will get it perfectly centered in the middle of the red and blue then, cause the center of the red and blue images WILL NOT be the center of their respective tube faces. Im not really sure if there is a better way to get this perfect.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
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No worries, ill check back later on and see how you find it all, if youve got any questions ill have a look when i can get back on, HUGE storm here at the moment and ive just gone onto UPS... Probably wont get far with a full tower and a CRT monitor
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diezzler
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Potomac, MD
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I've developed a problem that I can't seem to solve. I looked everywhere online, but can't seem to find anyone with the same problem. While programming the remote into my home automation, I noticed that the remotes no longer work correctly. I can point the "master" xg remote at the projector and get it to turn off and on and do picture mute toggle, but that's it. I can't get into the menus, change inputs, or do any adjustments. The projector just won't respond. The remotes are still spitting out ir, as I confirmed on my ir reader, but it won't do much on the projector. Any ideas?
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diezzler
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Potomac, MD
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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After looking at a few post on the scrambled mess topics, I've come to believe that this is NOT my problem. The projector locks on fine to any image input to it. The projector turns on and off normally. The remote works to toggle the r/g/b tubes on and off. The picture muting works fine. And the point button on the remote brings up the point convergence screen, in which I can adjust the crosshair for each tube. Nothing else on the remote works. I was just in the middle of getting ready to ceiling mount the projector, when this happened. I don't have anyway to adjust convergence, or anything important on the projector. Thanks for all the help and input.
Also, I did notice that the last time I pulled up the test images (when it was working before) that the image had a very faint/small wiggle to it.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Press 'control', then 'display' while holding down the control button. That command locks out the remote on most functions.
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diezzler
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Potomac, MD
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. That was simple
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I bet youre glad thats all it was
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