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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Not sure why you're re-posting comments from drop. The second one was something he said *AFTER* we said primaries can't be adjusted to which we corrected him to let him know that there are no settings to adjust primaries.
I posted my original comments *BEFORE* he posted either of those 2 posts so again, I wasn't making any assumptions. Both Ben and my comments about non-adjustable incorrect primaries were made right after Drop said "how natural looking the colors are".
Context and order matters.
Kal |
But he was never talking about primary's in these posts but things he saw in his projector.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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So there were two sets of conversations going on here. That makes sense.
The problem was how they were done was really confusing, you were quoting my responses but actually replying to something drop had written 3-4 posts earlier.
For example this post here:
| macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
Normally when you quote someone and writes a response, it's because you're commenting on what was quoted.
Kal
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Last edited by kal on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | So there were two sets of conversations going on here. That makes sense.
The problem was how they were done was really confusing, you were quoting my responses but actually replying to something drop had written 3-4 posts earlier.
For example this post here:
| macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
Normally when you quote someone and writes a response, it's because you're commenting on what was quoted.
Kal |
Your absolutely right. It never fails when I make 1 line posts and dont quote specifically. I was also thinking my subsequent posts were clarifying that but it did end up being a big mess.
Anyways.....all is well. 
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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good thing you're in this thread...now it's 14 pages, and 3 pages of you backing up your incorrect arguement to the death.
You were wrong...we all know it. Stop talking about it....please!
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | good thing you're in this thread...now it's 14 pages, and 3 pages of you backing up your incorrect arguement to the death.
You were wrong...we all know it. Stop talking about it....please! |
And your still an ******* but I think you like that standing........
So feel free to bust my balls anytime and I will gladly reciprocate.....
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong...it just means that I've learned something.
You will go to the ends of the earth and alter your story to appear right... seems like a lot of work.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong...it just means that I've learned something.
You will go to the ends of the earth and alter your story to appear right... seems like a lot of work. |
I'll tell you what Ben. Here's the problem. For what I was trying to say and the subject I was talking about I dont feel I was wrong. Because I was never talking about calibration or external processing.
But if you tell me what you think I was specifically wrong about in my post then I will gladly say I was wrong. How's that?
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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You were clearly implying that the green primary could be adjusted...as when Kal mentioned it can't be, you quickly replied that there are adjustments in the service menu. You were...and are WRONG!!!!! totally f'ing wrong. And you have pushed this thread to 14 pages of which you contributed absolutely nothing but misinformation.
But..I do not doubt for 1 second that in your mind, you are right...or at least, nothing you said can be interpreted as wrong in a court of law with your lawyers present.
Maybe you were right and you just have a terrible time communicating your thoughts accurately or you are not high in reading comprehension...although, I doubt this theory very much.
You touch that green slider, it may effect the green...but your greyscale will be completely f'd up. You CANNOT tweak an overdone green primary by moving that slider in the service menu and then not ruin your greyscale...you CANNOT!!!!! Do you hear this?? Can you comprehend this? You may be able to change the green point on the chromaticity diagram by a tiny margin, but in doing so, you would ruin your greyscale. Again...any arugments here?? Do you want to reply and tell us "there are adjustments in the service menu" like an all knowing ******* that you are? Even though you were clearly off the mark...even Kal argued with you...that should be all you need to know. Google JVC RS-1 primary colors...you will see, it's a very known quantity. It is a problem...it cannot be fixed without a cms - to which you reply again - there are adjustments in the service menu. Again...you are wrong.
I do not want to hear any further explanation of your ridiculous posts...if your posts require pages of explanation, then they're not very good and you should just resist the urge to add in your wisdom...especially when you clearly do not know the subject.
You setup the best greyscale you can get, then you measure the primaries...if you go back and just adjust green out of a scene, it may reduce it's intensity, but now you've totally hosed the greyscale that you previously calibrated. These are relatively simple concepts known to anyone who has calibrated a projector...but not to you. At least, not without dozens of replies where you spin your previously erroneous posts.
Now, when I go into a thread and argue about capacitors, resistors and mosfet's...feel free to let me have it. It's not my area of expertise and I would likely deserve it. As you deserve what you have got here...
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well Ben, clearly you either misinterpreted what I was trying to say or I was not saying what I was trying to say correctly. Because I agree with what you just said.
So, if what I posted appeared to say as you suggested then I was wrong. Hows that?
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
ok...so, in your reply above...what you wanted to say was that you agree with Kal...but your fingers got way ahead of you and you typed "It has individual color adjustment in the service menu"
and this was the second time you responded with this....
Look, we all know you were wrong...and you likely learned something along the way. but your feverish need to appear that you were right all along is just very annoying to tolerate. And it sure wastes a lot of time and energy in these threads.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
ok...so, in your reply above...what you wanted to say was that you agree with Kal...but your fingers got way ahead of you and you typed "It has individual color adjustment in the service menu"
and this was the second time you responded with this....
Look, we all know you were wrong...and you likely learned something along the way. but your feverish need to appear that you were right all along is just very annoying to tolerate. And it sure wastes a lot of time and energy in these threads. |
So why are you still responding. This issue would of ended many many post ago if you would keep your mouth shut. It was done after Kal and I had our conversation earlier but you had to chime in, as usual. You want it to stop.....THEN SHUT UP!
You want to have a technical discussion as to the function of displays then open another thread and we can have at it.
Other wise I have all the time in the world to have some conversation with you. Your comprehension levels keep dropping....
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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I keep responding because you keep trying to somehow make it appear that you were right all along...quite simply, you weren't.
And if you weren't so intent on seeming to have been right, this thread would be fine.
You obviously were wrong...no more excuses or who misinterpreted whom...you were wrong, and that's why this thread has grown so large...you simply can't admit it. And even after you did admit it...Gary opened the door for you a crack and you used it to try and redeem yourself. Just stop...you were wrong...
If I was the one who was wrong, I wouldn't spend weeks trying to prove how I was misinterpreted...I would know it and move on.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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I did move on after my conversation with Kal. Your the one with a comprehension problem....
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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yah...so, when you quote someone in a response and tell them something about the service menu...what you were really referring to was something drop had said earlier...yah, right. Get real...
Kal is a far better man than me and likely knows it's just not worth pursuing with you so he gave you an out...I'm not giving you an out. You clearly meant the primaries are adjustable, which is totally wrong. But, by all means...this is just a miscommunication...I mean, otherwise...you would be wrong, and we just can't have that.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | You clearly meant the primaries are adjustable. |
Did not....and I clearly stated so in later posts. Go back and reread... What you think I meant and what I was saying are apparently 2 different things.
http://curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=325402#325402
Wavelength is the devices primary.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
I owned 2 RS1's and this was extensively discussed as a weak point of the projector - it had very rudimentary greyscale adjustment (essentially a set of RGB sliders that didn't work that well) and no gamut adjustment. Unless the service menu adjustments came out in a later firmware revision, the RS1 had essentially no way of calibrating greyscale, gamut, or gamma without an external box like the Radiance. |
See, your acknowledging there are internal individual color controls. With this type of technology along with most digital projectors you can only change the intensity of a color. The sliders change the intensity of the individual colors.
An external processor can still only change the intensity of the light. Maybe the external processor will have a finer adjustment control to be more precise but you can't change the devices inherent technology.
Even a gamma adjustment would only increase a specific intensity to bring up lower levels or LSB's of a particular color.
Think about the technology for a minute, white light.... prisms......reflective panels........ there is only certain things that are possible to be adjusted. And only the panels can be adjusted.
So if you want to say an external processor will give you a little more intensity control then the internal adjustment of the RS then I would agree. Or the gamma control could bring up lower light(by manipulating specific light intensity). But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment..
New firmware or not.... the adjustments are there..... |
Ok...look at what you wrote here...where it's blatantly obvious that you are still on the green slider in the service menu will desaturate the green primary kick...the exact opposite statement you just made in your last reply to me.
quote "But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment.."
and quote "New firmware or not.... the adjustments are there"
now quote me "you're wrong...you thought they could be adjusted, you argued it...you realized you were wrong, and you'll do anything to avoid being wrong, so now it's all about misunderstandings...yes...YOUR misunderstanding of how color works with a projector.
Also, a cms can completely change the primary color point of a projector....and you make a further wrong statement above where you say, and I quote "An external processor can still only change the intensity of the light" - this is of course, wrong!
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yeap, and I chose the word intensity very carefully because it has nothing to do with adjusting primaries. Increasing lets say green intensity would increase green in the overall image giving everything in it more green, not just green itself. But being it's a bias control it would become more washout then color vibrant.
Ben, did you know what wavelenght meant before just now? You skipped that comment and went to this.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and I didn't comment on CMS because it can change the "appeared primary". You can't change the basic primary that the display produces but you can mix in other color(like hog stated ) to bring it closer to standard. But like I already said, I dont want to get into these discussions.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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quote "But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment.."
need I really say anything else here? You are wrong...stop trying to bring in new arguements or backtrack. Just read the above quote and accept that you are wrong.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | quote "But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment.."
need I really say anything else here? You are wrong...stop trying to bring in new arguements or backtrack. Just read the above quote and accept that you are wrong. |
My terminology of "over saturated" is the same as intensity. Too much of a color in the over all image. If this is a word that is giving you trouble then I will change it to intensity if you like.
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