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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:35 am Post subject: Marquee castings severe reaction to glycerin coolant |
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Fellas,
Some months ago I changed the bellows on my MP9, but for various reasons, such as my interest in getting G90 focus yokes in it, it has sat disassembled. Today I was in the process of building harnesses to install the G90 yokes and discovered serious debris in the green tube and the start of what looks like the the same problem in the blue and red.
When I did the bellows change, I thoroughly removed with razor scraper and 3M pad and steel brush (and boy, was it tedious) all remnants of the RTV that was on the inner casting courtesy of the previous bellows. Maybe I did too good a job, because I must have gotten the anodization super thin. I installed clean new Athanasios' bellows and charged with the glycerin based coolant Dragan has been using lately (no ethylene glycol). And then they sat for many months.
At first I thought it was fungus, but after a quick strip down, it's clearly material being created by a chemical reaction between the coolant and the aluminum casting. The debris is like salt. No, I didn't try tasting it.  Severe pitting can be seen on the casting.
I suppose the solution will be to either a put a thick, baked enamel coat on these inner castings or anodize the crap out of them. In any event, it means separating them from the tube and the rear most casting. I have done this already with in the interest of using the piece as a template for new design machining brand new ones for a future ultimate Marquee build. Yeah, like I got time for that.
So, damn. Now what? Mask off tube and spray paint flat black, as I think I've read others have done?
Steve
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DB Cooper
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Ambler, Lancaster PA
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Well, it's not working so great for me and I'd like to know why. The results speak for themselves. The chamber was completely clean before I put this stuff it. And the beginnings of what looks like the same problem seem to be taking shape in the other tubes, including one assembled by Dragan.
Thanks,
Steve
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zGman
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 599
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Me Too Z... 
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javers
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Just out of interest was this the orison coolant with or without the corrosion inhibitor package?
Jon
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DB Cooper
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Ambler, Lancaster PA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know what to tell you! I have had the stuff in for over 6 months with no problems and MP is pushing close to 2 years now with no problem.
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Correct. I bought and used undiluted:
Orison Marketing
Item: ICAF-1c
Description: 1 Gallon IceClear Anti-Freeze - Commercial Purchase
The brand new bellows were very clean, I'm sure of it, as were all other internal surfaces (casting, c-element). In one of the photos you can clearly see the formation of the material right at the sites of pitting.
The company responded saying the stuff it totally safe on aluminum and that there had to have been remnants of ethylene glycol or something else present to make it do that. I do remember that there was already a trace of pitting from before, and maybe the inhibitors were going after that corrosion. I had worked over the casting with a razor scraper, 3m pad and a steel wire brush. Maybe there was some steel that got imparted to the aluminum and the inhibitors were interacting with that?
Assuming this stuff is safe on aluminum or anodized aluminum, it must be some variable I introduced. 
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| javers wrote: | Just out of interest was this the orison coolant with or without the corrosion inhibitor package?
Jon |
Didn't know you could get it without inhibitors. I bought their ICAF-1c (I think the little c just refers to a commercial purchase) and used it undiluted.
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| DB Cooper wrote: | | Don't know what to tell you! I have had the stuff in for over 6 months with no problems and MP is pushing close to 2 years now with no problem. |
Very good - just gather data, much appreciated. It must be some other variable involved in my situation.
Thanks,
Steve
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Mine is also good. Crystal clear just at it was the first day I put it in the tube assembly.
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I would agree with the manufacturers assessment it looks like glycol contamination- did you check the PH of the contaminated fluid?
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Mine is also good. Crystal clear just at it was the first day I put it in the tube assembly. |
Was the plate/casting in good shape? I.e., no pitting?
Thanks,
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: | | I would agree with the manufacturers assessment it looks like glycol contamination- did you check the PH of the contaminated fluid? |
I didn't. I should have kept a sample, but I was just interested in cleaning everything up.
Steve
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Had a nice chat with the manufacturer. There must have been some kind of reaction with the new fluid's inhibitors (OAT types) and the existing trace corrosion that remained in the original pitting. He is going to let me try their fluid that has no inhibitor. So, still not sure what's going on yet.
Steve
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mr_ro_co wrote: | Well, it's not working so great for me and I'd like to know why. The results speak for themselves. The chamber was completely clean before I put this stuff it. And the beginnings of what looks like the same problem seem to be taking shape in the other tubes, including one assembled by Dragan.
Thanks,
Steve |
I'll stand behind the one I did, if you send it to me I'll redo the chamber without disturbing the bellows. What I have done to the last few I did was paint all the metal surfaces with 2-part automotive Epoxy. I think at this point it's just something you have to do to any old marquee housing. I started doing this after a set I did for myself started clouding up and corroding after sitting for just a few months.
I can also send you some of the Epoxy if you want to do it yourself. I just paint it on with a small brush and with the tube sitting up vertically like in your pic. If some gets on the inside of the bellows it's not a problem. Let cure for at least 24 hours or longer.
bottom line= MArquee LC housings are crap 
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mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | mr_ro_co wrote: | Well, it's not working so great for me and I'd like to know why. The results speak for themselves. The chamber was completely clean before I put this stuff it. And the beginnings of what looks like the same problem seem to be taking shape in the other tubes, including one assembled by Dragan.
Thanks,
Steve |
I'll stand behind the one I did, if you send it to me I'll redo the chamber without disturbing the bellows. What I have done to the last few I did was paint all the metal surfaces with 2-part automotive Epoxy. I think at this point it's just something you have to do to any old marquee housing. I started doing this after a set I did for myself started clouding up and corroding after sitting for just a few months.
I can also send you some of the Epoxy if you want to do it yourself. I just paint it on with a small brush and with the tube sitting up vertically like in your pic. If some gets on the inside of the bellows it's not a problem. Let cure for at least 24 hours or longer.
bottom line= MArquee LC housings are crap |
I think that's a good approach to epoxy the housing that's exposed to the coolant. Right now I'm really concerned about the using this product due to its incompatibility with acrylic.
Steve
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karmat63
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 157
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone knows if IceClear AF is actually sold inside UE? Or, is there any way to keep it delivered from US to UE?
Thanks.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| karmat63 wrote: | Anyone knows if IceClear AF is actually sold inside UE? Or, is there any way to keep it delivered from US to UE?
Thanks. |
I don't know about ice clear but I tried shipping normal CRT coolant through the US post office and they refused it even after giving them the MSDS showing is not hazardous for shipping. Turned into a huge hassle and eventually what the lady told me was this. Even if the US post accepted it and shipped it all the way to Japan it might be refused by Japanese customs at which point I would be out the $65. for shipping and my buyer would naturally expect all of his money back.
It's not worth the risk for the average person. Have you checked with ice clear and see if they will ship to europe?
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karmat63
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 157
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: |
It's not worth the risk for the average person. Have you checked with ice clear and see if they will ship to europe? |
I checked Horizon web site, but it looks like they only ship to North America. I will try to contact them by mail.
ThanKs Draganm.
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