CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

zogomusic · Joined: 09 Feb 2009 Posts: 67 Location: Boxborough, MA

Hi all,

At home, I have a Barco 808g and while it is having it's own issues (flashing and scan lines) I know it is a far superior machine to the LCD projector we have at the youth center I run. When I look at that 5 year old Panasonic, screen door deosn't even begin to describe it... more like chicken fencing image.

A CRT would not be practical for our center, and I have narrowed it down to a dlp projector. I would love a 3 chip one, but I suspect they are out of our affordability, which is in the $1500 range.

I believe the lumens are about 3000 on our current one and that works well. We can darken the room quite a bit, but there are lights in the cafe and there are often video games and other stuff going on, all with their residual light effect.

The projector is 17 feet from the screen and seems to be mounted at about the same height as the top of the screen. We have a vaulted, cement ceiling that goes from 14 feet to 26 feet high (that might not be so obvious in a two dimensional photo), so moving the mount would be cost prohibitive. So, there's the throw distance.

I have done enough research to be a bit overwhelmed ny it all, so am seeking out opinions. I left our current pj's manual at home, so may have to update later, but as this one doesn't even have HDMI in (only video or 15 pin), it's time to move on anyway (we're looking at going wireless).

Uses for our projector include - Youth films (that they've created), photos, ps3 and xbox games (nothing like a COD tourny on 120 inches), and sometimes, computer stuff... I suppose I should toss Youtube in there as well... sigh...

I have included two pics of our location. Thanks for any help/suggestions Smile

After seeing one of the other threads, maybe DLP isn't the best idea?... I don't want to give a bunch of 6th graders any headaches. Anyone know of a really low "screen door effect" LCD pj?

-Jon Kerr
Danny's Place Youth Center
a 501 C 3 non-profit organization

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2649 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Well, Since no one wants to post Ill be the one to do it! Smile

$1500 you say? You could buy a Sony VPL-BW7 brand new from sony for $800 its a 1280x768 projector so its 720p, and it has HDMI VGA Composite and S-Video connections.

Its a VERY bright projector, for a 120" screen it will easily light that up and its well within your price range.

I owned one a short while ago but sold it to upgrade to a VPL-VW50 (Sony Pearl) for full 1080p and so on...

I will note that the BW7 only has a 1000:1 contrast ratio, so the blacks are more like a dark gray.

IF you are willing to go on eBay you can save yourself even more money on a brand new BW7 (About $500 for one new in sealed box).

Just one projector that may be worth looking at. For a youth center, it should be plenty bright, and its 720p native HD so it has the modernesque technology too.

Happy Hunting Smile

**kal**

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

What Kal said. I had a friend that had a cheap 800x600 LCD pj. He used it as a TV and loved it. A lot of other people who saw it really liked it as well. To me it looked like crap, but most people don't care that much about video quality.

**kal** · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject:

Exactly.

Whenever someone 'normal' sees a big screen all they think is "wow - that's a big screen!".

Kal

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject:

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2649 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

ecrabb · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject:

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:16 am Post subject:

zogomusic · Joined: 09 Feb 2009 Posts: 67 Location: Boxborough, MA

I've had some, but not much, feedback in regards to watching youtube or movies on it. However, there is definitely commentary about it when running Call of Duty or Halo on it... messes them up somehow. We have a couple of kids who are way too good at those games and scan issues or, especially lag (but that's a server issue) sends them in to a tizzy. Is the rainbow effect on DLPs generally from moving while looking at it, or looking at it from the sides, etc.? I'm a little confused by that, but reviews seem to indicate that if you're looking at it head on, it's not an issue. That said... the kids that sit close enough to be bothered by the scan lines probably deserve it. lol. But i'll also say that when I'm about 20 feet back, I definitely notice them. Some of the kids have also been spoiled by the CRT at my house (volunteer movie nights, superbowl). Of course, I notice the scan lines on the crt at home and my wife can't figure ut what I'm talking about... but they're there... I swear. Although, they weren't noticeable when I was watching a DVD the other night. I see them on blu-ray though and "hd" tv. But I digress...

I did find a used sony vpl-vw50 for under budget. But it's at 1000 ANSI. Is that bright enough? Is that different from "lumens" or is that the technical luminoscity measure?

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

You might be able to find a used 720p pj in that range. I doubt 3 chip dlps at 720p would have much more value than that.
http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?projdlpa&1306343832&&&/Infocus-SP777

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2649 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Having owned the VPL-VW50 for a few weeks, I can say it is indeed much brighter than my 3 CRT projectors, however, I don't know if it would be bright enough for your usage... If your current projector at the center is several years old, it is most likely that the VPL-VW50 is at least as bright if not brighter.

Also, make sure it comes with a bulb made for that projector specifically. My VPL-VW50 had a mod done to it to fit another sony bulb/housing that was similar into it. Because of this, the previous owner thought that faces of people looked darker than he remembered with the original bulb. However I did manage to find a large piece of plastic from the mod sitting directly in front of the bulb, right in the light path, once I removed it I noticed brightness increase. So it was likely his sloppy mod that caused the issue. I have not had an issue with dark faces. Only needing major color calibration which I spent several hours on for a few nights in a row

the VPL-VW50 will give you a few things that you and your kids MAY notice:

Literally no screen door effect of any kind (unless your glueing yourself 3 feet or less to the screen)
Almost no lag, SXRD/LCoS has a very fast response time
1080p Native resolution with 2 HDMI inputs!

I like the projector, but I am sure if I had it on a screen that was bigger than 82" (say your 120") It would probably be noticably bit more dim since it would be further back and on a larger screen...

Also keep in mind 1000 ANSI Lumens in digital is not the same as CRT Lumens

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject:

Any reason why you want DLP over LCD? I just bought an NEC 3000 lumen from projectorpeople.com, it arrives tomorrow, and I'll set it up in my HT before I deliver it to the customer. It was $750 incl shipping.

The rainbows of DLP drive me nuts and give me a headache. I'd go LCD.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject:

Any reason why you want DLP over LCD? I just bought an NEC 3000 lumen from projectorpeople.com, it arrives tomorrow, and I'll set it up in my HT before I deliver it to the customer. It was $750 incl shipping.

The rainbows of DLP drive me nuts and give me a headache. I'd go LCD.

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

That is why I linked to the INfocus. It is 3 chip and bright.

zogomusic · Joined: 09 Feb 2009 Posts: 67 Location: Boxborough, MA

The lumens bit is interesting. Makes it kind of a pain to compare? How does that VW-50 compare to a canon realis sx6 or sx800... both of which i have found pretty decent deals on?

Curt - I had investigated the DLP because of the "screen door effect" and because that's what I notice on the one I we have at the center now. That said, I expect the technology has improved in the past 5 years and the difference may be moot? I'm trying to minimize the SDE for kids lying on the bean bags 6 feet away from it. Right now, we are running 1080i on the panasonic we have. I also feel we need some HDMI inputs as the only option we have right now is running rgb or vga to 15pin d-sub in... or standard def. "video" coax. blech... that one's really obvious... the one time I tried it.

We also have a Peerless AV wireless that we set up. But needs the HDMI out to in as it doesn't convert analog to digital and vice versa and I don't really want to spend more money on that stuff given the costs of dvdio's and HDFury's, which are great, but as everything we generally have has HDMI outs, that seems to be the direction. That said, I am shocked at the qulaity that Peerless wireless is giving us at 70 feet and for only $300.

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

What is the native resolution of your current projector?

When it comes to digital projectors you have to leave out what resolutions it is capable of, or what your running to it, you need to look at the native for comparison.

Its not the same as CRT.

zogomusic · Joined: 09 Feb 2009 Posts: 67 Location: Boxborough, MA

Hi. Back after some research... and finding the manual. The native on our current panasonic pt-lb30u is 1024x768. contrast is only 400:1 and it's 3000 ANSI.

I've narrowed things down (to some extent) to the vpl-vw50, canon realis xs800 and realis sx6. both of those later two have higher ANSI. I can find all of them (used or not) within our budget.

Curt - any thoughts on that NEC 3000 you mentioned above?

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

You are aware that the canon ones are 4:3 aspect and the Sony is 16:9. Or this doesn't matter?

nuttall_chris · Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject:

The vpl-vw50 with only 1000 lumens will look dim compared to the 3000 lumens your current projector is able to produce. Also make sure there is enough lens shift and zoom range to work with your application.

Chris.