CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[JustGreg]

Some of you may recall the ongoing tougue in cheek relationship I have with a Sony VPL HS-10 digital pj that developed color shifting in the upper left quad. Not a bad machine other than that and the inherent crappy CR.

Well, after having had service refused by Sony Service in TX because they "detected" smoke, I decided for giggles to take it back to the furniture/electronics box store I purchased it from and have them take a look at it under the 5 year extended warranty plan I purchased with it.

NOTE:I had the original packaging with me but they didn't want the nice padded box. They didn't even bubble wrap it in front of me. That would have made much too much sense to protect it from bangs and scratches.

For giggles I'm polling you all on how you think the process will terminate this time; my final option with the thing.
BTW, it's supposed to be ready for pickup Nov. 11th.

Like the song says, "I Can't Get No.....Sa-tis-fac-tion!!"
But I tried!!!

--Greg--

[JustGreg]

I had a message on my home answering maching yesterday from Sam, the "technician" who works in the svc dept of the box store, and who was assigned to look at the pj. He says he found a loose ribbon cable "which can cause allllll manner of problems" and "thinks" he has it fixed.

*buzzer sound* Wrong skippy! I was inside the thing before bringing it in and there are only 4 ribbon cables leading from a multiple boards to the LCD block which sits like a nucleus in the middle of the pj guts. I personally cleaned the contact areas of these cable ends with a Gold Guard Pen and reseated/secured them in the swing pinch latch fixture. Seating them correctly is a no brainer. I tried the pj after cleaning and it still displayed incorrect tint in the upper left quad of the displayed image. (fleshtones are greenish in that area)

I called Sam the Man an hour ago and asked him how he came to his conclusion that it "appeared to be OK". He connected it to a CyberHome DVD player (MSRP of $29.99 at Rat Shack) via S-Video. I don't think it makes much difference if it's S vid or component to determine how effective his "repair" was but he did say that he hadn't set it up to display in a totally light controlled environment such as found in my HT. He "shined it" (his words) at a wall in his fluorescent lit service area.

I asked him to take it to the HT theater room and dim the lights and connect it via component DVD and find a DVD with full screen shots of people and freeze it when an actor (white or black..they were all greenish)was in the upper left quad just to make sure it's truly fixed before I drive all the way there to get it.

He reiterated that it looked fine in his service center and that I shouldn't be watching an LCD projector in a blacked out room anyway as I would be "driving it too hard", which leads to "early failure". BAWUH HA HA HA!!
Gahd that killed me. Almost pi$$ed my pants laughing.

I don't know much about bulb technology but...HUH? How the hell do you drive an always on bulb (lamp for the purists) too hard????

Anywho...it looks right now as if the voters in this poll who chose the option for it not being fixed but them saying it was, and returned unrepaired are currently correct.

Film at 11.

--Greg--

[Rdean]

I'd push back on that diagnosis, I'm curious to see if you can prevail. I've allways struggled with whether those warranties from the box stores are worth it. If the decision of whether the unit is fixed is determined by someone with his level of expertise then that's a strong vote against these warranties. Not every product failure is objective after all.

Randy

[Z-Photo]

I voted for repair to factory specs -

Do we really know that it is broken??????

[Person99]

[kal]

Me too! Woohoo!

Kal

[kal]

Me too! Woohoo!

Kal

[nettwerkjohn]

take a hand-cannon with you when you go to collect it...

if my experience with my philips astaire is anything to go by, the greenish tint is a failure of the lcd block, and it sure is "economically unviable" to repair it.

at least, eventually, i managed to get my money back. i did have to call the store manager a ****, and have to be forcibly removed from the offending store first, but eventually, i received a nice, fat, cheque.

fancy philips having a 2 year warranty. and it failing with 3 weeks to go!

gotta have a win sometimes, huh?

i hope you have some luck. and failing that, sue their ring out...

[JustGreg]

[nettwerkjohn]

does it look worse during dark scenes? mine certainly did. looked like i was watching thru a green fog.

did you send the sony repair center back their box of cockroaches? freight forward?

[JustGreg]

[mp20748]

Why is the word repair even associated with a digital projector?

Changing a lamp or cord is not considered a REPAIR. And if you think something beyond that will happen if you sent one in, you're fooling your self.

Once they leave the factory, that's it - period, there's nothing you can do to them... there's nothing to solder... nothing to replace. There's not even replacement parts available for them. And don't include the marketing parts. they're only used for sales purposes (they can't be purchased or used by anyone).

They'll either give you a replacement unit, or they're simply say:

"No Problem found"

And don't forget, two pixels off is normal or acceptable..

For me, when they come with "zone convergence" in the menu - then I'll start paying attention to the hype..

[Cozza]

I found this in a Barco white paper about LCD versus DLP

"LCD devices exist in many different sizes. The sizes range from 0.5” over 0.7”and 1.0” to 1.4” and 1.65” for the diagonal of the LCD. Some components inthe LCD are sensitive to degradation over lifetime caused by light intensity on the display. The smaller the LCD area, the bigger the light intensity, so0.5” and 0.7” LCDs are very sensitive to degradation which can occuralready after 1000-1500 hrs depending upon the brightness of the projector.Depending upon the brightness of the projection system, a 1.0” will showdegradation after 2000 to 3000 hrs. 1.4”, 1.65” and 1.8” LCDs are lesssensitive to degradation and degradation here will start occurring between5000 to 12000 hrs operation depending upon the brightness of the projectiondevice. (Polarisers and Analyzers that are used together with the LCDs showsimilar degradation effect, but may degrade slower of faster depending uponthe content of the projected image.)"

Taken from the source www.barco.com/projection_systems/downloads/White_paper_1-gle_chip_DLP_versus_3_chip_LCD4.pdf

So this suggests compact LCD projectors of the type sold for home theatre will have image quality problems before the first lamp replacement and definitely during the life of the second lamp, given that typical lamp life of new models is supposed to be 3000 hours or more.

Is this really such a surprise? Not to me it ain't. Is it mentioned by the projector manufacturers in their marketing - hell no!

[JustGreg]

[Maurizio Prandi]

Greg,

It looks like you have enough material to escalate the problem to higher management.

I suggest you the following:

1. Put everything in writing. Take pictures of the problem and document the story so far.

2. Send the document to Sony explaining that you didn't get the right answer from them and that, eventually, they "let" the warranty expire. Ask Sony to reply in writing and explain them that you need it in order to pass it on to your legal advisor.

3. Send the document to the store asking them to reply in writing so that you can pass their answer on to your legal advisor.

I am sure you will hear from them both.

Good luck!

[JustGreg]

[Maurizio Prandi]

[nettwerkjohn]

greg
take a camera and get screen shots as well

[Curt Palme]

LEGAL guerilla warfare usually works if you have the time. Stand outside of the place where you bought it and tell people your story.

Same with standing outside of the repair facility. As long as you're on public property, they can't chase you away.

I was really tempted to paint a yellow lemon on my Rav 4 when I first got it and park it outside the dealership, but I got too busy... It eventually got repaired though..

[Curt Palme]

LEGAL guerilla warfare usually works if you have the time. Stand outside of the place where you bought it and tell people your story.

Same with standing outside of the repair facility. As long as you're on public property, they can't chase you away.

I was really tempted to paint a yellow lemon on my Rav 4 when I first got it and park it outside the dealership, but I got too busy... It eventually got repaired though..

[JustGreg]

Well, the 52% who chose Returned with the same problem but they'll say they fixed it got it right.

I just got back from picking it up...one hr round trip...$15 in gas....every ******* with a drivers license on the roads...3 minutes to set it up and... NOW it not only has a green tint on an all white image on the entire left side of the screen (the beginning of Ice Age where Scrat is trying to jam the nut into the ice) but NOW the entire upper right has a purdy magenta tint. <sigh>

Perfect colors for using it as part of my outdoor Christmas display rear projected on a sheet in the garage door opening I suppose. Sam the Man in their svc dept is gonna get an earfull tomorrow.

I guess the next poll should be "How many times will they bone Greg before he just gives up trying to get the extended warranty honored".


-Greg--

[AnalogRocks]

What happened to setting it up before you bring it home?

I had a similar argument with SONY about 10 years ago on the geometry on a 27" tv. Took three trips to three different facilities the last one finaly got it right.

[AnalogRocks]

What happened to setting it up before you bring it home?

I had a similar argument with SONY about 10 years ago on the geometry on a 27" tv. Took three trips to three different facilities the last one finaly got it right.