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DGP
Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Barcelona
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: My Install |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Ohmess wrote: | Hi Gang – I pulled the focus coils out of the Sony 1292Q I purchased last week, wired them up and got them into the Marquee. I’m still working on setup, but so far it is looking very nice.
Anyway, I thought I would toss in a couple of things I did just in case others may find it helpful. First off, buying an entire Sony 1292Q was cheaper than buying just the focus yokes. Luckily I found one local, and for the price of a couple of hamburgers got some muscle to help me get it home.
The yokes were Sony # 1-452-811-11, but the other numbers did not correspond to anything in this thread. I’m not sure the other numbers (K22-22) are helpful to those looking for the proper focus yokes.
I drilled out the rivets holding the housing of the Sony focus yoke together, and spun the magnets 180 degrees in the shell. I then used the brass hardware from the Thompson yokes to put them back together. I had some difficulty replacing the wiring board, and decided to remove and resolder each of the wires to the opposite side of the board. This allowed me to put the board in using the original orientation.
In wiring them up, I decided to retain the Sony wiring harness, and to splice this wiring into the convergence and astig wiring from the Thompson yokes I removed from my projector. The coloring from the Sony harness did not correspond to the picture earlier in this thread. Attached is a chart showing my harness wiring.
Raster centering was not a problem; I did not have to rotate the focus yokes at all to get a level raster.
Cheers |
Good job, i did notice also the wiring diagram earlier was not right either. I used my schematics to get the wire harness correct for flow and return of the focus signals, for static it doesnt matter if they are flipped as it just changes which side of 50 it affects, the dynamic is more important to get right. the purple wire should go to where the orange marquee wire.
One thing i think would help though would be to keep the magnet as is in the housing and rotate the deflection coil on the bell housing to correct the horizon, this keeps the static coil winding as the first coil the electron beam flows through on its way to the dynamic coil and its last focus correction. It makes sense as this is also how the Marquee stock coil is designed .
Athanasios |
I installed the Sony Yokes as they are in the Marquee all three at once. My surprise was that the raster was almost perfect ( perfect focus at 22). I needed to rotate the deflection yoke just a little. I also rotated the Sony yokes until ramping up/down the focus the crosshatch does not move at all. The under focus range is extremely reduced, so I increased the red a blue drives in order to see the blobs with the dots inside (just for CPC adjustment). Everything looks good, until I tried to adjust the C and S linearity. The crosshatch became really distorted.
I was not able to rotate the convergence yokes because is glued to the deflection yoke in a way I can’t remove it. My 9500 is from VDC and it look like they glued it with Loctite or something similar.
So I decided to rotate the Sony yoke 180º inside the housing and try again ( perfect focus at 28). I get exactly the same results, but this time the C and S linearity adjustment work as expected. I didn't see a big improvement in the corner focus, but it is easier to get same level.
Now I’m able to increase the contrast up to 76 with no blooming and very little blooming at 100. Anyway I’m using the contrast at 50 (120” diagonal screen with High Power surface), but I noticed that at high IRE video frames from Blu Ray movies the picture looks sharper than before and also brighter.
Diego
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Nice wright up Diego, I will have to try it with all three, so far only have been testing with one for rewinds and comparison reasons. So it looks like the position of the static to the dynamic winding isn't as important as I thought. However a full test will still be done to compare, i have gotten very good at removing the guts of the magnets and flipping things around inside. Also i wonder if the electrical direction was right in your dynamic winding causing the linearity issues.
I have not seen my original grid sizes change with either of the coils i installed and even when milling out the core of the new yokes to fit over the convergence
coils clamp flange bring it closer to where it can affect that even more.
I like the idea of spinning the coils on the neck while testing focus, this will help with CPC magnet set up i bet.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
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DGP
Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 57
Location: Barcelona
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | “So it looks like the position of the static to the dynamic winding isn't as important as I thought.”
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Yes, it looks like it doesn’t matter.
| Nashou66 wrote: | “Also I wonder if the electrical direction was right in your dynamic winding causing the linearity issues.”
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I doubt that the electrical direction (coil polarity) is the reason, I believe is the magnetic field. In fact I’m pretty sure that if you connect the focus coil reversed when you increase the focus with the remote control it will go to under focus and so on.
| Nashou66 wrote: | “I have not seen my original grid sizes change with either of the coils i installed and even when milling out the core of the new yokes to fit over the convergence”
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Did you tried also with the magnets in both directions?
| Nashou66 wrote: | I like the idea of spinning the coils on the neck while testing focus, this will help with CPC magnet set up i bet.
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This really helps to minimize the CPC adjustment. On my green tube I almost didn’t change the CPC from null position. I have 6 pole CPC magnets installed and I didn’t need to adjust the triangularity at all.
Diego
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Ohmess
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: |
I have not seen my original grid sizes change with either of the coils i installed and even when milling out the core of the new yokes to fit over the convergence coils clamp flange bring it closer to where it can affect that even more.
I like the idea of spinning the coils on the neck while testing focus, this will help with CPC magnet set up i bet.
Athanasios |
Hey Athanasios - With respect to milling out the core, did you do this with Sony focus coils, and if so, how much improvement did you get? I moved my coil backwards and forwards as far as I could, and found farther forward was best, but have not looking into how I might install them even further forward.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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No I have not yet But Galen who has done lots of testing with the focus coils has gotten slightly better results that way. this is why I did it with the Barkenstiens.
I was working on them some more today testing different wiring schemes with the static (flipping then wires). DGP s right I'm pretty sure for the static at least.one thing i noticed if you have one of the coil wirings flipped you will get to a point where it will focus but then either way up or down it will alter the vertical and horizontal in different directions,that is up it will defocus say the V line but focus the H line, this confirms DGP's assumption i think. so both coils need to have the direction of the electrical current the same way i believe, have to test some more, I did it with the marquee coil too but i think i have a fault on the red channel i tested with, it stops defocusing at 23 from 23-0 it does nothing (I think CLM issue).
I really need to test this on tubes i know are not re builds and a more consistent machine. This Green tube just doesn't seem to be right.
Athanasios
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: My Install |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Ohmess wrote: | Hi Gang – I pulled the focus coils out of the Sony 1292Q I purchased last week, wired them up and got them into the Marquee. I’m still working on setup, but so far it is looking very nice.
Anyway, I thought I would toss in a couple of things I did just in case others may find it helpful. First off, buying an entire Sony 1292Q was cheaper than buying just the focus yokes. Luckily I found one local, and for the price of a couple of hamburgers got some muscle to help me get it home.
The yokes were Sony # 1-452-811-11, but the other numbers did not correspond to anything in this thread. I’m not sure the other numbers (K22-22) are helpful to those looking for the proper focus yokes.
I drilled out the rivets holding the housing of the Sony focus yoke together, and spun the magnets 180 degrees in the shell. I then used the brass hardware from the Thompson yokes to put them back together. I had some difficulty replacing the wiring board, and decided to remove and resolder each of the wires to the opposite side of the board. This allowed me to put the board in using the original orientation.
In wiring them up, I decided to retain the Sony wiring harness, and to splice this wiring into the convergence and astig wiring from the Thompson yokes I removed from my projector. The coloring from the Sony harness did not correspond to the picture earlier in this thread. Attached is a chart showing my harness wiring.
Raster centering was not a problem; I did not have to rotate the focus yokes at all to get a level raster.
Cheers |
Good job, i did notice also the wiring diagram earlier was not right either. I used my schematics to get the wire harness correct for flow and return of the focus signals, for static it doesnt matter if they are flipped as it just changes which side of 50 it affects, the dynamic is more important to get right. the purple wire should go to where the orange marquee wire.
One thing i think would help though would be to keep the magnet as is in the housing and rotate the deflection coil on the bell housing to correct the horizon, this keeps the static coil winding as the first coil the electron beam flows through on its way to the dynamic coil and its last focus correction. It makes sense as this is also how the Marquee stock coil is designed .
Athanasios |
Thanks Ohmess, that cleared up everything until I read what Athanasios said "the purple wire should go to where the orange marquee wire."  Looking at your wiring chart it doesn't look like you did that.
As I have no schematics, I don't know who is correct or if it matters.
If your setup is working well I will wire up as per yours.
OHHH.... and Happy New Year!!!
Jim
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Pin 9 on the Sony coil connector(on the focus coil) goes to pin 1 on the FCM, pin 7 on the Sony coil goes to pin 2 on FCM, pin 5 of the Sony goest to pin 3 FCM,pin 3 of Sony goest to pin 4 of FCM. I did this from the top of my head, i'll check when I get home.
Athanasios |
From memory, very impressive!! 
This is what I have:
Sony to Marquee focus
----3-----4
----5-----3
----7-----2
----9-----1
Sony to Marquee stig
----1-----Grd
----2-----4
----4-----3
----6-----2
----8-----1
If this is correct than Ohmess has his connectors mixed up, as the pins would match #s if they were reversed.
This also means if you disregard colors, the original table (earlier in the thread) is right if you match pin #s.
ARE THE ABOVE PIN #s CORRECT?
Jim
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:19 am Post subject: |
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After winding and rewinding and analyzing the schematics and the service manual , i have it tattooed to my brain, the only ones i have not wired up were the astig since the PJ i was testing in did not have the SWA board.
Yes you have them right.
If you look at the schematics the signal it sends to the FC are listed at the pins as Stat-H and Stat-L and DYN-H and DYN-L, on the PCB the corresponding wires on the sony are D + or - and S + or -. I assume the H means High and L is Low which correspond to the + and - on the FC's PCB. These then correspond to either the high side or low side of no current to the winding, so as long as you have Both windings corresponding to the complimentary + or - of the coils you can have them swapped around as long as both coils are swapped, if not you will move the focus of either the Horizontal or vertical in the opposite direction, so the vertical will be over focusing while the horizontal will be under focusing, if you notice that behavior then just swap one set of coil connectors and they will both then focus in the same direction above or below no current.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Athanasios
When I install these and check to confirm they are right I will post a new chart with the correct pin and color code. I will not do so until having checked all associated adjustments, as I do not want to cloud the issue more than it is already. (could be a few months as I am still working on getting tubes bellows and c-elements).
Jim
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Ohmess
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| J Kildare wrote: | Thanks Athanasios
When I install these and check to confirm they are right I will post a new chart with the correct pin and color code. I will not do so until having checked all associated adjustments, as I do not want to cloud the issue more than it is already. (could be a few months as I am still working on getting tubes bellows and c-elements).
Jim |
Jim - sorry for the confusion. I checked my wiring and its fine. My original attachment was, however, incorrect. I have posted an updated version with the correct wiring.
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ohmess wrote: | | J Kildare wrote: | Thanks Athanasios
When I install these and check to confirm they are right I will post a new chart with the correct pin and color code. I will not do so until having checked all associated adjustments, as I do not want to cloud the issue more than it is already. (could be a few months as I am still working on getting tubes bellows and c-elements).
Jim |
Jim - sorry for the confusion. I checked my wiring and its fine. My original attachment was, however, incorrect. I have posted an updated version with the correct wiring. |
Thanks Ohmess
That looks perfect 
Jim
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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If the static winding is backwards the top and bottom focus will de-focus the top and bottom when adjusting up from zero, assuming the center is in focus.
Likewise, the left and right focus adjustments will de-focus the edges if the dynamic winding is backwards.
If the vertical and horizontal lines behave differently when adjusting focus that is usually an indication that the stig adjustments are wrong.
Scott
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Thomas Jefferson
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | If the static winding is backwards the top and bottom focus will de-focus the top and bottom when adjusting up from zero, assuming the center is in focus.
Likewise, the left and right focus adjustments will de-focus the edges if the dynamic winding is backwards.
If the vertical and horizontal lines behave differently when adjusting focus that is usually an indication that the stig adjustments are wrong.
Scott |
Okeed okee!! Got ya, now i know what was causing that on only one PJ, back to those CPC magnets !!
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, it's been a long time since I visited my own thread here.
I'm very pleased to see that my little experiment is alive and well and has no doubt been refined.  I can't think of a better compliment.
Now, I'm here to ask YOU something: Who here is set up to EASILY rewind the coils to the correct specs for use in a Marquee? Please send me a PM or something because I've got a few coils that I'd like to get rewound, as I simply don't have the extra time to mess with it on my own these days. I've been very busy and that's likely to continue. Let me pay YOU to rewind my coils.
Heck, as long as you're at it, I'll pay you to just do the whole mod and make them ready for installation.
CJ
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Look back through the thread and you'll see a pic of my ancient looking coil winder. I have been truing the barco coils from a 1208 and they actually have a better magnet strength that the two sets of frankenyokes I have. I call the barco coils i rewind Barkenstiens  I still need to do more testing and refine everything, but its getting closer with each test.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
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Ohmess
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Great. Now I'm going to have to buy a used Barco 1208 and have yet another projector in the house!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ohmess wrote: | | Great. Now I'm going to have to buy a used Barco 1208 and have yet another projector in the house! |
Unless you can wind 700-800 winds of coil somewhat evenly distributed on the bobin its not feasable. But you could remove the guts from the frankenyoke and put them in the magnets of the barco coil. But i think that is Overkill, the rewind of the barco coil is just an alternative for those who cant find Sony coils and have the ability to rewind them.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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Robert A. Hill
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 182
Location: Simpsonville, SC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Would this type of winder work? Seems that these can be had fairly cheap:
New!Computer Programming/Controlling winding Machine 10Group Storable,Auto Counting,Speed adjustable
Ebay Winder link
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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you could use it but its not traversing, meaning it doesnt move the wire back
and forth across the bobin. You'd have to do it by hand and shipping is expensive as
is the winder. Not worth it for the cost unless you plan to wind for others and make money.
it be easier to wait for a set of frankenyokes and not wind anything as they are proven to
work as is. a set of barco coils are less expensive but add the cost of the winder and wire and the
work, better to wait for a 1292 coil. or i can wind them for a fee.
Athanasios
PS can you make that a smaller link by using the advanced post settings for adding links.
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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