CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[skypuppy]

Can someone give an unbiased comparison between the two projectors? Namely the Marquee 9500LC and the new Epson 8350 digital projector. Now that they're both under $1500, I'd surely like to hear some good, meaty comparisons between the two. Picture quality is #1 priority, of course, #2 is routine calibrations required. Digital is supposed to be set it and forget it. I've used several 4100 ECP's over the years and they are a constant tweak machine. I didn't mind back then but rather bored with doing that weekly at this point. Plus, of course, 1080p like out of a PS3 blu-ray is an absolute must now.
I want it all but not all the routine headaches .
I don't mind the initial setup at all and even look forward to that. But seriously, the Epson 8350 is only 16 pounds and does 1080p with wide variation in pj placement and ambient light allowance. Bulb is 4000 hours claims Epson. I don't want to deal with bulbs either but every couple years isn't so bad at around $300 currently.

My main theater room has been really idle since I got sick but I went through a couple ECP 4100's, a couple Barco 800 graphics (still have them plus 4 more that are untested.)
And to top if off, wife says she doesn't want to put any more money into pj's but it hasn't sunk in yet that the 10 foot image is now as cheap and cheaper than the 60 inch or so flat screen.

That's where we are these days. Thanks for any help!
David

[Curt Palme]

You're probably better off posting over at avs, as there really aren't a lot of digital users/viewers here.

One thing's for sure: The CRT will have better blacks and will last longer.

[Curt Palme]

You're probably better off posting over at avs, as there really aren't a lot of digital users/viewers here.

One thing's for sure: The CRT will have better blacks and will last longer.

[Spanky Ham]

Speak for yourself, Curtie!

To add to what Curt said and I have mentioned it numerous times, CRT wins in on/off cr and motion resolution. If those don't matter to you then go digital. The Epson is LCD and I would spend teh extra money to get the LCOS pjs.

One thing that doesn't get enough exposure is motion resolution. I don't understand why this doesn't bother people. I was watching my dlp tonight and kept thinking - Wow, how do people not see the lack of motion resolution?.

[AnalogRocks]

With DLP I see trails

[AnalogRocks]

With DLP I see trails

[skypuppy]

see trails? That was too much 60's 'entertainment.'

[AnalogRocks]

[AnalogRocks]

[km987654]

[benareeno]

the crt is huge...heavy, loud...and has to be tinkered with. The lcd is small, quiet, easy to install.

Lcd would have better color accuracy, grey scale and better bright and midbright scene contrast.

crt would have better absolute black, but would then require some gamma adjustment via htpc or processor. If not adjusted, the blacks and or shadow detail may be similar to the lcd.

The crt will require new bellows if they haven't already been replaced...along with other repairs, tweaks, etc.etc.

It's likely that the crt pic is better...but is it enough better to warrant the downside? That's your call...

[AnalogRocks]

CRT. BIG HEAVY GOOD!

[AnalogRocks]

CRT. BIG HEAVY GOOD!

[cmjohnson]

Whether it's DLP or LCD, it will have a limited lifespan due to bleaching of the dichroic filter elements in the optical core.
Blue is first to go. The cause is heat and UV radiation.

The heat and UV levels in the core will also cause the adhesives used to bond the optical elements together to weaken, and in some
cases, start to yellow. Eventually they will start to delaminate in many cases, making for large bubbles that are visible in the picture
and have no practical repair method short of having the optical core rebuilt at the factory that made it, which is impractical.

Digitals have a short lifespan. That's all there is to it. A 5 year old digital projector belongs in a recycling bin because it's been
degraded to a piece of crap.

Meanwhile, CRT projectors made 15 years ago are still going strong. Sure, CRTs do wear out, but a 5 year old CRT projector
is going to put out a better picture than a 5 year old digital.

The usable lifespan of a CRT (quality images) is apparently greater than the quality lifespan of any digital projector.



Until such time as cool LED illumination becomes standard in digital projectors, I don't see this changing. Even then, there will still
be some filter bleaching issues.


If you had ECPs, you weren't experiencing the best that CRT has to offer. Get a retubed Marquee with MP mods and a Moome HDMI
input card and you'll have a projector that you can just watch movies on, with few if any tweaks required once it's properly set up.


My 9500 is extremely stable. It doesn't drift. I don't have to touch up the convergence. I simply have to allow it about half an hour
to warm up before watching a movie. In the first half hour there is a LITTLE bit of drift but it always settles down to a consistently
well converged image. I turn it on, let it play the previews, and come back to watch a movie half an hour later.


CJ

[Jeremy112]

Ok, I am a fence sitter on this one,

I do side with CRT for the fact the image is more realistic with motion, colors (IMO) are WAY better than LCD, I dont know where ben got that LCD has a better color accuracy.... From my own experience of owning 5 LCD projectors and 2 of them being brand new, I have to say LCD is far from better color accuracy.

In regards to the lifespan, I have 3 13 year old LCD Projectors that you can tell have had multiple bulbs put through them (When looking in the lamp compartment that is). As far as the optical core goes on all my LCD projectors, both new and old, None of them have yellowing, or any other panel defects.

The ONLY LCD projector I have come across that had any light engine problems would be the Epson ELP-7500C I have, which was a 1st gen version of the model that used foam tape to hold the dichroic mirros in place. I bought a 2nd one to repair the first one and the 2nd one was a later revised model that had metal clips in place of the foam for the dichroics, so no parts internally could move anymore from rotting foam...

As for the dichroics themselves, they have no bleaching whatsoever, the color coming out of the ELP-7500C (a 12 year old projector) with a bulb that has 1650 hours of 2000, looks fine, infact it looks better than newer low end digital projectors.

Now if you choose DLP, there are different issues with it alltogether, DLP has the potential "Rainbow" effect, which honestly I didnt know what it was until I got my most recent DLP projector - A proxima Ultralight DX1.

the DX1 is a very early version of DLP and uses the original colorwheel designs when DLP first came out, as a result you can see red green blue when moving your eyes around the screenwhile the movie is playing. I didn't realize it could be as noticable as some had said until I saw it myself.

Since your choosing a newer projector, I would tend to beleive that the DLP rainbow issue has been addressed and is either not present or hard to notice in newer DLP machines. Ive had DLP machines that were newer than the DX1 that I have and couldn't notice the rainbow effect at all.


So honestly, Digitals have a longer life than 5 years, Like said, I am using 3 13 year old digitals (2 DLP's 1 LCD) and a 12 year old LCD, all of them work fine and have excellent color for their age and how "old and worthless" they are.

Also one more note about LCD vs DLP, if its single chip DLP you will see a nice and super sharp image which can make some of the not so positives of DLP unimportant. If you go with an LCD, there is probably a good 70-80% chance you will get a projector that doesnt have the 3 LCD panels aligned, which is VERY noticable if its more than one pixel in any given direction. Same goes for 3 Chip DLP, although DLP has an overall better image than LCD so it isn't as noticable.

CRT is the best for the overall image if your a huge movie buff or even a gamer since gaming on CRT has NO lag at all from a millisecond response time, like LCD has. CRT uses the full 32-bit color pallet vs LCD only using 24-bit, CRT has better blacks, NO screen door effect at all, LCD has a horrible Screen door effect, and piss poor blacks (IMO).

LCD and DLP are easy to setup, CRT is not. If you cant picture yourself sitting on your chair for at least 100 hours just to setup the image on your CRT, the CRT is probably not for you, unless you pay one of the pros to set it up for you.

My 2 cents, as with everyones 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt and use whats said here to help make your decision. Good luck!

P.S. Id take the 9500LC over ANY LCD anyday...

[Jeremy112]

Also I'd like to note that the digitals I own are NOT for my main screen, they are used for LAN parties and gaming nights. My main screen has an NEC XG-1100 Air coupled Lens CRT Projector, and I wouldnt take it away from the screen unless I got a G90 or Barco Cine 9

[secstate]

I think most folks have summed up the pros and cons pretty well for both technologies. Personally I'd probably pay more and go for LCOS as suggested above since you are used to the the CRT type image. Of all the digital techs I like LCOS best. If you want easy go digital if you don't mind the initial setup and tweaking of CRT go CRT. Personally I haven't done any tweeking to my Barco 1209s/Runco 1100 since it was mounted more than a year ago. However to get my surplus special CRT projector in good running condition took some time. As others have pointed out this projectors are 10-15 years old now so some work upfront if not getting from the likes of Curt is to be expected. If you don't want that go digital.

[skypuppy]

The work upfront doesn't bother me but I don't want either the work or costs to get out of control -- for either technology.

Thanks, all, for the advice!

David

[TheVerge]

IMO an 8350 isn't in the same league as a nice crt set. It's definitely on the lower end of the 1080p digital spectrum... at least get an 8700.


Not to mention, if it's anything like the 8100, the bulb will blow up in 300 hours... search around...

[dturco]

More simply put under $3500 the CRT will always win. Period. Over $3500 at current technology it's a hard call and ease of use goes to the Digitals. If I wasn't so involved with CRT and did not already have one, [which at current my total cost of purchase and upgrades of new tubes is just over $3500, that was done over 2 years] A one time $3500 and LCOS digital or a DLP would be my choice.

But with that said I like the CRT for tweak factor Some of the guys will find that hilarious

I am currently thinking about blending for the ultimate picture, because 1] the prices of the 9" inch machines are now really coming down, 2] I already have one 9' machine and it would be a shame to stop using it. So for the cost of a second 9' Marquee and a P/C I'll have a set-up that will last 5-10 years with very little additional cost in that time. I hope.

[skypuppy]

Are you talking about blending for a larger picture or a second picture on top of the first for a brighter pic?

[dvh99]

problem with blending is that its best that the 2 pjs are identical.
where are you gonna get another set of pt22 tubes or 2 sets of lcps (that would be my choice) and lets not forget the blending hardware and of course the upgraded vim and neckboards for the 2nd pj which makes the blending not so attractive costwise.

[dturco]

[dturco]