CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[betel]

"Maybe I am missing something since it has been a long time since I have seen one, but I believe the screen is supposed to be an opaque layer over aluminized mylar."

The analyzer I used has an electron microscope to view the sample. No evidence of another layer of anything. I also looked at it under an optical microscope and the sample look like a solid piece of metal to me. I was surprised it was just aluminum. The reflectance of the patch behaves just like the rest of the screen. It is a tad bit brighter; probably because it hasn't had time to oxidize. It's a good enough fix that I feel I can take my time to figure how best to fix it.

[betel]

I think applying an aluminum paint will behave slightly different than foil. Foil is a continuous flat film. Where as aluminum paint contains aluminum flakes. A light ray bouncing off the surface of a flat surface will reflect at the angle of incidence. If the surface is made up of randomly oriented flakes, it will tend to scatter. It's probably why the manufacture went to the trouble of laminating a film instead of painting the surface. Painting is my only option and I suspect some gain will be lost but it will still be way above a flat screen. To reduce the scatter effect, I plan on buffing the surface to get it as flat as possible.

[dturco]

Man that is dedication..... And bragging rights.

"When setting up my theater I used an electron microscope to determine the angle of incidence for the optimal image"

I'm jealous. I wish I had access to such great toys.

Sorry you had any troubles with the screen.

[betel]

"Maybe I am missing something since it has been a long time since I have seen one, but I believe the screen is supposed to be an opaque layer over aluminized mylar."

Spanky,
You were right, there is a clear coat over the aluminum. The tape removed the clear coat and the aluminum layer. When I went to get a sample, I scraped the aluminum from the tape. The clearcoat remained stuck to the tape. As for as the subtrate, looks like paper to me (the subtrate didn't come off with the tape).

Changed my mind on painting.

I come up with hopefully a viable repair than is easier and probably have better results. I'm using silver leaf. Actually it is made of aluminum. Leaf is incredibly thin sheets of malleable metal. Much thinner than aluminum foil. To fill in the void where the surface peeled, I used JB Weld Water Weld. It's an epoxy putty that sticks to the aluminum and the substrate very well. Used a plastic putty knife to smooth it out and alcohol to clean up the excess. You don't want to leave any more filler than necessary because it is hard to remove after it dries. Sanded the filler with a sanding sponge, finishing out with 600 grit. Applied the leaf and so far it looks good. Tomorrow I intend to final sand the leaf with 1200 grit and buff until very smooth. Final step will be to over spray the repair with an acryllic clear coat. Wish me luck.

[Tom.W]

Spray it on with an airbrush if possible.

[betel]

The silver leaf is too reflective. Much more than aluminum foil. Don't get that since both are aluminum. Back to painting. Oh well, it was worth a try.

[dturco]

How about a piece of Aluminized mylar? Like balloons are made off.

[betel]

[stefuel]

Take a picture of the screen surface. If it looks anything like the one I saw about 5-6 years ago that I set up a projector on, I would just use commercial water base equipment paint. I have sprayed this type of paint before and it goes on like solvent based paint. For that fact, there is now many automotive water based paints available but they do require a solvent based clear coat.

[jcwhite57]

Repair Update: Note: betel = jcwhite57

Modern Masters water based aluminum paint:
Last winter I used an air sprayer to apply Modern Masters water based aluminum paint. I could not get a sufficently smooth finish. Although I painted it in a heated garage, I thought the extreme outside cold might be affecting the cure so I decided to hold off until the summer and try again. Second try and still can’t get a suitable smooth finish. Fine sanding creates noticable points of lower reflectivity.

Results:
Although the colors appear accurate and the image brite, the screen is very evident due to the lower points of reflectivity from sanding. The water based paint would make a good fix if I could only get a smooth enough finish. Maybe a professional painter would be able to do it. I notice the other day Home Depot is carrying a line of resonably priced water based metallic paints at about $35/gal. Modern Masters was expensive at about $30/quart. I priced Screen Goo and it is obscenely priced at $220/gal if I remember correctly. Those guys are making some serious profit I think. Overall result: Not acceptable.

Ace Harware oil based aluminum paint:
Oil based paint has its own problems. Strong chemical odor during application, messy to clean up, and as I recently discovered, a very long time to cure. However, it is relatively easy to get an accetable smooth finish. The first time I applied it I had a great finish. It looked similar to the OEM finish. Unfortunately, if the finished is touched, a permanent blimish appears. The more you try to remove it, the more obvious it appears. After letting the paint dry for several days, I applied a top coat of varnish to protect the finish against curious fingers. The top coat reacted with the based coat, producing a gray, mucky, and glossy mess. Worst screen surface possible. Researching oil paint, I found oil based paint could take up to a year to cure. The next attempt, the screen was left outside in upper 90 deg heat for a week to let the paint dry. It was still not completely dry so I did not apply a top coat and decided to use as is.

Results:
The oil based paint produced a finish very close to the original finish in appearance. . I’d say it is more reflective than the water based paint. Projecting an image onto the surface results in a sharper, brighter and much more dynamic image than the 1.0 gain white matt screen I have been using for years. Colors look saturated and accurate. Although I do detect some hot spotting during the warm up screen, it is not descernable for video. The brightness falls off slightly as the vewing angle changes from center as expected. The most off centered seating position is about 45 deg from center. The image at this location is a uniform brightness and only slightly degraded from dead center. Oil based aluminum paint is very resonably priced. I paid $26/gal. Overall result: Acceptable

Summary:
I still need to perform a color calibration and hope to post some screen shots after. I am very pleased with the final result using the oil based aluminum paint. Hopefully at some point I may be able to apply a protective top coat. If someone has a damaged torus screen, I think they should consider using aluminum paint as an inexpensive solution to reproduce the highly reflective surface.

[jbmeyer13]

I find it rather eerie that you post this update now after several months. Not more than a half hour ago I was reading your thread while doing searches on Torus screens;-)


Sure hope you can get this worked out. I'd like to build my own Torus at some point and once you find the right paint/combination I'll be sure to take note of it. Best of luck!

[betel]

After I damaged the Torus, I was unable to find where anyone had attempted repair. I even called Vutec and spoke to a tech. According to him, they never developed a repair. If the screen was damaged, you ordered another one. At $2500 a pop, no wonder they quit making them. Personally, I don't have that kind of money laying around. He did tell me the Silverstar had a very similar surface. I hear it's the next best thing to a torus. Expensive of course and high shipping charges since it is a hard screen.