CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Once again I pursued a lead that MIGHT have led to new CRTs for us at reduced cost.

Specifically, I went chasing after a deal on the new manufacture Clinton CRTs that VDC Display Systems
rejected for quality control issues, primarily phosphor defects.

Let me clarify that such rejects are a SMALL percentage of the tubes made by Clinton. VDC also rejected
a small percentage of Panasonic CRTs for the same reason. In no way, shape, or form am I even implying that
the Clinton tubes are substandard. Quite the contrary, their quality is very high according to Tse, and I believe him,
having seen those tubes first hand. They look exactly like new Pannys but with different labels, and perform the same
as equivalent types.

As some of those defects would be outside a 16x9 active picture area, and some would even be outside a 4x3 picture
area, those defects would be of no consequence to most of us.

I did get an actual price...but it represents only a small discount off the price of a perfect tube. Why would I pay 975
dollars for a slightly defective P19LCP tube when I can get a perfect one for about another 125 dollars? I doubt there
will be much interest given the small price differential. However, if this idea does appeal to you, you are free
to pursue it on your own.

In the conversation with the Clinton engineer, I learned that new glass envelopes for the kinds of CRTs that are
of interest to us are NO LONGER BEING MADE.

As a result, used CRTs that don't have glass damage are worth saving for rebuilds. The day is coming when
rebuilds will be the ONLY tubes available.

If you have any retired 8 or 9 inch CRTs with pristine glass, no scratches on the face, and no internal glass damage,
please do not throw them out or recycle them.

Instead, you can do our hobby a big favor by contacting Clinton and asking if they want to take in your duds for
rebuilding. I expect that they will at least pay shipping to get them.

When there are no new glass envelopes, and no rebuildable old ones left, then that'll be the final end of the projection
CRT market. You can help delay that day by saving your duds and being very careful not to scratch the all-important
glass face.

Oh...and please package such tubes with extreme care so there is no shipping damage. Use an oversized box, padded
with firm foam all around (not peanuts!) and the firmest foam around the CRT face. The tube does need to be able to
move around a little bit in order to absorb shocks. A very rigid way of holding the tube in the box is nearly as bad
as letting it just bounce around loose in the box.

CJ

virusc · Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 358 Location: Massachusetts

if they are duds then what are they doing with them? It would seem that they should be jumping for joy that someone was willing to buy them at any price. I think $300 is fair. Do they rebuild the duds and try again?

also, I thought VDC had the glass bellow mold or whatever it is called for MEC 9" tubes. Is this not the case?

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Those are questions I don't have the answer to.

My GUESS is that while VDC or Clinton (a VDC subsidiary) probably HAS the molds, they probably don't have
the glassmaking facilities required to utilize them or that facility is not active.

Apparently, though, if they can't get 975 dollars for a slightly imperfect new tube, it's worth it to them to tear it
down and rebuild it.

I told them that they could probably sell PD (Phosphor Defective) tubes if they got the price down to 500 dollars each.

I included specifications for acceptable limits. A grade 16x9 would be zero defects in a maximized raster, 16x9 aspect
ratio, vertically centered on the tube face. A grade 4x3, same but in 4:3 aspect ratio of course. B grade would allow
up to a 3x3 pixel flaw at full 1080P resolution (1920x1080) with maximized raster, 16:9, or equivalent in 4:3.

C grade would allow a phosphor defect of up to 5x5 pixels at the same resolutions.

Multiple defects in the active raster area would always be a D grade.

VDC's rejection criteria is any phosphor defect on the face of the CRT even if it is totally out of a maximized 4x3 raster
area. It's the tubes that were rejected by this criteria that I was after...and can get, if I want to spend too much money.

Incidentally, the 8 inch tubes provided by Clinton are bare tubes, which do not include the cooling cell on them that
are always provided on a Panasonic 180 series 8" tube. However, those cooling cells are available. VDC Display
Systems in Florida has them custom made and they do the installation in their factory. My guess is that if you needed
this done, VDC could do it for you but I would not expect them to do it very cheaply. VDC does not have a reputation
for being the cheapest solution. Quality costs and they deliver high quality.

CJ

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Thomas electronics I think still makes tube glass or will if you need them. they have a full glass house, where they can elongate your neck, make a double Neck for some apps, and even add Fiber optics into the CRT for certain appps . The also will change the pin outs. I have not spoken to then since last summer but I was planning on taking a trip there. I think they are very close to Zubb's neck of the woods.

Athanasios

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject:

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Sparky015 · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:22 am Post subject:

So if they are no longer being made, what tubes are they using for the 2010 Marquees we saw pictures of earlier in another thread? Those pics showed shelves of tubes.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

There are plenty as of NOW...but stocks will EVENTUALLY be depleted. It would be better to stop tossing out the duds or getting them
recycled NOW before that day comes.

They're MAKING new tubes right now. But their envelope inventory won't last forever.

CJ

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

I am a little confused. If new CRTs are still being sold and they are supposed to be in service for ten years, then wwhat does VDC tell a customer when there are no tubes available?

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

I'm quite sure that VDC will retain an adequate stockpile of all parts, including CRTs, to ensure that they meet their contractual support obligations. ALL smart companies do that. VDC is certainly no exception.

CJ

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Hehe

Right now, Athanasious is pricing some glass-making equipment on ebay....

.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject:

Funny, my thoughts exactly last night, I was just too tired to post.. Wink

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:12 pm Post subject:

Hehehe I could see him do that actually

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Nope, still looking for a C -element maker first, then maybe i'll...... Wink

Athanasios

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

I found a company that can make C elements. But they would be considerably more expensive than the price we used to pay for new ones from 3M. 600 bucks each is what they said to me, in small quantities.

The sad part is, the 3M/USPL C element mold machinery is sitting in a factory in China, just sitting there, unused, and probably by now
the mold surfaces are rusty. it'll probably soon be torn out and the molds sold off for scrap metal and the machinery scrapped if it's
not repurposed for making plastic parts for Happy Meal toys.

You could probably buy the whole molding line from 3M for not a lot of money, but it'd need a freight ship to transport it to the US.

CJ

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:05 am Post subject:

Nashou?

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

jkruger · Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 2435 Location: Carlsbad, CA

I looked into making c-elements but in the process of getting the profile and color data ran into a patent infringement problem and stopped.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I thought it was you!!!! Wink

Athanasios

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Since 3M has stopped making this product and has abandoned the market, actually it should not be too difficult to obtain the rights from them to produce the C elements under their patent. They might even give you enough of the data package to ensure that whomever makes them for you gets them exactly right.

It could not hurt to ask.

CJ