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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Geeze Spanky. You must be one buff dude if you not only haul those 4 909's into the house, but then you get them to jump through hoops and do stupid pet tricks. 
(BTW: YOU SUCK!)
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Wait Craig, one of those is mine !
Athanasios |
Screw you Tom I want to see a stacked blend  I would actually come to see that for sure.
craigr |
We can do that here too
Id need two more Radiance Xs's though for color calibration.
I have seen dome blends with 6 barco split packs in the Thessalinoniki Science museum where my cousin works.
Blend zone is visible if they put up bright images but when used in a planetarium there is more dark
image than bright so its easier to hide. The beginning parts of the show where they had a small over view of the museum the blend zone was visible. as soon as the night sky show came up none was seen.
He showed me the room where the packs were and they used the internal blend cards.
these also had HFQ 904 lenses i think? Were these for dome use specifically?
Athanasios
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: |
We can do that here too
Id need two more Radiance Xs's though for color calibration.
Athanasios |
I think we could get away with the two Radiance processors you have on their own, you don't need four. Each has two HDMI outputs so we could do internal color calibration on each projector first and then use the Radiance on each side for a touch-up... BAM!
craigr
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Uhhh... Am I perhaps reading the genesis of the yet-to-come Athanasios' Quad-Stack Meet?!!?!?
SC
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Uhhh... Am I perhaps reading the genesis of the yet-to-come Athanasios' Quad-Stack Meet?!!?!?
SC |
I thought he was going to have a meet this year?
To show off the blend.....
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Blend is getting closer!! it seams with every new thing i try to add to get the bled working i have an issue.  its either me or just bad luck!
Craig while your here, on the radiance do you have to adjust the White and Black levels at all?
I have that weird issue with it clipping the top end really bad . I was told by Jim that its almost exactly set to THX specs after i told him i think the top end runs hot.
I think when i first got them they worked fine right out of the box with no clipping only after using Calman interactive mode
trying to check the super white setting i got the issues.
You can post in my radiance and CalMan thread in the Lumagen forum here on curts.
Athanasios
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Blend is getting closer!! it seams with every new thing i try to add to get the bled working i have an issue. its either me or just bad luck!
Craig while your here, on the radiance do you have to adjust the White and Black levels at all?
I have that weird issue with it clipping the top end really bad . I was told by Jim that its almost exactly set to THX specs after i told him i think the top end runs hot.
I think when i first got them they worked fine right out of the box with no clipping only after using Calman interactive mode
trying to check the super white setting i got the issues.
You can post in my radiance and CalMan thread in the Lumagen forum here on curts.
Athanasios |
I never use the Calman interactive mode with the processor. I would do a factory reset on both processors and redo everything by hand. The Radiance certainly does not clip white.
craigr
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | I'm assuming the rippling is not the screen, it looks like scan line overlap? Do a 'set to midposition' and see if it goes away. I have had two here doing that identical thing (not as bad as yours are showing) and it was the system board. Not repairable, at least not by me.
Let's hope it's not that.
Anyways, super nice score, I concur with the finger pointing post above. |
I am not sure which pic you are talking about, but it is probably the sheet. I didn't see it when I looked at the menu screen pic. The sheet was moving when I got up close to take a pic.
| CIR Engineering wrote: | Dude, you could do a cube or a stacked blend... that would be something I have NEVER seen in a client's home... either one.
I would keep at least two of them if you want to run a single, or I would keep at least three if you plan to run a stack or blend. If a control board goes in one of those you are hosed. Barco wants $5000 for them and they are not repairable most of the time. It is WORSE than the G90 IC421 problem because the Barco control boards fail more often (read very often).
You could do a stacked blend and only run one for each side at a time. That way when one dies you still can keep running the stacked blend 
craigr |
Thanks for the info. I have heard of quads going out, but not control boards. Are you sure, because I thought I checked and didn't see many problems with them?
There were repair tags in two of the machines for last year, so they have been gone over. I can find out the name of the company and maybe they can give some advice on repairs.
| CIR Engineering wrote: | And BTW the G90 will focus BETTER than the Barco's will. G90 and Barco are similar in performance, but the G90 has more bandwidth and better flapping capability... but they are close.
craigr |
I will try and check this when I get a chance. The menus certainly look more advanced on the Barcos.
Thanks for the congrats, guys. As for what I am going to do, I still haven't decided. Yes Nash, I was and may still keep one for myself. The problem is I have seven CRTs here and I can't keep them all. My father has been laying into me everyday about these pjs. It is his house, so he can bitch about them all he wants. I can't take them all down to Miami with me, which brings me to my next problem. I usually don't have a place to set up a CRT when I am down there. This time I just might, but that is unconfirmed now. What I hate doing is letting the CRTs just sit around and not being used. I have probably put two hours on the G70 I purchased in January. Also, I am thinking this may be it for me and this back and forth crap between Atlanta and SoFl. I am looking to move somewhere else after the winter season.
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: |
Thanks for the info. I have heard of quads going out, but not control boards. Are you sure, because I thought I checked and didn't see many problems with them?
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Greg Eisemann has told me this personally and Mike Parker has posted the same about the control boards. The reason you don't see too many issues posted is because the projectors are rare in the home theater environment so it is hard to get a sense of how reliable or not they are. Greg, Mike and others who support these in simulator settings have a better idea of the reliability. I seem to recall at Greg telling me the SMPS from the earlier 909s had issues as well. After speaking with Greg I'd liken the 909 to an exotic sports car, awesome performance but $ when something goes wrong.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: |
Thanks for the info. I have heard of quads going out, but not control boards. Are you sure, because I thought I checked and didn't see many problems with them? |
The QUADS having a high failure rate on a 909/Cine9 is something we're not sure of at this time. There seems to not have been that many with high hour usage, when compared to the earlier Barco's that has been around for decades with tons of hour usage. So the jury is still out on the Quads, and though I've been servicing 909's for almost a decade, I've yet to see one with a bad quad. I've heard of the quad failing, but never on one of the many units I've been servicing.
| Quote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | And BTW the G90 will focus BETTER than the Barco's will. G90 and Barco are similar in performance, but the G90 has more bandwidth and better flapping capability... but they are close.
craigr |
I will try and check this when I get a chance. The menus certainly look more advanced on the Barcos |
That's because they are more advanced. It was designed for a more serious and specific application than any of the other CRT projectors. The menus also have technical data and voltage reading of the SMPS and other internal operations.
The 909 also has the best focusing system. And that also explains why the designers had special lenses designed for it. The 10E lenses are special design for the 909.
If I could guess, I would say the designers intent was to make it a truly 180mhz CRT projector. In making that happen, they needed to either design a discrete neck board, or have video output module designed for their neck board. It looks like they went with having a module designed. My guess is, that the module once designed proved to not make that 180mhz intent come possible.
The 909 is a very advanced designed CRT projector that used some boards form their previous 'S' models. Those boards are few, with the exception of the neck boards, the entire video chain is basically the same as the 'S' series.
Bandwidth wise. There's very little difference between the G90 and 909. Neither lives up the their rated bandwidth, and I doubt if either exceeds a 100mhz in actual bandwidth.
In comparison though, the 909 would have the edge over the G90 in bandwidth.
The 909 is not a bad machine to own at all. The only problem with owning one is parts availability, to include the cost of acquiring new parts for it.
If you keep one, keep two..
Though the controls boards have been known to fail, I've been able to repair about 4 of them.
The QUADS and control boards will be the bigger part problems for this projector. I've not been able to successfully repair ever control board that I've worked on, only most of them.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that is good news about the control board Mike. I guess if Curt had one to play with he could fix these things. The company that worked on these pjs was called Beehive or at least it said Quality Repair - Beehive on the tag.
I didn't get to play with them yesterday. I had to mow the lawn. I will try today, but my father has asked me to paint the deck. I did pick up a sheet of Gatorfoam and I must say that I am impressed. I can't wait to see how this screen performs for the $60 that I paid for it.
I did get some good news yesterday. My situation in SoFl has worked out better than I thought. I may be taking all of the pjs down there and giving each one their own room. Seriously, I think I am going to keep at least one now.
On the performance differences between the G90, 909 and 9500, I can't comment as I haven't played with them enough. As Mike mentioned about the focusing, it is much better than what I have been used to. I never and I repeat never was able to focus that good on an XG. I mean that is 1600x1200@60 and it looks like a digital. The best way to hash this out would be at VDC. If they are amenable, then I would be willing to stop in with a 909 and G90.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | Geeze Spanky. You must be one buff dude if you not only haul those 4 909's into the house, but then you get them to jump through hoops and do stupid pet tricks.
(BTW: YOU SUCK!) |
Oh, I had to reply to this. I am huge. Actually, I am 5'9" and 170lbs. I am trying to correct for incorrect exercise patterns at the moment. Consequently, my best sumo deadlift is around 250. I was doing a set of 10 with 50 lbs on Wed. This was to concentrate on correct form. Anyway, the point is that these things are still beasts for me. Fortunately, the 909s are probably the published 185lbs. Without the lenses, they are probably 130lbs. The G90 is easily a hell of a lot heavier. It does have the nice handles though.
It was funny when I was loading them. The gov guy just unloaded them right by my van and backed up his forklift and said "How are you going to get them in the van?". If I didn't take the lenses off, then I would probably still be there.
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Are you trying to make a G909 or what? You should at least put NSFW in the title because of that pic.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously the G90 is not a willing partner. It took its lenses off. Is that the CRT equivalent of a bag over your head??
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:46 am Post subject: |
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It's like CRT "Shawshank" in that garage!!!
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Adam,
I assume you are joking about the NSFW.
I played with them a little tonight. I hooked up my desktop to see what I could do. I could get 2048x1536@60, but it wasn't that well delineated. I am starting to think it is my computer. The laptop was pretty sharp, but the desktop was less so. I will play with it some more when I get a chance.
Most of tonight was testing and playing with the screen. I bought a piece of 3/16" Gatorfoam in 4x8 size for $60. I think this screen is great for the money. I tested some other samples to see what they look like. The others were Gatorplast, Sintra and Dibond. The Dibond is a little to glossy, which is unfortunate. This would be the best substrate if they had it in a more matte finish. The Sintra is a little less glossy and probably somewhere near DW. The Gatorplast is more matte like Gatorfoam. The Gatorplast looked and a little blue, while the Sintra and Gatorfoam looked about right. I will have to double check my measurements. I am going to send these to some guys for a more accurate reading on their color levels. Anyway, these have some great potential so stay tuned.
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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1536 lines was the limiting factor in your test.
Dial that down to 1080 or 1200, i.e. 2048x1080 or 2048x1200 and you will get much better results.
In the end you will be using 1920x1080 at 72 Hz or the like anyhow, so you shouldn't invest too much time in those higher resolutions
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: |
| CIR Engineering wrote: | And BTW the G90 will focus BETTER than the Barco's will. G90 and Barco are similar in performance, but the G90 has more bandwidth and better flapping capability... but they are close.
craigr |
I will try and check this when I get a chance. The menus certainly look more advanced on the Barcos. |
Yeah, the 909 is way more advanced in terms of software that's for sure. But the G90's system is just as capable as the 909 and slightly more so. The G90 has no manually adjustable ring magnets so you do all magnetic focusing inside the menus. This allows all pole alignment to be done with your face at the screen and also allows for separate pole alignment for every scan rate at the center as well as zones. I am pretty sure the 909 has all the same zones as the G90(if I recall), but you are a little more constrained at the center for all but the primary scan rate.
They are both totally awesome designs and I wish like Mike says they had made the signal chain a little better in both the G90 and 909. If you keep a 909 do like Mike and I suggest and keep another for parts. If you have to, strip the parts machine totally down and box all the parts in storage.
craigr
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Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| kschmit2 wrote: | 1536 lines was the limiting factor in your test.
Dial that down to 1080 or 1200, i.e. 2048x1080 or 2048x1200 and you will get much better results.
In the end you will be using 1920x1080 at 72 Hz or the like anyhow, so you shouldn't invest too much time in those higher resolutions |
The more I think about it the more I think it is the computer. In those patterns in the first post, the 909 is fully resolving the one off/ one on with 1600x1200@60. That is coming from the laptop with an Intel chip. From my desktop, 1080p wasn't resolving with Nvidia chip. The resolutions are roughly the same bandwidth.
I have spent the last two hours working on the 909s. Three of the four are firing up. I am trying to figure out what is wrong with the last one. I know it has to be something simple. The red LED on the back comes on and everything looks good, but no power up. I have switch a lot of boards already including the quad and those are all good. I am going to get back out there and switch out some more boards and hopefully find out what is going on.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | In those patterns in the first post, the 909 is fully resolving the one off/ one on with 1600x1200@60. That is coming from the laptop with an Intel chip. From my desktop, 1080p wasn't resolving with Nvidia chip. |
I can't imagine the chipset itself having anything to do with it; at the chip level everything's going to be digital. The D/As aren't going to be affected by the chipset. Maybe the card itself has some issue - connector? EM?
Swap boards with something else. I've never seen a VGA card, no matter how lousy, that can't resolve 1920x1080 on an analog output. Something is broken.
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