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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: |
I have it working now.  I can see where you are talking about of the needs in improvement. The cool thing though is it works. The kids and the wife dig it. It sure has been a long ass weekend though. Several resolutions setup and even lost a couple. The lost a couple part hurt the most but I made it through it.
I picked up a couple of LG Glasses from Best Buy to try out but they will not keep sync. I tried the "black tape" trick and it didn't work so back they go. I would have gotten the Samsung glasses but they were out of stock.
I'm glad it works but those glasses I picked up to try out with have got to go. Man those things are uncomfortable on my big ass head. Plus I cannot sit in the front row because the LCD panels on them are too small to cover the whole screen area.
The LG Glasses were great in that regard if they would just keep sync and not drop off. Plus, they put out more light than the cheap glasses.
Cliff |
Cool nicely done Cliff.
Most everyone who has come into see the 3D has been impressed thus far. My wife is the only other videophile who has seen the picture and she and I think it is pretty good, but needs some more improvement... it's funny because she has become more bothered by less than perfect video than I am (makes me so proud, tears). I can hardly wait for you to see the setup on Thursday Cliff.
What you say about the LG glasses is hilarious  I have a big head too and I even have trouble with the Samsung's though I think they are bigger. Also, I don't think LG ever suspected that their glasses would be used on a 100"+ screen. Also, in an email this morning I sent you some stuff about getting you five pair of Samsung glasses, and I suspect you will like it  The Samsung glasses are large enough to cover the screen as well.
craigr
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: |
What you say about the LG glasses is hilarious I have a big head too and I even have trouble with the Samsung's though I think they are bigger. Also, I don't think LG ever suspected that their glasses would be used on a 100"+ screen.
craigr |
I doubt that. LG has a 3D pj that they were showing at Cedia.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: |
I doubt that. LG has a 3D pj that they were showing at Cedia. |
Than I hope they plan to have some bigger glasses as well!
craigr
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opv
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 202
Location: Emek Hefer,Israel
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: |
I doubt that. LG has a 3D pj that they were showing at Cedia. |
Than I hope they plan to have some bigger glasses as well!
craigr |
the LG 3D projector uses passive glasses (polarized)...
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| opv wrote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: |
I doubt that. LG has a 3D pj that they were showing at Cedia. |
Than I hope they plan to have some bigger glasses as well!
craigr |
the LG 3D projector uses passive glasses (polarized)... |
Even in the USA? I thought that was not going to be made available here, only in Asia? If that is true than the glasses Cliff got are not going to work with the JVC projectors Spanky;)
craigr
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, I can't remember, as I really don't care about 3d. Maybe Crabb remembers what they had. I thought that their demo was pretty good IIRC.
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Craig,
I missed this point but are you using Moome's IFB-FullHD V2 Sony input board (modded by Mike P.) to play 3D from the lumagen ?
Thx
John
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | Craig,
I missed this point but are you using Moome's IFB-FullHD V2 Sony input board (modded by Mike P.) to play 3D from the lumagen ?
Thx
John |
Yes pretty much, but we've tweaked the filtration on the Moome board a little more for better resolution... not that that has anything to do with 3D. The Radiance3D will send whatever EDID data to the source that you specify. So in the custom EDID menu you just set "3D" to "YES" so that a 3D capable source sends 3D. This lets you turn 3D on in a BD player so that it switches to 3D automatically.
Until yesterday there were only two of the Lumagen glasses sync boxes; I had one and Lumagen had one. Yesterday Jim let me know that he had nine more built. Jim is just waiting for the covers and then he can start shipping and building more glasses boxes.
Pat has the software for controlling the 3D IR emission perfect. He got it just the way I wanted it, and Pat took care of every last thing I asked for. There is a master timing delay adjustment in the "OTHER > I/O DEVICES > 3D GLASSES" that can set a polarity, turn IR on/off, and to set a master sync delay. Than in the "OUTPUT > STYLES" menu there is 3D glasses again where there is a delay offset adjustment that is based against the master delay. This way you can have 8 different glasses sync delays which can be used for different timing delays for different aspect ratio sources and different resolutions. You can assign the delays per memory input per resolution.
It's very sweet.
craigr
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the explanation Craig,
Does the lumagen glasses sync box includes the IR emitter as well? If not, what are you using to generate the IR signal ?
I assume that Moome's IFB-fullHD V2 should also be adjusted on R195 value to rize the 1,8V rail arround 1.9V.
It's soon time to try the blu-ray 3D playback on my G90
John
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | Thanks for the explanation Craig,
Does the lumagen glasses sync box includes the IR emitter as well? If not, what are you using to generate the IR signal ?
I assume that Moome's IFB-fullHD V2 should also be adjusted on R195 value to rize the 1,8V rail arround 1.9V.
It's soon time to try the blu-ray 3D playback on my G90
John |
Hi John,
Lumagen does not provide a transmitter as there are many available. You can use any IR emitter that drives the glasses of your choice as long as it accepts the industry standard high/low TTL input signal to drive the transmitter. However, do verify that the pin-outs are the same for transmitter and Lumagen.
The transmitter I am using now is the GEN2 from 3DTVCorp. They have a web page, but usually they prefer that you buy through eBay or Amazon.
http://www.3dmagic.com/
http://www.3dmagic.com/catalog/Gen2hometransmitter.html
I have only had to adjust the voltages on a few of the V2 IFB cards. All the others have worked fine with Moome's regular voltage for the HDMI chip. I have also found that 1.85 volts is enough on the IFB's I have changed. I would run your card as-is until you notice an actual issue... such as random frames of snow that are not cable related.
Kind regards,
craigr
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Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Craig,
What is the best shutter 3D glasses with the G90 from your experiments ?
When Lumagen will release the 3D dongle (sync box) on the market ?
John
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | Thanks Craig,
What is the best shutter 3D glasses with the G90 from your experiments ?
When Lumagen will release the 3D dongle (sync box) on the market ?
John |
Jim has a few more 3D sync boxes built and he is just waiting for the covers. I think he will finish these tomorrow (Monday) and might be able to ship some on Tuesday. The hardware design is finished and the Radiance software is very good and only new features will be added at this point. If you want a CRT sync dongle, contact your regular Lumagen dealer and order it through him You may also preorder into the next batch as I suspect the first lot will sell out the first day. I don't think it will take long for Lumagen to get more though.
At this point in time, my favorite glasses are the Samsung version. They work well, look about as good as any 3D glasses, are available relatively cheaply if you know where to look, and are among the best for light transmittance...
However, yesterday I worked on a 3D Mits rear projecting DLP which uses the same glasses (exactly) as Samsung, except Mits flips the polarity so that Samsung and Mitsubishi glasses cannot be used interchangeably. In any event, I noticed that many of my 3D test patterns ghosted on the Mits DLP the same way that they ghost on my G90 setup. I also noticed that the ghosting could be reduced or eliminated by turning my head and looking at the picture from the side. This makes me wonder if some of the ghosting I have been blaming on the green tube may actually be the Samsung glasses.
So I cannot for sure recommend the exact best glasses because I think this is all still in the air. But for the moment the Samsung variety are my favorite.
Incidentally, I have been looking at the same 3D on my G90 for months now. I have learned to spot every last flaw and every last ghost in the video samples I have been using. I think this has made me hyper critical of the 3D on the G90.
Everyone else who has been over has loved the 3D, but none who had seen the system were videophiles. Cliff came over to see the system for the first time this past Thursday. It's safe to say that he was highly impressed and that the 3D totally exceeded his expectations. Cliff was very satisfied and I think he is as picky of a videophile as any of us. Cliff also brought some Bluray's that I had not seen yet including "Step Up 3D" and "Resident Evil 3D," With new material that I had not been dissecting for the past months, I was even impressed with my own system Those two titles looked amazing so I ordered the discs the same night right after Cliff left.
Furthermore, I worked on a Mitsubishi 3D DLP yesterday. I work on a lot of these, but this was the first that had 3D actually running on it. Let me say that the G90 running 3D absolutely smoked the Mitsubishi 3D in virtually every way. The only positive on the Mits was slightly less ghosting, but EVERYTHING else on the G90 system buried the Mitsubishi. If a manufacturer thinks that the Mits DLP is acceptable for 3D, than I have been very over critical of the CRT system because what we have here is MUCH MUCH MUCH better that what Mitsubishi is doing.
I think I have been too hard on the Radiance and G90 running 3D. It looks better than I thought it did compared to other displays on the market today. And also, Patrick is about to release a new firmware that will allow me to tweak the timings further to make it even better with even less ghosting.
At this point I think I can easily say that this project has ended in success Now to get the hardware to the masses.
craigr
ps My wife and I watched AVITAR two nights ago and it was jaw dropping. That is some fantastic 3D and it looked magnificent on the G90!
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Fine Craig,
Thank you for all these explanations and experiences !
I'm gonna order the necessary hardware soon, can't wait to play 3D on the G90 !
John
[EDIT] About Samsung Glasses, there's two refs. available : SSG2100AB (CR2025 battery) and SSG-2200AR (rechargeable), which one did you tried ?
[EDIT2] just ordered Lumagen CRT 3D dongle tonight 
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | Fine Craig,
Thank you for all these explanations and experiences !
I'm gonna order the necessary hardware soon, can't wait to play 3D on the G90 !
John
[EDIT] About Samsung Glasses, there's two refs. available : SSG2100AB (CR2025 battery) and SSG-2200AR (rechargeable), which one did you tried ?
[EDIT2] just ordered Lumagen CRT 3D dongle tonight |
I like the glasses that use a disposable battery. I ordered 50x CR2025 batteries for less than $7 delivered total. Each battery should last close to 200 hours. I would rather just install a new battery in the middle of a movie than wait for my rechargeable to recharge when in a pinch
craigr
_________________
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Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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For what it's worth one of my clients stopped by yesterday to check out the 3D system. This client has an exceptionally good eye and is quite knowledgeable on spotting flaws in an image.
The twist is that the client hates 3D, but has seen quite a few 3D movies in the theater or IMAX. After seeing the G90 setup run, he felt the image was "about equivalent" to seeing 3D in a good theater 
craigr
_________________
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Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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kaylee18
Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Do you guys think 3D will stick? To me it's novel, but a distraction from the movie.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| kaylee18 wrote: | | Do you guys think 3D will stick? To me it's novel, but a distraction from the movie. |
I have no idea if it will stick at home or not and I do agree with you that it is a novelty and that 3D does tend to distract from the movie... but I sure am having fun looking at it and showing off the 3D I have found that the longer I see the 3D the easier it is for me to handle and get used to. The 3D looks more and more realistic to me as time goes on.
craigr
_________________
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Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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For those who may have missed it, I am hosting a meet on March 26th to show off the G90 and Radiance running 3D. All from the forums are welcome.
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=25465.html
craigr
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Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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David_Web
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | David_Web wrote: | Any one found some cheap wired glasses. And a solid way for it to work with a HTPC. Games included?
No need for copy protected path though as I never care about that anyway.
I'd like to try out 3D but not enough to drop 100$ at it.
I haven't bought a video card yet, but it might tip the balance to nVidia if they work in 3D without the nVidia 3D kit. (don't want glasses that ghost with nVidia doing nothing about it) |
I have a cheap adapter and wired glasses that includes everything you need to start watching 3D from a HTPC. I would sell the kit for $50 plus shipping and PayPal fees. Includes glasses, sync extractor, and driver software. It uses RGBHV and extracts sync from the Vsync pulse.
Shoot me an email if you are interested.
craigr@cir-engineering.com
craigr |
Thanks. It will be a while before I get everything running but Ill send you a message if you still have it then.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kaylee18 wrote: | | Do you guys think 3D will stick? To me it's novel, but a distraction from the movie. |
Yes, it is definitely going to stick. I had attended a seminar from one of the leading commercial display manufacturers some time back. At that seminar, in another section of the facility, we were giving a tour of the big and most recent Digital Cinema projectors that are being used in some theaters, and will be the technology of the theaters that will be also going D-Cinema.
That new D-Cinema technology is deeply designed around 3D technology. And it appears that the designers were following where the movie makers were taking the industry. Mainly because of the technology involved in securing the movie content, and $$$$$ Hollywood has spent to make this all happen, they (Hollywood) has set the future and direction of the film and content industry.
The non 3D theaters will suffer from these changes, because they would have to keep up with the industry.
There was also talk about Sony, and it's involvement in 3D and the industry...
The newer 3D D-Cinema projectors are very bright, sharp and finally of the 3 CHIP DLP technology, the colors are getting closer to CRT. They are still using the black chip technology for DLP, which allows for better black levels, because by diminishing the opportunity for light to reflect between the mirrors it makes for better and cleaner low level performance. And that makes for a better overall image. But getting really good black level performance out of any high power digital technology is still something for a future technology. But 3D will somewhat take the focus off of the low end...
So it's not what the consumer will decide. Hollywood has already decided the future for the consumer, by already invested in the technology and equipment to make it happen. And so has the main display technology companies.
The industry is already ahead of 3D, with it already being in a small amount of the theaters to date. The theaters will be tasked to keep up..
Me, I don't like 3D, never have, and doubt I ever will like it.
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