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kal
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom.W wrote: | Redbox now rents blu ray discs. Are you saying they are just copy's ?
Sorry I did read some of this thread but not all I guess. 
The one thing I hate about Netflix.............
http://www.netflixsux.com/
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I said I think the RedBox DVDs were bad copies. I have no proof that they are any worse than any other DVD except to me, when using a RedBox DVD in my system, in consistently looks worse then every other DVD that I have bought, or rented elsewhere.
I have never rented a Blu-ray from RedBox because it isn't offered near me yet, well within 37 miles anyway, and that drive sure ain't worth it just to see a movie, I can wait for Net-Flix 2 day delivery.
Also I have streamed Net-Flix to my computer and it looks like ass on a 15" Monitor pans are blotchy as all get out, on a 119' screen I don't even want to think about it.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | Tom.W wrote: | Redbox now rents blu ray discs. Are you saying they are just copy's ?
Sorry I did read some of this thread but not all I guess.
The one thing I hate about Netflix.............
http://www.netflixsux.com/
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I said I think the RedBox DVDs were bad copies. I have no proof that they are any worse than any other DVD except to me, when using a RedBox DVD in my system, in consistently looks worse then every other DVD that I have bought, or rented elsewhere.
I have never rented a Blu-ray from RedBox because it isn't offered near me yet, well within 37 miles anyway, and that drive sure ain't worth it just to see a movie, I can wait for Net-Flix 2 day delivery.
Also I have streamed Net-Flix to my computer and it looks like ass on a 15" Monitor pans are blotchy as all get out, on a 119' screen I don't even want to think about it. |
I think that Net-Flix streaming going to a PC is dumbed down (highly compressed) more than what goes into a dedicated STB. The industry is so spooked that someone is going to copy there content if it goes into a PC they soften it up really bad. It just shows how "out of touch" they are. I'm not saying streaming to a STB would be a lot better...But it probably would be somewhat better, still not BD quality. Personally I haven't watched a SD DVD in years...They just look like crap to me.
Mike
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | I said I think the RedBox DVDs were bad copies. I have no proof that they are any worse than any other DVD except to me, when using a RedBox DVD in my system, in consistently looks worse then every other DVD that I have bought, or rented elsewhere. |
I have no proof one way or the other, but I haven't noticed any problem with any Redbox DVD I've ever rented. For the most part, they looked like the same crappy SD DVD that you buy at Amazon, Walmart, or anywhere else for that matter.
I have noticed in renting BD's from Blockbuster that occasionally, I get a disc with a gray label specifically labeled "RENTAL", so obviously the studios are make special discs available exclusively to the video rental industry. But, I haven't noticed any picture- or sound-quality issues at all. Rather, it looked like the discs were excised of any additional or bonus content or any secondary audio tracks or alternate endings. The menu basically amounts to "PLAY MOVIE" and that's about it.
| dturco wrote: | | I have never rented a Blu-ray from RedBox because it isn't offered near me yet, well within 37 miles anyway, and that drive sure ain't worth it just to see a movie, I can wait for Net-Flix 2 day delivery. |
Redbox has an aggressive BD expansion plan. It will go to more affluent demographics and only have a few titles at first, but will quickly grow with BD penetration. The Redboxes by my house (5-6 within a mile) had no BD a few months ago, and now all have half a dozen titles each.
| dturco wrote: | | Also I have streamed Net-Flix to my computer and it looks like ass on a 15" Monitor pans are blotchy as all get out, on a 119' screen I don't even want to think about it. |
When did you do that last and did you have the same Internet connection you have now, and is the computer a fairly fast, fairly recent computer? The quality of the Netflix stream is dependent on your internet bandwidth, the speed of your computer, whether there is other traffic on your internet connection, and even the quality of the original movie.
| dturco wrote: | It seems that if i want to try the streaming I will absolutely have to have a router correct?
What the quality of the stream is open to debate but to get streaming I will need the router.
So If I try this at all, which the above posts seem to indicate not to, due to the poor quality of the streaming, it seems that it will be a waste of money doing the router just for the NetFlix. |
It depends on your cable company, but in most cases, yes, you'll need a router. As for the quality of the streaming, it depends on what you expect. If you're going to expect BD-quality 1080p, you'll be sorely disappointed. If on the other hand, you're used to highly-compressed OTA, satellite, or cable at 1080i (none of which win any prizes for bandwidth or PQ), then 720p streaming from Netflix is a perfectly nice way to watch TV shows, older catalog stuff, special interest stuff, etc...
| dturco wrote: | | Does anyone have any direct experience with NetFlix streaming to their P/J at 1080p or I guess desktop if you can see bitrate of the stream? |
First, I don't believe Netflix is 1080p. Streaming 1080p just isn't commercially viable right now because very few people have internet connections with bandwidth that would allow for watching the movie without significant wait/download times. If it's compressed enough that a lot people could watch it, the resolution would be lost to the compression. Which is why Apple, Netflix, Roku, and others (but not all) generally limit their streaming offerings to 720p.
| dturco wrote: | | Honestly if it only streams in at 6-8 mbps it's no better than a DVD. |
That's not true. 6-8mbps on a DVD is MPEG-2, a codec that was developed over 15 years ago. It's ancient. Apple, Netflix, and others use much newer, more efficient codecs like VC1 and h.264. A 1500kbps h.264 encode can look as good (or better than) a 6mbps MPEG-2 encode. A 720p stream looks like crap at 8mbps in MPEG-2, but a 720p stream encoded to VC1 or h.264 at 8mbps looks pretty decent.
I consider streaming from Netflix et al a nice alternative to traditional "TV viewing" - or non-critical viewing. For instance, it looks great in a living room on a flat panel for instance. When I want to sit down in the theater and watch a movie on the other hand, I watch Blu-ray.
SC
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ecrabb
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | I think that Net-Flix streaming going to a PC is dumbed down (highly compressed) more than what goes into a dedicated STB. The industry is so spooked that someone is going to copy there content if it goes into a PC they soften it up really bad. It just shows how "out of touch" they are. I'm not saying streaming to a STB would be a lot better...But it probably would be somewhat better, still not BD quality. Personally I haven't watched a SD DVD in years...They just look like crap to me. |
I don't think so, Mike. As far as I know, players use the same bandwidth detection routines and deliver an encode to fit the bandwidth regardless of playback device. What could be different is that when you looked it on a PC, you were looking at a super-sharp LCD panel that revealed every little bit of softness and compression artifact, while the projector playing from the STB softened and obscured some of the artifacts.
SC
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | MikeEby wrote: | | I think that Net-Flix streaming going to a PC is dumbed down (highly compressed) more than what goes into a dedicated STB. The industry is so spooked that someone is going to copy there content if it goes into a PC they soften it up really bad. It just shows how "out of touch" they are. I'm not saying streaming to a STB would be a lot better...But it probably would be somewhat better, still not BD quality. Personally I haven't watched a SD DVD in years...They just look like crap to me. |
I don't think so, Mike. As far as I know, players use the same bandwidth detection routines and deliver an encode to fit the bandwidth regardless of playback device. What could be different is that when you looked it on a PC, you were looking at a super-sharp LCD panel that revealed every little bit of softness and compression artifact, while the projector playing from the STB softened and obscured some of the artifacts.
SC |
Your right....It was that way up until May of this year.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/netflix-hd-streaming-now-available-for-pc-and-mac/14801
Mike
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ecrabb
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, that's right! I completely forgot you were stuck with SD on the computer for awhile. Heck, HD streaming on the 360 just started last summer! Man, I forgot all about the whole SD-only on the computer thing. Geez... May seems like an eternity ago! Too busy this summer!!!
SC
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Wow S.C. that's a lot info there,
1st, I have no proof either about RedBox downgrading quality, just my own experience that appears to suggest they do.
2nd, The Blu-rays,37 miles away only appeared last week 
3rd, I streamed T-2 last night for 15 minutes on this connection and the computer is an ancient 2 year old Acer Aspire, Pentium D processor, 1gb memory, 160gb hd, DVD only drive no Blu-Ray.
4Th, I will need a router Charter cable.
5th, I "think" from Net-Flix banners on their site, the can stream 1080p.
6th, Mpeg, Vc-1, h.264 I have no way of knowing what would be stream from Net-Flix so .... IDK what to expect.
7th, I was only thinking about critical MOVIE viewing at this point, but you do make a valid point for using the router to do traditional T.V. fill in duty.
So maybe I'll need a new computer, a new Living room TV, or a second set top box to receive the Net-Flix stream, or re-purpose the Sony Bd to the living room, and buy the new Oppo and.....
No wonder I always just stop and use what I have. 
Thanks for all of the info S.C. 
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http://www.hulu.com/firefly
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | MikeEby wrote: | | I think that Net-Flix streaming going to a PC is dumbed down (highly compressed) more than what goes into a dedicated STB. The industry is so spooked that someone is going to copy there content if it goes into a PC they soften it up really bad. It just shows how "out of touch" they are. I'm not saying streaming to a STB would be a lot better...But it probably would be somewhat better, still not BD quality. Personally I haven't watched a SD DVD in years...They just look like crap to me. |
I don't think so, Mike. As far as I know, players use the same bandwidth detection routines and deliver an encode to fit the bandwidth regardless of playback device. What could be different is that when you looked it on a PC, you were looking at a super-sharp LCD panel that revealed every little bit of softness and compression artifact, while the projector playing from the STB softened and obscured some of the artifacts.
SC |
Your right....It was that way up until May of this year.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/netflix-hd-streaming-now-available-for-pc-and-mac/14801
Mike |
Wow thanks for this link. No wonder T-2 looked crappy it was S/D not HD. I just watched 10 minutes of Star Gate Continuum in HD streaming from Net-Flix. It looked MUCH better then T-2 did. Still not great, but much, much ,better. Also i have continuum on Blu-Ray so I was familiar with what to expect. The picture wasn't all that bad the pans still look odd, but no Blocky, crappy, scrambled-up mess.
Side thought>When I watch S/D up-scaled to 960p 72hz the pans look odd to me there too. Using a lumagen Vision Pro. What's going on with my eye-brain interface that is causing me to perceive this oddness? Anything at 60hz looks perfect. It's not jitter or judder it just seems to flow wrong... Hmm.
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dturco
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Damn 
RedBox in my town now has BLU-RAY 
If only it was here last week I wouldn't have even started this post. We'll NetFix is free for the first month so no cost for my impatience, huh. 
Now the time wasted on this well.... it's not really because I learned something, like always you guy's have the answer before it even happens.
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:54 am Post subject: |
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They JUST dropped a box down the road from my house at the gas station. I checked and it has TWO BR's.
Losers
Repomen
I don't really want to see either but I feel like I have to rent them so they know there is demand here for them.
What's $3, right?
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Tom.W
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't it the studios that sought to decentize redbox from releasing BRs within 30 days of movies hitting the PPV and retail sales? I thought they yielded too easily, and it was followed quickly with DirecTV's PPV advertising them getting it a month before redbox.
I thought redbox's fees were $1/night for DVDs and $1.49/night for BDs. At $3 they are pushing it.
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
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Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was just thinking last week their stock price has to be climbing, but it appears I missed it by months. It looks like it might still be a good buy as the market turns around, but the spike looks to be have been 6 months ago.
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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$3 prices won't last long. They are taking advantage of the "early adoptors" wanting blue ray and are willing to pay the $3. As it goes more mainstream, the prices will come down just as DVD did, I think.
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dturco
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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The Redbox is $1.49 for 1 movie, and GregMitch rented them both, so ...$3. 
Now here's a funny thing,even the Blu-ray looks off to me from red box  {Clash of the Titans} The movie I got from NetFlix looked perfect. {WolfMan.}
I guess I'm just nuts
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ecrabb
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dave, you mean you got the same title from both Netflix and Redbox and A-B'd them?
SC
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dturco
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Dave, you mean you got the same title from both Netflix and Redbox and A-B'd them?
SC |
Not yet, it's just a gut reaction, but I am going to just to put my feeling to test.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| dturco wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | Dave, you mean you got the same title from both Netflix and Redbox and A-B'd them?
SC |
Not yet, it's just a gut reaction, but I am going to just to put my feeling to test. |
I can't imagine redbox actually paying money to rip something, re-encode it with lower quality, and go to the expense of pressing a whole run of copies of the crappy smaller thing, leaving empty space no the disc. It defies logic.
You could say, well, the studios are supplying them with deliberately low quality versions, but again, what possible motive would there be? It would cost them a ton of money, too, and it won't make RedBox look bad - it'd make BluRay look bad, which is the last thing studios want to have happen, even if they do hate RedBox.
As far as why RedBox things are full of the worst movies available - that's another issue. Oh, look! It's Blind Date, Leatherheads, and some horror movie I've never heard of!
The best thing I ever saw in a RedBox was this:
It's short, but the cast makes up for it.
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ecrabb
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:44 am Post subject: |
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I saw that in my redbox too, Perisoft... We thought about getting it, but I just can't see spending $1 to watch a 1-minute movie. Besides, I've never liked that Empty Case guy... Obviously you like him, which makes me wonder about your taste. What's he ever been in that didn't suck?
SC
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