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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:31 am Post subject: Odd Marquee 8500 setup issues - certain functions are out. |
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OK, after the failure of my 8000 HVPS about a month ago, I sourced 2 8500's with less than 1400 hrs. on the CRTs for under $735 for both. Seemed like a reasonably decent investment in spares, if anything.
I'm in the process of setting up the first one. I did do a full service menu reset at the get-go. Most of the mechanical and electronic setup is pretty well roughed in and even at this stage I can see improvements over my 8000 just with setup test patterns (overall focus, astig. etc.)!
However...I have a couple problems that I suspect are inter-related and I'm trying to get a grip on where to hunt for the issue.
I have several setup screens that "do nothing" in that the visual slider bar/numeric reads are going from 0-100 but with NO change in the picture.
These are the subsets of settings that are not working (everything else IS):
Top - Keystone/Pincushion
Bottom - Keystone/Pincushion
Bow - H or V
V skew (H skew works)
Is there a commonality in these functions from a control/board based scenario? As a side note - the 2nd PJ (both sourced from the same eBay seller) was listed as "was working - HDM board was removed for use in another projector".
Another thing that may or may not be related; I also at the moment cannot get the picture to horizontal sync no matter what I feed it, from a known good source used previously for quite some time. This may be a separate issue and one of my own setup issues I just need to work through, or, could it tie into the above? The main "*" menu shows a "-" for Horizontal input Fz as well.
Menus, built in test patterns etc. all look great!
Ideas oh knowledgeable ones?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Yes, do the sets say 'Ultra' on them, because that's what's programmed into the CLM right now.
The focus board controls the top and bottom pin and key, so it sounds like the focus board may not be an Ultra, or it's defective.
A non Ultra focus board only has parts on 1/2 the board, just like the one in your old 8000, a true Ultra board has components all over it.
I think the bow and V skew might also be on the focus board. If the set is an Ultra, it MUST have an Ultra focus board in it to work properly. SOunds like someone before you swapped focus boards maybe with a non Ultra to get a focus problem solved, then gave up when the key and pin stopped working. 
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | Yes, do the sets say 'Ultra' on them, because that's what's programmed into the CLM right now.
The focus board controls the top and bottom pin and key, so it sounds like the focus board may not be an Ultra, or it's defective.
A non Ultra focus board only has parts on 1/2 the board, just like the one in your old 8000, a true Ultra board has components all over it.
I think the bow and V skew might also be on the focus board. If the set is an Ultra, it MUST have an Ultra focus board in it to work properly. Sounds like someone before you swapped focus boards maybe with a non Ultra to get a focus problem solved, then gave up when the key and pin stopped working. |
Well it's our bajillionth +90 degree day in Michigan and I'm done for tonight, but from memory, I do not believe they are Ultras. I will take a close look tomorrow when I start "round 3".
I have my old 8000 focus board next to me, so I see what you mean by "1/2 loaded". In reality, the 2nd PJ I won't be grabbing until this Saturday (a "quick" 400 mile R/T to Cleveland just like the first one two weeks ago).
I'm hoping to get one stable 8500 out of all of this with a set of clean CRT spares, and based on math, at worst I would break near even if I had to part it all out...But I'd rather just watch movies
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | So you got the 250 marquee from e-bay huh?
One part of the focus board would be bare if not an ultra board. the ultra Board is entirely full of electronics.
Athanasios |
Yep and the other one for $400 2 weeks prior. $30 in gas and $11 in toll roads x2. My " time" not being counted (~6 1/2 hrs each trip) since CRT owners don't "count time" in this dedicated/insane hobby, right?
There is no doubt that the CRT's are as clean as the seller claimed, now I just need to get the electronics all straight!
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | Yes, do the sets say 'Ultra' on them, because that's what's programmed into the CLM right now.
The focus board controls the top and bottom pin and key, so it sounds like the focus board may not be an Ultra, or it's defective.
A non Ultra focus board only has parts on 1/2 the board, just like the one in your old 8000, a true Ultra board has components all over it.
I think the bow and V skew might also be on the focus board. If the set is an Ultra, it MUST have an Ultra focus board in it to work properly. Sounds like someone before you swapped focus boards maybe with a non Ultra to get a focus problem solved, then gave up when the key and pin stopped working. |
Well as it turns out, the S/N tag claims this is an 8500LC Ultra! The CRTs are shielded in such a way that I didn't yet notice any bellows etc. and if it is an LC, the glycol must be clean/full since staring at the crt faces through the lenses didn't obviously reveal the LC aspect either.
However - the Focus PCB is fully loaded and not a 1/2 board like my 8000. Anything besides swollen caps/obvious heat or solder issues I can look for on the focus PCB?
This still may very well be a Franken-beast - what else I should look for/at to help prove its "true" lineage as well as solve this odd issue?!?
Also, is there any comprehensive list of what can directly swap from an 8000? I ask in general, let alone since my HVPS died a couple months after I fully re-capped most everything (to great result I might add, albiet short lived).
Thanks, as always!!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: |
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If it is an 8500LC the lenses would be HD 10's of some variation.
That is an ultra Focus board. Also look at the CLM smaller board the DPB, there should be some green or white fly wires on that board, a couple long and short.
If so you have the right CLM, vesion 4.xx should be there on U35 and U7 on the DPB should be at least 5.6 I think, mine are 5.7 but are newer.
One more thing to look at are the boards on the rear heat sink, they should also have some fly wires on each board.
Athanasios
_________________
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | If it is an 8500LC the lenses would be HD 10's of some variation.
That is an ultra Focus board. Also look at the CLM smaller board the DPB, there should be some green or white fly wires on that board, a couple long and short.
If so you have the right CLM, vesion 4.xx should be there on U35 and U7 on the DPB should be at least 5.6 I think, mine are 5.7 but are newer.
One more thing to look at are the boards on the rear heat sink, they should also have some fly wires on each board.
Athanasios |
I'll check tonight!
Thanks -
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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awesome!  Those were on the local craigslist a few months ago, but I didn't go after them. I suppose now with hindsite being 20/20 I should have bought them and used them to have an Ultra machine and spares, but oh well. Glad they are going to someone that will use them as an upgrade. No one should be using an 8000 these days.
_________________
~Paul
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
Post a picture of the convergence board. Your CLM must be v4.2c or higher, DPB 5.5 or higher. Check also that the serial number on-screen (push *) matches the serial number on the labels. An Ultra would have an SN of 28xxxxxxx or higher and build date late 1998 or newer.
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
Post a picture of the convergence board. Your CLM must be v4.2c or higher, DPB 5.5 or higher. Check also that the serial number on-screen (push *) matches the serial number on the labels. An Ultra would have an SN of 28xxxxxxx or higher and build date late 1998 or newer.
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Will do tonight!
Thanks -
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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[quote="mrfixit"] | Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
Post a picture of the convergence board. Your CLM must be v4.2c or higher, DPB 5.5 or higher. Check also that the serial number on-screen (push *) matches the serial number on the labels. An Ultra would have an SN of 28xxxxxxx or higher and build date late 1998 or newer.
. |
OK gang we have a Franken-fu@k unit, at least to some degree.
I have not torn open the unit (it's hanging and I can, but it's a P.I.T.A.) to get a pix of the convergence board yet, but I can "tell" despite conflicting date codes (more later on that) I will have to do the anamorphic mod. Plus, when I pick up the other PJ Saturday, it may have "better chip numbers" making some of this this easier. Or not...
First - the case tag itself says that it is an 8500 Ultra LC with a s/n of 278010005, build date of Feb. 1999.
The "*" screen claims a s/n of 750740054 with a March 1998 date.
I pulled up the other menus and got more info; interestingly U7 was coming up as v0.0...I pulled the board, removed both daughterboards, reseated the chips and noted the info on the respective stickers. Reassembled and now the menu shows U7 as v5.2 which matches the sticker on the chip. The ROM is ver. 4.2c. I have all of the other chip revisions written down as well, if any of those help. Reseating the chips did not solve the missing parameter controls, unfortunately.
My lack of sync and intermittent noise issues went away when I patched into the native input board versus the RGB board I moved from my old PJ. Initial setup looks very good other than the anamorphic issues and the modest inverted bow I get at the top and bottom. If I can't get the right CLV chipset off the next machine or score one though the community, I can live with this anomaly in that even in 4:3 it is barely noticeable and in any letterbox ratio it is "inside" from the area that is affected.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to fix the issue however!
Ideas, feedback etc. is appreciated as well as if anyone has a comprehensive list of what boards, chipsets etc. "clean cross" between various 8000 series units that could be a big help as well.
Thanks all, in advance!
Lewis - aka MrFixit
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| mrfixit wrote: | First - the case tag itself says that it is an 8500 Ultra LC with a s/n of 278010005, build date of Feb. 1999.
The "*" screen claims a s/n of 750740054 with a March 1998 date.
I pulled up the other menus and got more info; interestingly U7 was coming up as v0.0...I pulled the board, removed both daughterboards, reseated the chips and noted the info on the respective stickers. Reassembled and now the menu shows U7 as v5.2 which matches the sticker on the chip. The ROM is ver. 4.2c. I have all of the other chip revisions written down as well, if any of those help. Reseating the chips did not solve the missing parameter controls, unfortunately.
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either of thos build dates will have the newer Mobo and all the firmware is correct. Your missing Geomtery controls are almsot certainly due to a bad FGM or an incorrect CVA without the jumper wires. If the Geom. section of the board is bad on the FGM, and I've seen this a few times so not uncommon, Curt can fix them.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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U7 would need to be at least 5.5 in order for all the geometry features to work.
U35 being 4.2 is OK.
If your CLM has 4.2 for U35 and U7 not being 5.5, either U35 was changed out, or the entire Deflection processor board was changed out.
A deflection processor board with U7 showing 5.2, would not come out of an Ultra.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | U7 would need to be at least 5.5 in order for all the geometry features to work.
U35 being 4.2 is OK.
If your CLM has 4.2 for U35 and U7 not being 5.5, either U35 was changed out, or the entire Deflection processor board was changed out.
A deflection processor board with U7 showing 5.2, would not come out of an Ultra. |
Ultra DPBs have a flywire added across the rear, above the connector pins. An earlier DPB with 5.5 and the flywire should work.
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'll put this thread on hold until sometime on Sunday when I've had the chance to pick up and open up the other PJ. I suspect after a near 400mi R/T in +90 heat, I'll have low motivation to tear into it tomorrow...Then again, who knows.
Once I see what's inside the one I'm grabbing tomorrow, I might have a shot at piece-mealing everything to a more advanced state. As it is, after I do the anamorphic mod, I could still live with what is hanging right now.
Back soon and thanks!
Lewis
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| mrfixit wrote: |
First - the case tag itself says that it is an 8500 Ultra LC with a s/n of 278010005, build date of Feb. 1999.
The "*" screen claims a s/n of 750740054 with a March 1998 date.
Lewis - aka MrFixit |
Serial numbers starting with 75xxxxxxx are factory refurbs; your projector had problems some dealer could not fix.
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | mrfixit wrote: |
First - the case tag itself says that it is an 8500 Ultra LC with a s/n of 278010005, build date of Feb. 1999.
The "*" screen claims a s/n of 750740054 with a March 1998 date.
Lewis - aka MrFixit |
Serial numbers starting with 75xxxxxxx are factory refurbs; your projector had problems some dealer could not fix.
. |
Very useful info and thanks!! Question however - Since the "75xxxxxx" is indicated on-screen, would one presume that it was the controller PCB replaced or is this something the factory did (numerically) just to indicate a refurb overall? Or, could that module been pulled from a different unit (the seller had 4 - part of some NASA sale) which was the refurb. Not that the scenario is essential to determine, more so that I'm a curious mofo
Lewis
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
Serial numbers are not stored on the control board, they are stored on a memory chip on the backplane. The chip was overwritten by a new serial number 75xxxxxxx.
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mrfixit
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Ypsilanti, MI
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | U7 would need to be at least 5.5 in order for all the geometry features to work.
U35 being 4.2 is OK.
If your CLM has 4.2 for U35 and U7 not being 5.5, either U35 was changed out, or the entire Deflection processor board was changed out.
A deflection processor board with U7 showing 5.2, would not come out of an Ultra. |
Ultra DPBs have a flywire added across the rear, above the connector pins. An earlier DPB with 5.5 and the flywire should work.
. |
Picked up the other PJ today...too tired/hot/no one else home to help get it out of the car...but I did yank the control board
Looks like DPB U7 is v5.5 with a fly wire at the header...
Fingers Crossed - will "play" tomorrow and report back!
Lewis
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