CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[antorsae]

Just distilled water with a few drops of bleach. This setup will only last ~1 week or so... the point is to see if there is any added benefit image quality wise.

Would you think it will corrode the housings?

Does water expand with temperature? I though only gas expanded/contracted with temperatures (other than freezing/boiling)

[Tom.W]

Quote :

Density of water and ice
Density of liquid water Temp (°C) Density (kg/m3)[10][11]
+100 958.4
+80 971.8
+60 983.2
+40 992.2
+30 995.6502
+25 997.0479
+22 997.7735
+20 998.2071
+15 999.1026
+10 999.7026
+4 999.9720
0 999.8395
−10 998.117
−20 993.547
−30 983.854
The values below 0 °C refer to supercooled water.

The density of water is dependent on its temperature, but the relation is not linear and is not even monotonic (see right-hand table). When cooled from room temperature liquid water becomes increasingly dense, just like other substances. But at approximately 4 °C, water reaches its maximum density. As it is cooled further under ambient conditions, it expands to become less dense. This unusual negative thermal expansion is attributed to strong, orientation-dependent, intermolecular interactions and is also observed in molten silica.[12]

The solid form of most substances is denser than the liquid phase; thus, a block of the solid will sink in the liquid. But, by contrast, a block of common ice floats in liquid water because ice is less dense than liquid water. Upon freezing, the density of ice decreases by about 9%.[13] The reason for this is the 'cooling' of intermolecular vibrations allowing the molecules to form steady hydrogen bonds with their neighbors and thereby gradually locking into positions reminiscent of the hexagonal packing achieved upon freezing to ice Ih. While the hydrogen bonds are shorter in the crystal than in the liquid, this locking effect reduces the average coordination number of molecules as the liquid approaches nucleation. Other substances that expand on freezing are antimony, bismuth, gallium, germanium, silicon, acetic acid, and other compounds that form spacious crystal lattices with tetrahedral coordination.

Only ordinary, hexagonal ice is less dense than the liquid. Under increasing pressure ice undergoes a number of transitions to other allotropic forms with higher density than liquid water, such as high density amorphous ice (HDA) and very high density amorphous ice (VHDA).

Water also expands significantly as the temperature increases. Its density decreases by 4% from its highest value when approaching the boiling point.

The melting point of ice is 0 °C (32 °F, 273 K) at standard pressure, however, pure liquid water can be supercooled well below that temperature without freezing if the liquid is not mechanically disturbed. It can remain in a fluid state down to its homogeneous nucleation point of approximately 231 K (−42 °C) [14]. The melting point of ordinary hexagonal ice falls slightly under moderately high pressures, but as ice transforms into its allotropes (see crystalline states of ice) above 209.9 MPa (2,072 atm), the melting point increases markedly with pressure, i.e. reaching 355 K (82 °C) at 2.216 GPa (21,870 atm) (triple point of Ice VII[15]).

A significant increase of pressure is required to lower the melting point of ordinary ice —the pressure exerted by an ice skater on the ice would only reduce the melting point by approximately 0.09 °C (0.16 °F).[citation needed]

These properties of water have important consequences in its role in the ecosystem of Earth. Water of a temperature of 4 °C will always accumulate at the bottom of fresh water lakes, irrespective of the temperature in the atmosphere. Since water and ice are poor conductors of heat[16] (good insulators) it is unlikely that sufficiently deep lakes will freeze completely, unless stirred by strong currents that would mix cooler and warmer water and accelerate the cooling. In warming weather, chunks of ice float, rather than sink to the bottom where they might melt extremely slowly. These phenomena thus may preserve aquatic life.

[antorsae]

Thank you Tom - I didn't know.

[garyfritz]

Water expands as it freezes. That's why a bottle of water will shatter in the freezer. In the old days of home milk delivery in glass bottles with foil/paper caps, it was common for milk to freeze and expand out the neck of the bottle, pushing off the cap:


This is a fascinating property of water (and very few other substances -- the article above says molten silica does it too), and it's pretty critical to life on Earth. As the last paragraph says, the fact that freezing water expands means that ice floats. That caps and insulates lakes so the whole lake doesn't freeze. If water ice didn't expand, lakes would freeze from the bottom up and kill just about everything in it.

The point about the ice skater is interesting too. The pressure of the ice skater drops the melting point slightly. I believe that's a critical point in why skating works. The pressure melts the ice, which lubricates the ice so the skater can glide. (Though if it only reduces the melting point by 0.09°C, that wouldn't work unless the ice was near freezing temperature. Hm.)

[dvh99]

[mp20748]

This thread has me thinking...


http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/256249861/Ice_Clear_AF_Non_Glycol_Anti.html

[tse]

I wonder if contamination is organic. Don't forget that there are a fair amount of X-rays present when the tube is running. Of course that could be producing some super mutant microscopic creature.

Scott

[dvh99]

right, aliens 4 do not forget to wear sunglasses.

[incova]

Godzilla in my coolant? maybe we should stick with glycol?

[mp20748]

Godzilla or not, I will be playing around with trying other substances.

My goal is to find something that will possibly do what Glycol does, but will be more like water..

[Nashou66]

[Spanky Ham]

I doubt the temperatures that we are talking about are going to have an effect on water expansion.

My guess is that even if the bleach dissipates the initial introduction will kill anything in the chamber. I have seen water sit on store shelves for a long time without it turning brown or green.

[mp20748]

I'll be ordering some of this today, which of the two should I be getting. Both are CLEAR:


1) clear antifreeze without corrosion inhibitors
2) clear antifreeze with corrosion inhibitors

[antorsae]

Id guess WITH corrosion inhibitor...

[Nashou66]

[mp20748]

So should I be getting the one with the inhibitors?

I'll be getting samples...

[dvh99]

ask for the acidity of the liquid cause maybe you do not need with inhibitors.
the aluminium housing is anodized as you know.

[Nashou66]

[dvh99]

i know nashou but glycol is very corrosive and the liquid from the link is probably not as acid as glycol with the glycerine mix.
was the damaged faceplate filled with a mix of glycol and glycerine or just glycol?

[garyfritz]

That antifreeze is designed to be used in a car engine at very high temps. If it doesn't corrode the auto parts at high temps, I would think it would be pretty unlikely to corrode the LC chamber at a temp of, what, maybe 100-120F?