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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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yonexsp
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Some of those B-Stock prices were not to bad back then.
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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hey now, How can anyone complain when they see that? 
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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No one is saying CRT's were not worth what they were back then, or even today. An unaffordable projector today was just as unaffordable back then. I still cannot afford a fully setup Electrohome 9500LC Ultra nor a Sony G90 today. Just like in 1997. Fully setup means one with the ability to take signals from a variety of sources like a STB, BD, etc., which would require external processing to get the most out of it.
Mind you as Curt provided the example, which I thank you, the least expensive 9" for sale is more than I just paid for a B-stock DLA-RS20.
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Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:26 am Post subject: |
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I think there is a clear difference of perspective between those of us try to get ourselves, and our friends, top end CRTs as cheap as possible (free is best). And those trying to make a living out of what is a hobby for most of us.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:08 am Post subject: |
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Today, a new 9500LC is still something WELL over 20K from VDC. I think the actual price is subject to contract negotiations but it should always be well over 20K, particularly today with the lenses being made by a new source at a considerable per-unit in cost vs. USPL pricing.
It's still well worth it, when you consider manufacturing costs. Look at any CRT projector and figure out what it would cost to have any
part of it duplicated in smallish quantities and the actual value of the unit soon becomes quite clear.
Our projectors originally cost more than a lot of cars did. Their depreciation is generally comparable, too.
CJ
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Cine 9 is worth about $3k tops.
XG LG/G70 maybe $1k, if you can find a sucker.
And it's all downhill from there.
Have you seen what a $3k digital can do these days?
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | Today, a new 9500LC is still something WELL over 20K from VDC. I think the actual price is subject to contract negotiations but it should always be well over 20K, particularly today with the lenses being made by a new source at a considerable per-unit in cost vs. USPL pricing.
It's still well worth it, when you consider manufacturing costs. Look at any CRT projector and figure out what it would cost to have any
part of it duplicated in smallish quantities and the actual value of the unit soon becomes quite clear.
Our projectors originally cost more than a lot of cars did. Their depreciation is generally comparable, too.
CJ |
I believe most people know these cost a lot to manufacture. Whether they are worth it or not is a matter of debate?
The prices are interesting from a historical point of view. Judging by the prices, one of the best deals of all time was the AVS XG blowout. I think 135LCs were going for $7k in 2000. If I would have known then what I know now, then I would have been a happy XG owner for the past ten years.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I now have zero interest in CRT. I will service mine until the new set of tubes is done then it's done. It will be replaced by most likely a LED digital projector or giant LED flatscreen. No more dicking around with cables, adapters and wall warts.
No more tweaking or modding. Just turn it on and enjoy. Just the thought of gutting my rack of all that un-needed wire, replaced by a couple of HDMI cables, makes me feel warm and cozy all over 
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | I believe most people know these cost a lot to manufacture. Whether they are worth it or not is a matter of debate? |
Exactly. It would cost a fortune to manufacture an IBM 360 mainframe -- but nobody would buy one because you can buy a more capable laptop for $500.
Unless you're some kind of govt or military installation with a specific need for an IBM360, and a near-unlimited budget, you'd never buy one. The same is true for new-built CRTs, and I imagine they have the same customer base.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | I believe most people know these cost a lot to manufacture. Whether they are worth it or not is a matter of debate? |
Exactly. It would cost a fortune to manufacture an IBM 360 mainframe -- but nobody would buy one because you can buy a more capable laptop for $500.
Unless you're some kind of govt or military installation with a specific need for an IBM360, and a near-unlimited budget, you'd never buy one. The same is true for new-built CRTs, and I imagine they have the same customer base. |
That is an excellent comparison, as I couldn't come up with one.
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yonexsp
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | Cine 9 is worth about $3k tops.
XG LG/G70 maybe $1k, if you can find a sucker.
And it's all downhill from there.
Have you seen what a $3k digital can do these days? |
I have, and I bought one. Not even a fair fight these days I'm afraid. I'd love to see a cine9 to compare, but the prices for those are stupid
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | Cine 9 is worth about $3k tops.
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How did you arrive at this price?
Cine 9, which supposed to have a RED C element, should be in a price range somewhere between $6000.00 to $7000.00
A Barco 909 that does not have the RED C element should go for $6000 or more.
The only difference between the Cine 9 and Barco 909 other than the case would be the RED element. The mentioning of the Cine 9 being quieter because of it's modified fan circuit or different fans is not true. The Cine 9's schematic diagram deflects the exact same parts and circuitry that the Barco 909 has. So if there is a technical difference, It's not showing in the schematics or the projector itself.
I chat with Curt often on the Barco 909 dealing with its parts and performance issues. I would say if anyone on these forum would know the value and quality, it would be Curt and myself... not sure what Curt would rate a 909 or Cine 9 at, which I believe between the two of us would be able to set or determine what these projectors should be sold for. And so that you'll know, I don't sell 909's or Cine 9's, and it would not be to Curt's advantage to over rate the cost of one on the used market.
OTOH, it would also depend on where you purchased 909 or Cine 9. If Ebay or some other source that would not go over and make sure the unit is where it would need to make sure some of the kinks has been removed before sale, then $3000.00 just may be a good purchasing price.
But if I were going to purchase on of them at that low price, I would arrange with Curt to have some of the boards in it look at to make sure that it's ready for prime time.
Also, parts for these projectors are not so easy to come by, so that would be the only consideration in purchasing one of them. But from what I know first hand, that should be changing in the near future.
So a good performing Barco 909 or Cine 9 should be going for anywhere between $6000.00 to $6000.00 and even up to $7000.00 depending on its condition and if it has been gone over by someone who knows what to look for in making sure it'll be a dependable performer.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | So a good performing Barco 909 or Cine 9 should be going for anywhere between $6000.00 to $6000.00 and even up to $7000.00 depending on its condition and if it has been gone over by someone who knows what to look for in making sure it'll be a dependable performer. |
I would tend to agree with you, Mike. Unfortunately, just like the Ferrari that's not parked in my driveway, neither is a nice 9" CRT. I can't afford either. 
If I wanted to get my XG135LC going it would be too much to ask it to do 1080P on a regular basis. I can hang and square a CRT projector to a screen just fine, but beyond the completing the setup, performing the calibration, brow-beating the sources into a signal the XGLC can operating comfortably with (960P?), would cost me about as much as what I paid for the JVC B-stock.
Sure, I'd much rather have a G90, Marquee Ultra 9500L, or Cine 9, but like that red devil of car it just cannot be afforded. And believe me, I contemplated seriously on the matter. And yes, I do envy those that can afford the better things in life.
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Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think you made a wise move Wan. And I like the way you did it considering you're really upgrading from an XG to maybe something better (I'm not sure about this statement), but it's something that you find to be better or worth what you spent for your digital.
And I agree about cost, which is a serious issue for a lot of people these days.
Higher End CRT projectors are still very much High Performance video projectors. And though a many digital has come along ways in image quality, they still are not for everyone. Some things are still a preference.
I still have a tube preamp and power amp. The power amp is only 17.5 watts per channel and I've had it about 35 years. It's in my main system in the living room.
The HT system uses solid state stuff, where warmth and smoothness is not an issue.
I only wish i could get the tube sound in my vehicles. The last digital projector I've seen still has that plastic look that reminds me of a cheap CD player or stereo system.
I plan to look at some of the later models soon, but based on what some of my CRT HT customers has told me about them because they're always checking them out, they still are not ready to replace what they have. And these folk got the buck to upgrade.
I see CRT being around for awhile. It'll be a unique item for a while that will have a special group still in love with the technology, much like tube audio and LP's.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Mark_A_W wrote: | Cine 9 is worth about $3k tops.
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How did you arrive at this price?
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Because I saw the $3k Sony SXRD (LCOS). And I think it's better.
Or at least as good.
I would have to see them together to be really sure.
The Cine 9 will have better blacks. No doubt.
But the SXRD is better in every other way.
Comes out about even. Therefore, they have the same value.
Original cost is irrelevant - my Subaru was almost $40k eleven years ago when some sucker bought it new (I got it 2 years old for $30k). I'll let you have it for...hmmm...$16k? But market value is about $8k...
If the SXRD (or equivalent) was 3D there would be no contest - and that's coming.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | I think you made a wise move Wan. And I like the way you did it considering you're really upgrading from an XG to maybe something better (I'm not sure about this statement), but it's something that you find to be better or worth what you spent for your digital.
And I agree about cost, which is a serious issue for a lot of people these days.
Higher End CRT projectors are still very much High Performance video projectors. And though a many digital has come along ways in image quality, they still are not for everyone. Some things are still a preference.
I still have a tube preamp and power amp. The power amp is only 17.5 watts per channel and I've had it about 35 years. It's in my main system in the living room.
The HT system uses solid state stuff, where warmth and smoothness is not an issue.
I only wish i could get the tube sound in my vehicles. The last digital projector I've seen still has that plastic look that reminds me of a cheap CD player or stereo system.
I plan to look at some of the later models soon, but based on what some of my CRT HT customers has told me about them because they're always checking them out, they still are not ready to replace what they have. And these folk got the buck to upgrade.
I see CRT being around for awhile. It'll be a unique item for a while that will have a special group still in love with the technology, much like tube audio and LP's. |
Its interesting that the audio world never got past valves. Yes I know that most of the amps out there are solid sate but valves are still there because they offer qualities the newer technologies don't. Why would CRT be any different?? 
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JOneil
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: |
But the SXRD is better in every other way.
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Except for bulb life, and projector life. How many bulbs and digital projectors would you go through just to equal the life of 1 CRT projector? Add that cost up to see how it equals out. Being close to CRT in picture quality is just a slim part of the equation.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I have a valve amplifier - Single Ended Triode, using KT-88s or 6550s.
It sits on the shelf getting dusty while my pile of solid state gear gets a workout.
I think the valve amp thing is a bit of a wank.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | I have a valve amplifier - Single Ended Triode, using KT-88s or 6550s.
It sits on the shelf getting dusty while my pile of solid state gear gets a workout.
I think the valve amp thing is a bit of a wank. |
As you say these are your own thoughts not facts.
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