CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[tse]

Let's say that I have a projector with 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 native resolution. I can't get it close enough to the screen to get the whole image displayed. I want to scale down the video to something like 1460x820 so the whole image will fit on the screen while still having the input to the projector 1920x1080p @ 60Hz. I don't want to change the sync just make the image smaller. What would do something like that while not trashing small text from the unavoidable artifacts?

Thanks,

Scott

Edited because of misleading original question.

[dturco]

Captain Obvious here,

I gonna say you need a Lumagen. I bet that's not what your asking for though. Other than that I don't know.


EDIT: I was posting during your edit. So never mind.

[macgyver655]

Ok, you asking this is like a trick question. So more info required, like what type projector is it? You know your asking an internal scaler question, right?

[ecrabb]

Mac, I think Scott knows he needs a kind of scaler, but probably doesn't know what kind... The projector doesn't really have much to do with it I don't think.

Scott, I think I have an idea what you're getting at... You want to do sort of "picture-in-picture" type of scaling, but with only one source/destination. You want to take a 1920x1080 video input (for instance), feed a 1920x1080 projector at its native rate, but scale the source signal in such a way that you have a big, fat black border around the video... Sort of "zooming out" if you will... and do it all in the digital domain.

I don't know if any CE scalers can do that... Maybe somebody here has played with something like the Radiance to see what sort of sizing you can do. Failing one of the higher-end CE scalers, you might something like a commercial video graphics processor... Sort of like a video wall processor, but with only one output. Something like that would give you size, zoom, and translate functions, so you can make the source smaller, move it around, etc.

I don't know if it has enough range to do what you want, but look at something like an Extron USP507:
http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=usp507

If there isn't somebody here that has a brand/model info that might suit your reqirement, I bet if you called a local commercial AV integrator, they could find something for you in pretty short order. Probably won't be cheap, though. No matter how good the scaling is, you probably won't keep nice sharp image for small text... Even with good filtering and resampling, you just can't make small scaling changes like that without losing some sharpness.

SC

[macgyver655]

Well if the input resolution is to big for the screen then why not decrease the vert and horz size? As I said. Not enough info here.

[ecrabb]

If I understand him correctly, it isn't that the input resolution is too big for the screen (after all, the projected image size is really a function of the imager size and lens, and assuming internal scaling to use the entire imager, is independent of the input resolution)... So, I'm guessing he's talking about a digital with no super-cool Vsize and Hsize like we got with our 'ol CRTs.

So, think of the scenario like this, because I think this is what Scott is getting at... Say you set up a digital projector with a specific lens at one specific required point in a room. The picture is 20% too large for the screen. What do you do?

SC

[macgyver655]

[macgyver655]

Oh, and if it is digital and this one didn't have a vert and horz size adjustment then I believe all external scalers do have vert and horz size adjustments.

[tse]

This isn't a trick question. It is a digital projector and it does have a scaler of sorts but it is just a brute force scaler so artifacts galore. That's the main problem. There is no lens that will do what I need and no option on locating the projector where it needs to be. I'm hoping there is a scaler with some means of reducing the artifacts on small text. Not tiny text but small. I'm not very familiar with video processors that are loose in the world. These digital projectors make things hard when alot of projector users are used to size, pin, key adjustments. Thanks for any help.

Scott

[macgyver655]

So would a size adjustment in a scaler achieve what your looking for?

Trying to get rid of artifacts on a digital...... thats funny Scott.

Is this a DLP device? Nothing in the service menu?

[macgyver655]

Well if its not a trick question then lets try this.

If altering the source material is not an option, and you want 1080p input to the projector but be able to reduce the size of the projected image then the size(or zoom if available) adjustments in the scaler is the only option I can think of. I believe its just changing the timings.

Changing anything else would change the resolution to the projector.

As far as the artifacts, if they are not in the source material then they are being produced in the projector and the scaler cant do anything about that. Especially if you want to retain that 1080p resolution.

[zaphod]

hmmm, my extron allows you to adjust the size of the image within the signal. i've used it to get rid of combination pillarbox and letterbox on and image.

[Spanky Ham]

What is your budget? A Teranex might be able to do what you are talking about. I am not sure if any of the consumer scalers can do it without artifacts.

[dturco]

O.K. so I wasn't wrong my Lumagen Vision HDP PRO will shrink an image using the size controls or just by using active area scanning on the output.

Input is 1080p24 [when updated properly] and the output is whatever you want pixel wise 960x1440 817x1920 786x1658,it doesn't care you just type in on the screen and it sends it out scaled to that exact frame.

Nashou or Craig Rounds can explain it better, but that's the gist of it.

[macgyver655]

[dturco]

I've been wrong before. I really don't know how the Lumagen's scaler works, but it does have a large range in the size feature. So maybe someone with more knowledge then me will hop in.

[ecrabb]

[tse]

It's the "size" feature that I am after. The sync going into the projector needs to be 1080p @ 60 Hz but the image has to be about 76% of the nominal image. So the 1920x1080 image will occupy 1460x820 area of the DLP device. There will be a black border around the scaled down, smaller sized image. The scaler in the projector can do that but it has no grace. Smaller text shows artifacts. I'm looking for a device that will minimize the artifacts while reducing the size of the image. Some video processors/scalers have dedicated sections that do that, no?

Scott

[Nashou66]

Just came into this thread, Scott send me an E-mail. TV-One has lots of scalers with zoom and shrink functions and on the C2-2250's they others that will do the same .They also have pixel per pixel percentage scaling. I can get you a really good price off retail. let me know.

Any of the C2 or 1T-C2 scalers will do it. the cheapest is the 1T-C2-750

ftp://ftp.tvoneftp.com/SpecSheets/SpecSheet-1T-C2-750-ver1.pdf

it also depends on how many inputs you need. These also have picture overlay. And you can add more scalers in a daisy chain to make them a multi window
display.

Athanasios

[macgyver655]