CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[JustGreg]

Will it never end!?

Does anybody have a link to, or can answer what the C light on the CLM means? I'm thinking it has something to do with the DPB but that's just a guess based on an very old memory. I Googled my a$$ off and searched here but found nothing specific.

Quit reading and reply now or see what I'd previously done to get to this 'point':

Performed a full initialization again just to make sure. Checked that everything was nulled, got the lenses off, marked the centers, and didn't feel like going further at the moment so installed the second sub at the back of the HT.

An hour later (pj on but no source), I fired up the PS3, and decided to go to the internal pattern to adjust the pins. I pulled up the menu, selected side pin, got the slider menu, pressed the left button one time and... out went the lights. WTF now!!??

I turned off the PS3, power cycled the pj in case it got 'confused' and still nothing. While pressing the power button on both the wired and wireless remotes the CLM C light flickers but the pj powers up. No HV crackle but that's not uncommon seeing as the pj has been running for a while.

Thanks again guys. I'll keep looking while waiting for a reply.

[cmjohnson]

Hit the reset button on the CLM. Try again.


CJ

[Nashou66]

The C is Control which lights up each time a control message is sent from the remotes or the RS232 computer control program.

If you were doing a pin look at the VDM. most geometry wave forms are on that board and the CLM. However Pin and skew and Key go from the VDM to the HDM then to the coils. Start looking for a burnt resistor. Hopefully none of the mosfets shorted to the heat sync trough the insulation( not insulting )


Oh and double check your HDM seating again will ya. you keep having trouble with that.


Nashou

[JustGreg]

I figured out the C is for 'Communication'. Duh!

Thanks yet again guys. *sigh*

I just reseated the HDM and FCM and checked all the connections again. I also just unplugged the %$#&@!! wired remote. I don't even use the damn thing but all it does is fall down to the end of it's cord all the time.

I had the SAB out yesterday but didn't touch the VDM. I'll check it anyway. I tried another older model CLM...that wasn't it obviously. I dont' own a spare VIM or any of the back panel boards so if it's one of those the party's over before it's begun.
Hell, apparently I have time to check this stuff for the UMPTEENTH TIME IN 2 DAYS!!

No pops...no magic smoke, no error lights. Here we go again. Time to go back to the UMB connector too!

Thanks CJ...I"m down with that as the first thing I do.

[JustGreg]

OK...update. Just before I broke for dinner I decided to shoot from the hip and see what would happen if I went into convergence and attempted to adjust pin. I missed my mark and selected keystone but the results were what I was hoping for. There was a minor sput from the open back panel (I think the sound came from there) and HV engaged at the same time. Image on all three tubes with no distortion was the result.

I was in the wrong place to determine visually or audibly where the sound came from. I could have been hearing it from anywhere from the convergence amp to a convergence coil.
I reflowed every solder joint on that board recently and consider myself competent at the soldering station, but it's worth checking my work again. Sending an adjust signal to the board is definately responsible for triggering a Good To Go state.

Unless somebody suggests specific component tests while the board is in I'm going to bench it and take a closer look at it.

[Nashou66]

Greg U8 is the dac for pin, key and skew on the VDM. U701 is the op amp. look at the resistor at the output pins of the op amp and then look at any caps for its power rails etc.

Now remember what you did on the HDM recently? well the width sense circuit ties into the KEy and pin tracking circuit and the Modulator circuit on the HDM. look at those components. there is lots of interaction here this could be tough to find without and extender board and being ceiling mounted... tough. You need a second PJ for a test bed on the floor buddy

Athanasios

[JustGreg]

Well, if I wanted easy I'd own a digital right? <nah nah...I already have my flame suit on>

Yeah ceiling mounted is a little tougher but the tail endo of the pj hangs out over the front edge of my riser so I can stand to check the rear panel boards. I have the panel held up with a spring anchored on the other end to a ceiling joist. Works well.

I'm thinking there's a problem with one of the new caps on the VDM or CAB. I didn't do a helluva lot to the HDM yet so that's still a suspect also.

Back to the drawing board. That's OK...I'm learning a lot. I'd rather be WATCHING the sucker but that will happen. I'd rather get it all hammered out now. (Hammering is still an option too!!!)

Test bed. Yeah right. I better be able to sleep in that bed because if I buy another pj the wife won't let me in hers!

Thanks yet again Nash.

BTW...do you have any idea the sheer number of your posts from around the world come up when Googling?

[JustGreg]

Yeah in the Service Procedure PDF, page 4-45:

"Most geometry wave forms are produced on the VDM and selected and controlled by the CLM."
"...KEY-PIN and SKEW are used by other modules. KEY-PIN goes to the HDM, while SKEW goes to the CVA. The modules must therefore be evaluated when dealing with keystone, side pincushion and skew problems."

That has my name all over it.

[JustGreg]

That's it for the day. I'm tossing in the towel until tomorrow...or Monday, or..... Another lengthy one but I need to understand what this thing is doing. Sorry but it is why many of us are here.

So here's where I left off. I could use some input while I come up to speed with the Service Manual. Scott? Nash? drag? Anyone?

*This is with SAB and CVA cables and braided grounds to the rear panel disconnected *

a) When side pin is adjusted below 23 the top of the internal grid pattern starts to lose brightness on the first line. If I adjust down one more click, half the pattern disappears...for a second, then all 3 tubes go out. I assume this is where HV drops out. If I increase the pin (blindly) one or two clicks the image comes back smaller and dimmer but fairly quickly swells to normal size and brightness.

b) Top and bottom Pincushion - I didn't push the numbers to see what would happen. I only adjusted enough to correct pin geometry.

Note: R&G bottoms are OK at 33 but B is indented. I have to run the adjustment to almost zero to correct geometry but then the R&G are out of whack.

c) Top pin is at 80 for all three tubes to have correct pincushion
d) If I leave the Geometry menu up (while taking notes) it switches to the Convergence menu without me doing it.
e) I powered the pj off, unplugged it, waited for the LVPS to shut off, grabbed the red SAB cable and a little jolt and snap got me from the end of the plug. WTF? Is this normal? Keep in mind the braided grounds were off the rear heatsink as I had it open.
f) Connecting the SAB had no effect on the blue pin shape (as expected)
g) Shut it all down again, waited for the LVPS, this time I grabbed the green FCM cable with shielded needle nose and held the open end to the edge of the HDM card cage...no snap but a little blue spark when it was about .030 away from it. Still the WTF factor.
h) Connecting the FCM had no effect on the pin either. Also as expected.

Nash I know you gave me some things to work on and I'll get to those tomorrow.
I need a spare set of boards for the heatsink. Now isn't a good time for that so I work with what I have.

[Nashou66]

The sparking sounds like normal static discharge. Maybe the aquadag connectors from the tube bell to the ground points are not making good contact with the tube?

The PJ doing its poltergeist thing i never seen before. but it could be a corrupt software program on the CLM. I think you said you tried a Initialization right?

Hmm, well try again, if it still does it then try un soldering the battery and let it sit for a day. Not sure if that will do anything but it might. also leave the PJ unplugged for a day or two. The caps can hold a charge for a long time so if any other memory chips anywhere else on the set like the back plane are messed up this might help clear them out, now this is just theory it might not do a damn thing, but this will give you time away from the PJ and a little more time with the misses

Then go back to it monday and try it all over again with a initialization at first. and fresh batteries in the remote, using it a lot can drain that thing fast.

Nashou

[tse]

If, while adjusting h size, side pin, or key, the HV drops out stop the adjustment and back up a few "clicks" and see if the HV comes back. There is circuitry on the HDM that will shut down the sweep if the current goes too high. This will mostly happen when the H. size is at a high value.

The convergence, focus, stig windings will pick up a static charge if not connected when the HV goes up or down. Don't let them discharge on a circuit bd. I ground the coils when not connected to keep the sparks down.

Scott

[Nashou66]

[tse]

Yep, increasing R156 in value will give more width, key, and pin capability from the control circuits. That doesn't mean that the output circuits are going to go along with the program. They are still going to shutdown at the same point as they did with the original R156 if you can get that far.

Scott

[dvh99]

my h-size is at 100.
is it recommended to run at a somewhat lower setting.

[Nashou66]

I see what you mean Scott, the problem will still happen with the lower value exactly the same as with the new value. Its the H size combined with the key,pin etc that all play into how much current is being drawn by the circuit. if the combined use of all those together goes over the specified current the HV will shut down. Correct?

So what is the max current allowed from that circuit?

Athanasios

[JustGreg]

Thanks for continuing on with this while I was away guys!

I pulled the heatsink boards again. I found something I saw before but forgot to correct. (Sucks getting old!) The previous owner did the anamorphic resistor change and did a HORRIBLE job of soldering and cut the leads down to ~3/16", so I just now cut them back. I don't know if that means any one of the leads could have been hitting the heatsink as there isn't a whole helluva lot of space there but we'll see.

As for R156...I thought of that last night before bed. I'm going to replace it with the original 14K3 and test again.

If I can't get the H size I need that way do I have any other options such as additonal mods to the circuit or would I be better off just running it close to or at 100 with the original resistor?

Off to the dungeon.

[Nashou66]

Try a resistor in between the 14k3 and the 16k1 like maybe 15k. it might give you the right amopunt of H size and Pin you need. but first try the original and see if that cuts out HV, if not then go up to the 15k-15k5.

nashou

[JustGreg]

[JustGreg]

[JustGreg]

Before I head back down, there's another question from my ramblings I'd like to pick a brain about...

With all pincushion acceptable for the G&R the blue tube exhibits a bottom inward dip. Any idea why this particular tube is being rebellious? I didn't load the magnetics on it...just the 2/4/6 pole CPC. (which was visually nulled before installing). I'll try and snag a pic...Clarence I'm not but I'll try!
Note: Rasters aren't leveled or centered yet. I only max'd them so far while I look into the blue tubes shenanigans