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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: |
Ok Gotcha, its the wording in these manuals and no manufacturer uses the terms. The manual says digital out put then says DVI-D. I thought DVI-D was the digital YcBcR. But there is not only a Analog RGB there is a digital RGB as well.
and this is what I have to set my Tv-One to. I think its finally sinking in. 
Well tomorrow i should have the radiance's here and i'll be able to finally see if my Tv-Ones have a colorspace conversion issue We talked about. Now i'll be able to go 422 right to the Moome Vim-HD card.
Once Again Craig your knowledge of all things video never stops to amaze me and it is really appreciated.
Athanasios |
Also, Lumagen's terminology is always correct. Whenever you see DVI-D you can assume in 99.99% of cases that it is RGB because DVI spec only includes RGB. HDMI does not include any analog specs, but it does include digital RGB, YCbCr 422 and 444.
It is possible to have a DVI device support YCbCr, but they are rare. Furthermore, DVI does not include the "info frame" which with HDMI instructs the display what color space to use. In the absence of the "info frame", the display will always default to RGB because the display assumes that you are sending DVI (which must be RGB).
The only devices I am aware of that support DVI YCbCr are the Lumagen Vision processors, The Accupel HDG-4000, and some HTPC video cards (there are probably some others). Since these devices use DVI chips, these devices can not send the info frame. Thus you must manually select the correct color space when using YCbCr; hence the input settings on the input of the Vision processors.
craigr |
Interesting. This must be why my Moome card does not see the info frame from my Tv-One if i try to send it the YUV(YCbCr) from the Tv-One. On my Tv-One the engineers did tell me I can select it to accept YCbCr from a BD player or VP and output that as well. But since my current Vision HDQ does not output YCbCR I can not do it. and even with the new radiance's coming i probably will not be able to get my Moome card to show the YCbCr since the Tv-One unit will not send the Info Frame. And this is why you asked moome to be able to add a way to force the Moome card to manually accept it.
So having said all that and if I have most of it correct, when i get the new Radiances and I still can not get the proper input for 422 to my Moome card is there a way I can get the Moome card modified to do so? and are you able to do that for me or would I need to send it back to moome?
Athanasios
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: |
Interesting. This must be why my Moome card does not see the info frame from my Tv-One if i try to send it the YUV(YCbCr) from the Tv-One. On my Tv-One the engineers did tell me I can select it to accept YCbCr from a BD player or VP and output that as well. But since my current Vision HDQ does not output YCbCR I can not do it. and even with the new radiance's coming i probably will not be able to get my Moome card to show the YCbCr since the Tv-One unit will not send the Info Frame. And this is why you asked moome to be able to add a way to force the Moome card to manually accept it.
So having said all that and if I have most of it correct, when i get the new Radiances and I still can not get the proper input for 422 to my Moome card is there a way I can get the Moome card modified to do so? and are you able to do that for me or would I need to send it back to moome?
Athanasios |
If your Tv-One has a physical DVI connector than it does not send an info frame. Only HDMI devices can provide the info frame data to the projector. So if you are able to force the TV-One to output YCbCr, than you must be able to manually select the correct color space (force it) at the projector (Moome), or you will have an all green or all purple mess on the screen.
So as you have surmised, this is one of the reasons I asked Moome to allow manual color space selection on his cards. With the newest Moome firmware you will be able to select YCbCr 422 on the Moome so that it matches the output from the TV-One. There are other reasons I asked for this feature as well including the fact that the info frame is sometimes lost (even with HDMI) and the wrong color space can be selected by the projector (Moome)
...and I guess we can add the TV-One to the list of DVI devices that supports component color.
I can modify your boards here Tom. Or you could ask Moome for the new FW chips and do it yourself. It is a large SM IC though with very many small pins. I know you do some surface mount soldering, but this is very difficult compared to some jobs.
craigr
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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