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Electronic Masking: DIY and very easy :)
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject:

DB Cooper wrote:
I have used the upolstery grade velvet from Syfabrics for screen frames. Very heavy stuff, 100% cotton, and very black. They don't often have it, and is up there in price. I'll have to check out the JoAnnes stuff!

To cut the velvet best you should get fabric scissors, they cut little triangles to the edges so it doesn't fray.

Good tip... I wish I had known about that when I built the mask!

craigr

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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:

Thanks again for this thread, Craig. It's looking pretty likely I may be moving out of state this summer and therefore losing my theater. Sad

I won't likely have any time to build a whiz-bang dedicated room in the new place, and instead will be throwing together something pretty temporary in nature... Paint, carpet, lighting, and on-wall acoustic treatments will probably be the most of it. What little time I do have to spend on it, I'll spend on tweaks like this masking instead of heavy work like double-drywall, building racks, and that sort of thing. So, this is one of those things I'm really looking forward to.

Thanks!

SC


That's sad, but I have been there myself before. Have fun with what you can.

craigr

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JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1276
Location: Calgary

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject:

Hi Craig,

You're right, thanks. Working and reading on a Monday morning(at work) not a good combination, damn work always get in the way of play. Now if I can adapt some form of this setup into my existing frame/screen this will be the cat's a$$, thanks. That is assuming they will ship to Canada, I never checked.

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Walter
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject:

WTS wrote:
Hi Craig,

You're right, thanks. Working and reading on a Monday morning(at work) not a good combination, damn work always get in the way of play. Now if I can adapt some form of this setup into my existing frame/screen this will be the cat's a$$, thanks. That is assuming they will ship to Canada, I never checked.

Even if avoutlet doesn't ship to Canada you should be able to find the parts from a Canadian vendor. Also, the roller tubes may be good to order from a dealer rather than trying to use whatever you can locally. I first used steel tubes until it was discovered that the steel was making the moter not remember its stop positions (ferrious metal is a no go). I wound up ordering an aluminum tube from avoutlet and I wish that I had just done that right off.

If your screen is more than 96" wide you should probably go with the larger diameter tubes and hardware. Actually, if I had it to do over, I would have used the larger diameter stuff even with 96" width. At my screen width, the tubes do bend a little so making the fabric look flush without wrinkles was difficult (but doable). With larger diameter tubes that would not have been an issue.

Good luck!
craigr

_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:


Thanks again for this thread, Craig. It's looking pretty likely I may be moving out of state this summer and therefore losing my theater. Sad

I won't likely have any time to build a whiz-bang dedicated room in the new place, and instead will be throwing together something pretty temporary in nature... Paint, carpet, lighting, and on-wall acoustic treatments will probably be the most of it. What little time I do have to spend on it, I'll spend on tweaks like this masking instead of heavy work like double-drywall, building racks, and that sort of thing. So, this is one of those things I'm really looking forward to.

Thanks!

SC


Moving to Detroit?Smile
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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1276
Location: Calgary

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject:

Hi Craig,

I'll se if there is a Canadian dealer first. My screen is only 7' wide so it should be okay with the 1.25" alum tubes. Thanks.

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Walter
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject:

Spanky Ham wrote:
Moving to Detroit?Smile

Kinda looking that way... I'm looking at houses there. But, I'd rather not talk about it... Confused

Back to masking... Smile

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject:

Wow, I was joking. I guess Irule is doing well.
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paw



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject:

DB Cooper wrote:
I have used the upolstery grade velvet from Syfabrics for screen frames. Very heavy stuff, 100% cotton, and very black. They don't often have it, and is up there in price. I'll have to check out the JoAnnes stuff!

To cut the velvet best you should get fabric scissors, they cut little triangles to the edges so it doesn't fray.


Those are called pinking shears

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinking_shears

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Aubrey
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DB Cooper



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Ambler, Lancaster PA

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, thats them Cool ! forgot what they were called Thumbs Up !
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Been four years since the last post so I thought I would give it a bump so new folks and those who haven't been around for a while can see.

The masking system still works perfectly. It makes a bit of a metal on metal sound when operating now so I think one of my felt pads may have worn through. One of these days I will fix it, but it hasn't become bothersome enough to motivate me yet.

Happy building!

craigr

_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject:

Wow, so much has changed since you posted this and I wrote my posts.

Have you thought about a way to add vertical masking? The reason I ask is I'm thinking about a giant (like 12-feet wide) 16:9 screen in my next room... I'd run it full-width for scope (but masked) most of the time. I'd run it masked on all four sides for HDTV and comedies and such, and then open it all the way up for IMAX-type films and dual-AR movies. But, I'd need four-way masking to do it right. I'm thinking just another roller across the top, directly in front of the horizontal masking roller, with two side panels that roll down. No biggie.

The thing that has me concerned is they'll probably be sitting *right* in front of the speakers, so I need a material that would be pretty audio-transparent, or I'd mess up the audio for probably about a third of what I watch. That means it would need to be something like speaker grille material... But, that material is super-springy, won't lay flat, and probably won't absorb light very well, either. Any ideas?

Thanks, Craig!

Cheers,
SC
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject:

That's a tough one Steve... The speakers make it really difficult.

Do you have the system built enough to post photos?

craigr

_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject:

Nope, it's all drawings right now. Trying to get everything thought out, and of course I don't want to paint myself into some corner that I'll be unhappy with later.

Anyway, 15'6" wide room, 11-12-foot wide screen, and probably a 10-foot viewing distance (or thereabouts) to the main position. That puts the main speakers right out at the edges of the screen. They're going to be pretty large mains, so moving them outside the boundary of the screen means they're too far out, too close the walls, or the screen has to get a lot smaller.

Just thinking out loud at this point.

SC
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:19 pm    Post subject:

The only thing that pops into my head is an acoustically transparent screen and then putting the speakers closer together behind it.

You must be jonesing after not having a theater setup for so long!

craigr

_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:26 pm    Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:
I'd run it masked on all four sides for HDTV and comedies and such, and then open it all the way up for IMAX-type films and dual-AR movies. But, I'd need four-way masking to do it right. I'm thinking just another roller across the top, directly in front of the horizontal masking roller, with two side panels that roll down. No biggie.

Two things...

Firstly, I think your idea of having essentially two separate horizontal masks is a good one. But it sounds like you are thinking of three rollers? I would recommend using four rollers in total. Two for the horizontal mask as I built it, and then the other two for the horizontal mask with a 16x9 hole cut out of it ie. the vertical mask that rolls over the horizontal mask being made of two strips of fabric. You really need that bottom roller to keep the fabric of the mask taught.

Second, with IMAX and multiple aspect ratio movies you will need the 16x9 screen aspect ratio not 2.35. The IMAX aspect is slightly narrower than 16x9 so you need that. Than you need the 16x9 aspect, then the 2.35. The only way they all fit is inside a 16x9 screen... unless you want your lens shift or anamorphic lens to constantly be changing while you watch your movie Laughing

craigr

_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:18 pm    Post subject:

CIR Engineering wrote:
The only thing that pops into my head is an acoustically transparent screen and then putting the speakers closer together behind it.

Yeah, but I don't want to compromise the soundstage that much. I love music and concerts almost as much as movies and want this room to be really awesome in that regard, so speaker position is important. But, yeah - it's a conundrum.

CIR Engineering wrote:
You must be jonesing after not having a theater setup for so long!

You have no idea. Then, I went and blew a big chunk of theater budget last summer on an old BMW convertible for summer fun, so now I'm trying to build the bank account back up. Not sure how far off I am. I'll probably start doing the cheap bits and pieces this summer/fall, like framing and electrical, then once the bank account is at full-strength, hire the trades to do the big/expensive stuff like drywall finish, trim and flooring, and then buy furniture and gear at the end. At least that's what I'm thinking. This week. Wink

SC
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject:

CIR Engineering wrote:
Firstly, I think your idea of having essentially two separate horizontal masks is a good one. But it sounds like you are thinking of three rollers? I would recommend using four rollers in total. Two for the horizontal mask as I built it, and then the other two for the horizontal mask with a 16x9 hole cut out of it ie. the vertical mask that rolls over the horizontal mask being made of two strips of fabric. You really need that bottom roller to keep the fabric of the mask taught.

I think the way Stewart does it with the two side curtains is to sew a weight into the bottom of the fabric to keep it taught. Seems like it would work, but it depends on how much body the material has I suppose.

CIR Engineering wrote:
Second, with IMAX and multiple aspect ratio movies you will need the 16x9 screen aspect ratio not 2.35. The IMAX aspect is slightly narrower than 16x9 so you need that. Than you need the 16x9 aspect, then the 2.35. The only way they all fit is inside a 16x9 screen... unless you want your lens shift or anamorphic lens to constantly be changing while you watch your movie Laughing

Yeah, the wide-open giant 16:9 screen would be for the dual-AR movies like Dark Knight or Tron Legacy. The masking like yours would be for scope movies, I'd add the side-masks for TV, documentary, and comedy-type films. For IMAX, I'd just run it wide open. I know the old IMAX screens were 4:3, but the new IMAX "digital" presentations are almost 16:9. even if I was running an old IMAX film, I'd probably let it bleed a little at the top/bottom to have a little wider presentation.

Cheers!

SC
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:09 am    Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:
I think the way Stewart does it with the two side curtains is to sew a weight into the bottom of the fabric to keep it taught. Seems like it would work, but it depends on how much body the material has I suppose.

Yeah, I bet the weights would work pretty well when I think about it. It's not like you are pulling a mask up from the bottom. You are probably onto something.

ecrabb wrote:
Yeah, the wide-open giant 16:9 screen would be for the dual-AR movies like Dark Knight or Tron Legacy. The masking like yours would be for scope movies, I'd add the side-masks for TV, documentary, and comedy-type films. For IMAX, I'd just run it wide open. I know the old IMAX screens were 4:3, but the new IMAX "digital" presentations are almost 16:9. even if I was running an old IMAX film, I'd probably let it bleed a little at the top/bottom to have a little wider presentation.

I was thinking IMAX is mostly 1.66 when using their entire screen, slightly narrower than 1.78. I guess I also missed that you were talking about a LARGE 1.78 screen with masking on the top and bottom for 2.35... I wasn't thinking I guess Embarassed

craigr

_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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