CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

Just when everything seemed to be going so good. Crying or Very sad

PJ had been doing tube conditioning cycle for over 60 hours then the PJ shut off and is error coding. Not exactly sure when the PJ broke but it failed some time between 60 and 72 hours. Here is the error codes...

Fb - Input error for the number of V lines (SYSTEM PWB error)

FC - +15V source OFF

When I switch the PJ off till the LED display goes out, then switch back on again, everything seems OK. Push power button, fans start for about 1 second then PJ relays off, then about 7 seconds later a relay click and error codes display and projector continues to loop through this cycle every 30 second or so. Any ideas.

Ray.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject:

Ignoring the Fb error (could be random, or triggered by the Fc), it could be:

-focus board
-convergence board
-HDM
-HV PC board
-power supply.

you need to swap boards or send me the above for testing in a set here.

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject:

What "Tube Conditioning Cycle"?

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

Mark_A_W · Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:00 am Post subject:

Well, having read through that, I'd suspect a broken tube neck due to running the raster too wide - just like the guide says.

You can't "spill the raster over the tube edge" very far at all on a G70 or NEC, due to the geometry of the tube neck.

At best you have an issue due to wide defection.

IMO this guide is extremely dangerous. I nearly had kittens when I read it.

I thought you had a new Panasonic tube? They don't need conditioning.

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

Curt, so you need me to send you...

Power Supply
Focus Board
Convergence Board
Horizontal Deflection Board
HV Board

Your experience says it's one of these?

What's a replacement cost for each of these parts?

I will remove them Package them and ship via Greyhound ASAP.

Guess the fans used in the mod didn't have the poop to get the heat out. Live and learn Rolling Eyes

One thing is for sure I won't be firing this puppy up again till I have all the safeguards in place. For testing purposes though do you think I'd be safe to fire it up with the fan mods and the covers off. Guess it doesn't matter anyway as the PC will preform an ESD of the PJ if the temp exceeds safe limits anyway.

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

Mark_A_W · Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:35 am Post subject:

"And why would this procedure be posted if doing it runs the risk of damaging a new/rebuilt tube?"

Because Kal was only thinking Barcos when he posted it. As written, for an NEC it's a death sentence.

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

Again Mark, will I be able to see the break in the neck? I gave my Def Coil and Focus coil a light twist to check for movement and there is none. If this procedure could damage a tube maybe it should be preceded by a disclaimer of what tubes not to use it on.

Mark_A_W · Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:47 am Post subject:

Yes, you would notice a broken neck. Wiggle the neckboards gently. You'll know if a neck is broken (and that usually kills the deflection coil - the broken glass cuts it).

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

Fnck!!!!!!! Green tube face is broken. I figured I'd shine my flashlight through the lens and a massive crack across the face I'm pissed! This was a 800 freaking dollar tube plus shipping!!!! I think someone should fix that tube conditioning article to warn of this. I'm out brand new tube now. WTF!!!!! You were right Mark, only it wasn't the neck at all. I'm even out glycol as it got sucked into the tube from the vacuum.

Here's an image.

Curt. No offence, I'm sure your intentions were good but that article is simply a way to destroy a tube. I trusted that it said it wouldn't damage my tube as it wouldn't be driving it hard. I'm not a technician but I can muddle my way through things. I made it to the end of the tunnel. Having read many posts about VDC and that people had received tubes that were supposed to be new and were in all actuality rebuilds I thought I'd just be on the safe side and condition the tube. I mean hey, what's a hundred hours of wear on a tube that should have lasted 10000 hours had it indeed been new. I'm sorry but I have to say that no disclaimer about NEC's and G70's in that article is quite irresponsible. All I was trying to do was get the most possible life from my tube. Not shorten it to less than 72 hours. I'm having trouble understanding how with the amount of cumulative knowledge is on this board, how this simple thing could go unnoticed. Did I say how pissed I am?!?! It took me 2 years to build up the guts to do this, and I even succeeded. If that article had a disclaimer IO never would have prefomed this procedure and would have been watching a movie with my children right now instead of typing this rant. I even stated quite clearly in this thread...
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=21500.html
that I was going to do this and nobody warned me.

Mark, thanks for pointing me to the tube. Looks like I took a bunch of boards out of my PJ for no reason. Oh well at least I can be thankful for something and no glycol has leaked anywhere, and that I checked the tube a little further before shipping out my boards to be tested (which would have been more wasted money (Good thing it grows on trees though). BTW I probably won't be returning as when my wife gets wind of the fact that I just threw what comes out to about $900 out the window, I'll probably be pushing up daisies by this time tomorrow. Can I expect further damage to my PJ's systems due to this? I'm expecting the answer will be yes but I've got my fingers crossed. I have to tell you all, with all the stuff I went through just to achieve this result, I could just about shed tears.

Dumbass.

Mark_A_W · Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:01 am Post subject:

CRAP. I didn't want to be right.

That's the second time a NEC has done that running conditioning or wear-reduction cycles.

I'm really sorry to see that.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:15 am Post subject:

Ohhh dam, sorry to see that man! My condolences.

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

Post deleted.

(by Curt)

Chuchuf · Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 548

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject:

OK, as promised, I talked to Charlie. According to him, he thinks there is no danger of tube implosion when doing tube conditioning the way it's outlined on the main site. Now, I note that he didn't say NO danger, he said that he didn't THINK there was any danger. I told him about this scenario, and he did also repeat that NEW tubes do not need conditioning. He also says that he hasn't sold any NEC/Sony rebuilt tubes in about 5 years or so.

As has been said elsewhere, VDC is not in the business to rip off people, so if they sold you a new tube, then it was indeed a new tube.

Charlie and I discussed tube cracking in general, and we both agreed that there are many scenarios where tubes will crack, such as HV spikes, deflection failure, etc. He also said that Philips had an issue with a consumer RP set years ago that had random HV spikes under certain conditions, and lots of tubes cracked, leading to manufacturers putting the series resistors with the HV leads, preventing excessive HV current from reaching the tubes (thus the series resistors in the MArquee and other HV splitters)

So, at this point I'm not changing the text on the main site.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Curt, Id still have Ironman send you the boards just incase it was a deflection failure.

No need to say it was one thing that caused the failure of the tube till you have all the evidence you can get.

Athanasios

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject:

Might be a good idea Ironman...

mp20748 · Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject:

Ironman1965 · Joined: 28 Jun 2007 Posts: 98

I am planning on sending you the boards. I'll be packing them up tonight. Could you post your shipping address. I should get them on Greyhound tomorrow.

Ray