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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Just curious. If you turn up G2 enough to see the raster, how much of it is covered by the picture?
Scott
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | Just curious. If you turn up G2 enough to see the raster, how much of it is covered by the picture?
Scott |
The actual picture overshoots the raster a bit. I'm in short retrace.
I may need to find a mid point with the changes, if it's causing the slight overshoot. I prefer where it is, because it's less ringing on the left side.
The HDM I've been using has way more ringing than any I've had before.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | Mike, your green looks stellar. Nice sharp focus!  |
Since having things at 1080p 72HZ, we've been able to look at the focus on another level. Which also meant I could look into further tightening the focus. And when you can do your finals at 1080P 72hz, things are much better. It's just that to tightly dial things in at 72hz require a little more work than at 60hz. The difference allows me to get full smpte resolution on all 5 pattern groups, meaning I have perfect pixel patterns in the corners.
the problem is, I don't have a set of lenses that handles what I'm seeing in the tube.
I have and have tried, HD10L, GT17's and I removed one of the HD10F from the Sony G90 and it gave the exact same performance as the GT17.
I'm really amazed at how well my setup is resolving 1080P 72hz even with the stock LCP tubes. Now if I can only get my hands on a set of HFQ900, I'll have things complete.
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | I have and have tried, HD10L, GT17's and I removed one of the HD10F from the Sony G90 and it gave the exact same performance as the GT17. |
That's interesting that you don't see an improvement with the G90 10Fs. I know at my screen size (110" diagonal), the GT17s are ok to use, but just inside the their range, so not optimal. I believe the 10Fs are in the same boat. HFG900s are good over a much wider range. I'm wondering if US precision would sell direct? Has anyone tried this?
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | I have and have tried, HD10L, GT17's and I removed one of the HD10F from the Sony G90 and it gave the exact same performance as the GT17. |
That's interesting that you don't see an improvement with the G90 10Fs. I know at my screen size (110" diagonal), the GT17s are ok to use, but just inside the their range, so not optimal. I believe the 10Fs are in the same boat. HFG900s are good over a much wider range. I'm wondering if US precision would sell direct? Has anyone tried this? |
If you're willing to purchase a new set of HFQ900 lenses, then you would do better to purchase a Barco 909 just for the lenses. I'm sure a new set of HFQ900 lenses would cost more than what you could get a Barco909 for.
I remember back in the nineties when we upgraded the lenses on a Marquee 9500 from HD10 to GT17's, the cost was somewhere around 10K- so the lenses are not cheap.
You should save your money and wait on a set of HFQ 900 lenses.
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, ok my statement was pretty stupid. That's what I get for posting before I finished my first cup of coffee. US precision sells at a hefty price to VDC, VDC gets a hefty price from industry/goverment. They probably don't have much of a margin selling them to home theatre.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | tse wrote: | Just curious. If you turn up G2 enough to see the raster, how much of it is covered by the picture?
Scott |
The actual picture overshoots the raster a bit. I'm in short retrace.
I may need to find a mid point with the changes, if it's causing the slight overshoot. I prefer where it is, because it's less ringing on the left side.
The HDM I've been using has way more ringing than any I've had before. |
Ok, I put everything back to original and the overshoot problem is still there in stock form..
So 1920x1080P 72hz at least on my 9500 Ultra using a Radiance as source provides a bit of horizontal overshoot of the raster. I'll look more into this later, but for now, I'll be going back to the size mod.
Also, when the focus coil is at the exact right spot on the neck of the tube, the outer zones simply fall right into focus, without a lot of playing with stig, etc. If the focus coils are not in the perfect spot, then the outer zones require a lot of attention. And at times, I've not been able to dial the outer zones in until I put the focus coils back at the sweet spot.
The other thing I found out was with the 909 coils, they worked better with the 4 pole rings that came on the 909 tubes. The 2 pole rings found on some Marquees should not be used with these coils.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | tse wrote: | Just curious. If you turn up G2 enough to see the raster, how much of it is covered by the picture?
Scott |
The actual picture overshoots the raster a bit. I'm in short retrace.
I may need to find a mid point with the changes, if it's causing the slight overshoot. I prefer where it is, because it's less ringing on the left side.
The HDM I've been using has way more ringing than any I've had before. |
Ok, I put everything back to original and the overshoot problem is still there in stock form..
So 1920x1080P 72hz at least on my 9500 Ultra using a Radiance as source provides a bit of horizontal overshoot of the raster. I'll look more into this later, but for now, I'll be going back to the size mod.
Also, when the focus coil is at the exact right spot on the neck of the tube, the outer zones simply fall right into focus, without a lot of playing with stig, etc. If the focus coils are not in the perfect spot, then the outer zones require a lot of attention. And at times, I've not been able to dial the outer zones in until I put the focus coils back at the sweet spot.
The other thing I found out was with the 909 coils, they worked better with the 4 pole rings that came on the 909 tubes. The 2 pole rings found on some Marquees should not be used with these coils. |
Do you mean the picture won't fit without "wrapping around" on the sides when you say overshoot? The Marquee HDM retrace time should be about 1.8us when in short retrace. The blanking time should be longer than that even at 1080p 72Hz. There should be some raster not being used.
Scott
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: |
Do you mean the picture won't fit without "wrapping around" on the sides when you say overshoot? The Marquee HDM retrace time should be about 1.8us when in short retrace. The blanking time should be longer than that even at 1080p 72Hz. There should be some raster not being used.
Scott |
I should have said overscan instead. I've tried another HDM and still get the overscan in 'short' retrace.
It's almost within the raster, with maybe an ince missing on either side. The "Phase" (PIC 1) shifts it from side to side, and allows both ends to be shown on the screen, but the image is still too large for the raster.
I may have done something in the processor to make this happen, because i don't recall seeing it before when using the processor.
The increased horizontal size from the mod does not effect the overscan issue..
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like the video processor is outputting a very short horizontal blanking. Attached is a spreadsheet that will give the (maybe old) VESA timing parameters for video formats.
Scott
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Mike in the lumagen add to the Total pixels for Horizontal. I think I was up to 2500, this increased the raster to go over the edge of the tube but will give enough room for the image to be fully shown. This will also put the ringing out of the image and into the raster which is now over the tube face edge. As long as the scan lines(image) does not go to the edge you'll be fine.
Also after you make that 2500 or 2400 might work too, make sure the sync size, the actual pixels(1080p), the front porch and back porch all add up to 2400 or 2500.
Nashou
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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if i fill in 1920 * 1080 at 72hz i get a pixel clock of 210mhz. (vesa timings program tse)
can the lumagen cope with this?
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am not familiar with the lumagen so I don't know. If you decrease the horizontal (and/or vertical) blanking it will decrease the pixel clock frequency but if you go too far the active video will not fit on the raster.
Scott
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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Location: nederland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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i dont have a lumagen but really like to have 1 since the ps3 doesnt scale.
if the legacy models dont do 1920*1080 at 72 and 75 than they are practically useless.
dennis
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dennis, I agree. One day the Radiance plus models will be in our price range! Unfortunately for me, Terry's super tube extravaganza sale came at the same time as the Lumagen sale, so I had to make a choice. 
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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i would have made the same choice.
i still dont have the money for new tubes and am still waiting for my tax refund.
1200 usd for 3 tubes is a giveaway and i hope such a deal comes along later this year.
the super 02vim is also high on the list.
the lumagen will have to wait and it must do 220 mhz minimal.
my guess is that the pricedrop is due to a new line of products that will come out probably next year and will allow a much greater pixelclock.
dennis
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marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | i dont have a lumagen but really like to have 1 since the ps3 doesnt scale.
if the legacy models dont do 1920*1080 at 72 and 75 than they are practically useless.
dennis |
I disagree. 800p@72 is awesome, how many movies in BD do you watch that are 1.78? sure Avatar is but no gig deal use 1080p@60.
read this
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=737385
Craig Rounds write this to explain how using Active Area Scanning can improve image and use less bandwidth.
Most BD movies are in 2.4 aspect which is 800p of active area. why waste bandwidth on the 280 unused portion of the scaled image(black bars top and bottom)? It doesn't make sense. Aske anyone who switched from doing 1080p@60 to 800p@72 and they will all say WOW.
its that noticable.
Not to mention the 11 point Gamma correction and 11 point Primary CMS which can be assigned to any custom IRE you need to adjust.
They are still great processors and are super cheap compared tot he new models.
If your doing lots of 1.78 movie viewing then you want the radiance or a TV-One unit that will do 1080p@72. Otherwise I think its not needed for most.
Athanasios
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studio
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 191
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mike,
I have a 1209s are the 909's coils different than mine?
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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series are mostly 16:9 and we will see more ps3 games to be 1080p all in 16:9 format.
now i am wasting bandwidth too when watching 800p movies cause i run 1920*1080 72hz via the pc and am still blown away by the picture.
dennis.
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