CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Ironman1965]

Anybody out there try this. Since I have my PJ apart I've decided to do a fan mod while I'm at it. I powered up each case fan separately to see how loud each fan is. Wow!! I can't believe how irritating the high volume 80mm fans are. What I'm attempting is a mod that will fit in the case. Each fan I've selected out performs the factory fans in Db and CFM. Here's a list of the fans and specs I intend to use.

_________________________________________________________________

Location
Stock Fan & Specs
--
Upgraded Fan & Specs


Deflection Coils
3 @ Panaflo FBA08T12H 80x80x15 33.5 CFM 34dB 3100 RPM
--
3 @ Gelid FN-FW09-20-B 92x92x25 39.8 CFM 22.5dB 2000 RPM

Case Sides
2 @ Panaflo FBA08T12H 80x80x15 33.5 CFM 34dB 3100 RPM
--
2 @ Scythe SY1025SLN12M 100x100x25 42.69 CFM 22dB 1500 RPM

Rear Side Card Cage
1 @ FBA08T12L 80x80x15 21.9 CFM 23dB 2000 RPM
--
1 @ SilenX IXP-52-14 80x80x15 24 CFM 14dB 1800 RPM

Horizontal Deflection Tunnel
1 @ Pico Ace 25 60x60x25 18.7 CFM 28dB 3800 RPM
--
1 @ Gelid FN-FW08-20 80x80x25 28.1 CFM 21dB 2000 RPM Big Upgrade

Power Supply
2 @ Panaflo FBA06A12L 60x 60x25 14.1 CFM 24dB 3200 RPM
--
2 @ Silenx IXP-34-16 60x60x25 18 CFM 16dB 2200 RPM

Green Neck Board
1 @ Copal F412R-12LA-16 40x40x10 3.88 CFM 16dB 4200 RPM
--
1 @ Scythe SY124010L 40x40x10 4.1 CFM 14dB 3500 RPM

Relocate from Rear Side Card Cage to Under/Over Green Neck Board (Optional)
1 @ Panaflo FBA08T12L 80x80x15 21.9 CFM 23dB 2000 RPM

_________________________________________________________________

The first obstacles to overcome is the obvious space/size restrictions.

1) For the Side Fans, my solution is to remove the side plates and enlarge the existing holes to 105mm each (all cut from the bottom up, this way the aluminum bottom plate doesn't need to be cut) using a jigsaw and metal blade. Fab 4 custom brackets (See CAD Image below) using sheet metal. Bolt the brackets from the inside then attach the fans using silicone noise dampers.

2) For the Deflection Coils, my solution is to fab 3 custom brackets (See CAD Image below) using sheet metal. Then Bolt the brackets to the existing bracket holes and attach the fans using silicone noise dampers.

3) The Deflection Tunnel fan required a little finesse. My solution is to fab a custom bracket/shroud (See CAD Image below) using sheet metal. This requires the fan to be reoriented from vertical to horizontal. Attach the fan using silicone noise dampers then bolt the bracket to the plate beside the deflection tunnel.

4) The Rear Side Card Cage fan should be a simple swap out as the replacement fan is the same dimensions

5) The Power Supply fans should be a simple swap out as the replacement fans are the same dimensions

6) The Green Neck Board fan should be a simple swap out as the replacement fan is the same dimensions


Side Brackets CAD Image




Deflection Coil Brackets




Deflection Tunnel Shroud/Bracket



If all goes as planned this should allow for a far less audible XG.

All fans were selected from this criteria
Performance CFM/dB
Durability
Fit

Unfortunately I was stuck with the 3 SilenX fans. I could not find suitable fans to replace the 2 power supply fans and the Rear Side Card Cage fan was just a royal PITA as the max depth of the fan is 20mm, hence the SilenX here as well. SilenX has a reputation as being overzealous on their specs. and not the most reliable. Hopefully this has changed since those observations were made. I will compare the factory fans and the SilenX fans (when they arrive) and decide at that time which ones I will use. If the noise level is marginal I will stick with the factory fans, otherwise they will be replaced. I will also post any thoughts and updates as time goes by. I will also post images of the fans installed.

BTW: The Scythe SY1025SLN12M 100x100x25 fans seem to be in short supply. Not sure if they are discontinuing or what, so I bought 4 just to be safe.

Suggestions, feedback, input?

[David_Web]

CFM isn't really a useful spec when it comes to pushing air through obstacles.
Most low RPM high CFM pretty much stalls then there is any load at all. They just stop delivering airflow.

So make sure they still deliver enough airflow when mounted.


"Horizontal Deflection Tunnel
1 @ Pico Ace 25 60x60x25 18.7 CFM 28dB 3800 RPM
--
1 @ Gelid FN-FW08-20 80x80x25 28.1 CFM 21dB 2000 RPM Big Upgrade"

For some reason I expect the stock fans to deliver more flow through the tunnel unless the tunnel is oversized for the fans to begin with.
Also I find small fans to deliver higher pressure than bigger fans. Not sure how depth compensates though.

If you could find static pressure rating for stock and new fans it would be a little easier to predict the outcome.

[Ironman1965]

Here's what I have so far....

Deflection Coils
3 @ Panaflo FBA08T12H 80x80x15 33.5 CFM 34dB 3100 RPM Static Pressure 3.20 mmH2O
--
3 @ Gelid FN-FW09-20-B 92x92x25 39.8 CFM 22.5dB 2000 RPM Static Pressure 2.15 mmH2O

Case Sides
2 @ Panaflo FBA08T12H 80x80x15 33.5 CFM 34dB 3100 RPM Static Pressure 3.20 mmH2O
--
2 @ Scythe SY1025SLN12M 100x100x25 42.69 CFM 22dB 1500 RPM (Awaiting Response from Mfg.)

Back Card Cage
1 @ Panaflo FBA08T12L 80x80x15 21.9 CFM 23dB 2000 RPM Static Pressure 1.55 mmH2O
--
1 @ SilenX IXP-52-14 80x80x15 24 CFM 14dB 1800 RPM (Awaiting Response from Mfg.)

Horizontal Deflection Tunnel
1 @ Pico Ace 25 60x60x25 18.7 CFM 28dB 3800 RPM Static Pressure 4.10 mmH2O
--
1 @ Gelid FN-FW08-20 80x80x25 28.1 CFM 21dB 2000 RPM Static Pressure 2.05 mmH2O

Power Supply
2 @ Panaflo FBA06A12L 60x60x25 14.1CFM 24dB 3200 RPM Static Pressure 3.10 mmH2O
--
2 @ Silenx IXP-34-16 60x60x25 18 CFM 16dB 2200 RPM (Awaiting Response from Mfg.)

Green Neck Board
1 @ Copal F412R-12LA-16 40x40x10 3.88 CFM 16dB 4200 RPM Static Pressure 1.53 mmH2O
--
1 @ Scythe SY124010L 40x40x10 4.1 CFM 14dB 3500 RPM (Awaiting Response from Mfg.)

[Ironman1965]

I've been doing some reading and fan pressure seems to be of most importance when forcing air through dense restrictions. Now I'm no aerodynamics specialist but I don't see any parts of my PJ that fit this description other than the Deflection Tunnel. The power supply has roughly 4900 sq.mm of vent opening which is approximately the same amount of surface as the fans themselves. My thoughts?? If the fans can draw X amount of air through Y opening (fan surface ID) then they shouldn't have to force air out Z opening (vent holes in power supply) if it is pretty much the same size. The deflection tunnel has an ~1470 sq.mm opening for the air to travel through down the middle and note the shroud for the stock fan doesn't seal completely to the heat sink tunnel. The fan I plan on using here is 1/2 the pressure of the factory so I don't know how it will perform, but rest assured that I will compare both on the Def Tunnel and if the 80mm doesn't seem to perform up to snuff I'll either go back to the factory or I'll find something else to replace it with.

[Mark_A_W]

OMG is that like Autocad R13 or sumfin?


I slowed the fans with zener diodes.

Added a hushbox.

And extracted air through the chassis base, reversing the rear side fans.

[Ironman1965]

OMG R1 Alpha!!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding. AutoCAD 2005 actually. Just did a screen copy and cropped out the rest.

[Mark_A_W]

It can't render a solid body?

[Ironman1965]

Sure. If and when I have the time to figure out how.

Never seems to be enough hours in a day.

Sleep....

My thoughts....

Total waste of time but not optional.

[Ile]

Here is some fan design basics.

http://www.nmbtc.com/fans/engineering/thermal_design.html#body01

Autocad OT: You should find hide, rendering and material commands.
R13 had those under view menu if I remember right, 2010 seem to have render menu.
http://www.we-r-here.com/cad/tutorials/level_3/3-9.htm

[JorisS]

I went with a more "Ghetto" solution - cut holes in the side case so the fans I bought to replace the original ones (bought Noctua for all 80mm fans) fit. I think if I recall correctly that I had to go with the Silenx fans for the 60mm fans too.
In addition I put a 120mm fan in base of the pj, sucking out hot air. In the ceiling mount setup we have this fan does effectively pull out hot air from the top.

Seems to work fine, still sounds well more than an LCD or so but hey... it's WAY more silent than the original!
The fans that made most noise in my experience were the power supply fans - the new fans did so too so I rigged them with a resistor to lower RPM.

Good luck with your mod! I can throw up some pics of mine one of these days if you're interested - wasn't too bothered with the looks + cutting holes in the side chassi means a less restricted airflow too Just have to mount grills so no fingers or other stuff get stuck in there (unlikely hanging at ~2m from the ground but anyway).

Cheers
//Joris

[kal]

Most of the fan noise on an XG is from air turbulance and not the fan itself. I used to own an XG and got a really good look at the design. It's as if the engineers built the thing and then decided where to add fans as an afterthought. LOTS of air turbulance which causes noise.

If replacing the fans helps it's only because they're creating less air turbulance which means they're simply moving less air (running slower or have less static pressure). Moving less air is not good.

I would not modify the fans unless I was hushboxing it and using a push/pull system to move more air through the projector in general.

Kal

[kal]

Most of the fan noise on an XG is from air turbulance and not the fan itself. I used to own an XG and got a really good look at the design. It's as if the engineers built the thing and then decided where to add fans as an afterthought. LOTS of air turbulance which causes noise.

If replacing the fans helps it's only because they're creating less air turbulance which means they're simply moving less air (running slower or have less static pressure). Moving less air is not good.

I would not modify the fans unless I was hushboxing it and using a push/pull system to move more air through the projector in general.

Kal

[Ironman1965]

I've been running this PJ for about 2 years totally stock. Yes it is loud but you do sort of get used to it as far as the dB's go. When I set up the actual theater room the PJ will be properly hush boxed, but that could still be some time down the road. I do agree with the turbulence statement but only to a certain degree. Turbulence makes a whooshing sound like wind in the trees (not entirely unpleasant) whereas some fans make a distinct high pitched whine. When I designed my HTPC console/case I removed the 80mm fan from the power supply (PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750) placed the PS in a rack that seals to a chamber that includes a HD rack. Much like the higher end PC cases. Now the air is channeled through the HD's then through the PS and vented by 2 120mm Noctua's. Dead silent. The original fan was whinny enough to make you grind your teeth. PC Power & Cooling states how so many PS's are noisy due to turbulence and they remedy this by moving the fan away from the component board creating a quieter PS. "I don't think so Tim". If there are PS's out there that are more tooth grinding noisy than this one I truly feel sorry for there owners. It was by far the noisiest PS I've ever owned or heard. It had the sound of a power tool. My HTPC console has "11" fans in it (10-120mm 1-92mm) and is barely audible (I also love and highly recommend Seagate Barracudas for their dB's and durability). What can be heard is a slight but low pitched humming/whooshing which is not uncomfortable to the ear (kind of like a furnace but not near as loud). The other day while sampling the sound made by each individual fan from the PJ I also fired up the old PS fan as well. Now, while the PS fan spins at a ridiculous speed and makes a very distinguishable wind noise, it also makes the same high pitched whinny noise as the the PJ's 80mm and 60mm PS fans. Losing this whine should have a dramatic effect on comfort to the ears much like when someone "stops" scratching their fingernails on a blackboard. In the end we'll just have to see if the effort is worth it, though I firmly believe there should be a dramatic improvement.

As far as air pressure is concerned, I'm no aerodynamics engineer so the numbers don't mean much to me. Obviously larger is better. The real question though is how much is needed, and without knowing the math/engineering I don't know. I do have a better understanding of PSI to mmH2O and 1 mmH2O is only just over .2PSI which isn't very much, but again I'm no aerodynamics engineer. All I'll be able to do is the Idiots guide to testing this. Install the original fan, power the fan up and feeeel (as Cheech and Chong would say) how much air comes out the other end. Then do the same with the replacement fan and make a judgment call. Same to improved.. Use the replacement. Less.. Try different fan or stick with OEM. The only fan I have any concerns with is the HDT fan, as it is actually squeezing it's air into the tunnel.

BTW the 11 fan breakdown in my HTPC console is

1-92mm VGA

1-120mm CPU

2-120mm Internal HDD's and PS (Filtered)

3-120mm Motherboard & External Bays (Filtered)

2-120mm Blowing directly on 2 HDD Docks (Filtered)

2-120mm Drawing hot air away from Receiver

All Noctua's. I don't think there are quieter fans on the market for the volume they move, although they supposedly have poor pressure specs. They do keep all my systems temps well within specs with a good safety margin as well, so I can't sing loud enough praise for them used in a free flowing environment.

[Ironman1965]

Yeah Joris, I'd like to see what you've done.

During my research, looking for the fans for this project, I came across a few that have a much more aesthetically appealing look to them and have a built in cage. These fans may be able to be made to look almost if not completely stock if the opening cut in the PJ case was trimmed with something nice. When you have a minute have a look at the Arctic Cooling fans for an example and see what you think.