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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: My Radiance is Running 1080p 72Hz :) |
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Starting today, I am testing Radiance processors that I have installed for clients in the field. Lumagen and I want to see what percentage, and how many, Radiance units can support 1080p 72Hz.. The photo above is from my own rig at home on the G90.
I have an XE install this weekend on another G90 and that will likely be the next unit I get to try running 72Hz on. If I find that a lot (or most) of the XE's can run 72Hz, Lumagne may unlock the clocks so that anyone can try it. Or Lumagen may come out with an XE Special addition that supports 1080p 72Hz guaranteed. Lumagen hasn't decided what they are going to do (if anything) yet.
This has been tossed around at AVS for a while in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1209588.
I'll update as I collect more data 
craigr
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Last edited by CIR Engineering on Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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How does the G90 look at 72hz?
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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This is really cool.
What's the signal path you're using to feed the G90?
How does what you see on screen compare to the screenshot you posted?
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | How does the G90 look at 72hz? |
I too would like to see a closeup of the 1:1 pattern. That high the geometry can get pretty touchy too...Looks pretty good from what I see.
Mike
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | Looks pretty good from what I see. |
I agree. The 1-on/1-off pattern looks pretty rough on my G70 - it goes pretty magenta. The G90 looks nice and clean. I'd love to see a close-up too, though.
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | How does the G90 look at 72hz? |
It brings tears to my eyes 
craigr
_________________
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Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| HaydnG90 wrote: | This is really cool.
What's the signal path you're using to feed the G90?
How does what you see on screen compare to the screenshot you posted? |
BDP-83 > XE > Moome v2
The bad is that the sharpness looks better in the photo than in real life. However, the sharpness is still pretty darn good. I would estimate that 1080p 72Hz is attenuated about 40% at 1:1 on/off. But keep in mind that most transcoders have been attenuating more than that in the past.
I was worried about the geometry, but it also came out quite nice. There is a slight bend at the top left, and the top leftmost corner is squirrelly, but that is the worst of it. Convergence is almost perfect.
The focus is quite poor at the extreme corners and not as good on the sides. I plan to redo all the 6-pole zones next week tuned to 1080p 72Hz instead of 60Hz. There is a lot of triangulation of the beam all the way around the boarder and it should be correctable and made much sharper. I have a new green LUG to put in next week and I just don't feel like doing the magnetics twice.
It looks really really really good on BD movies. I can't wait to watch more.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | MikeEby wrote: | | Looks pretty good from what I see. |
I agree. The 1-on/1-off pattern looks pretty rough on my G70 - it goes pretty magenta. The G90 looks nice and clean. I'd love to see a close-up too, though.
SC |
I'll throw up some shots later.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Thats cool, they should unlock the older Vision series too, I think the HDQ should be able to do it possibly since the Analog outs can handle it .
Craig to you know what the Digital side of the HDQ or HDP pro chip max is, not what lumagen limits it to?
Athanasios |
I don't have any idea 
craigr
_________________
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Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
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Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Craig we spoke on the phone earlier today about the Radiance XE and XS - thanks again for taking time out of your day for me. I'm curious, since the Radiance XD has HDMI 1.1 vs. 1.3, even if the VP could be unlocked to do 1080p72 the HDMI chips wouldn't be able to support anything over 1080p60 right? Also, would there be any benefit to those of us with lowly digital PJs by sending 1080p72 to them? I'm not sure if my RS35 would even accept that, but I figured it was worth asking. Thanks!
HP
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | HaydnG90 wrote: | This is really cool.
What's the signal path you're using to feed the G90?
How does what you see on screen compare to the screenshot you posted? |
BDP-83 > XE > Moome v2
The bad is that the sharpness looks better in the photo than in real life. However, the sharpness is still pretty darn good. I would estimate that 1080p 72Hz is attenuated about 40% at 1:1 on/off. But keep in mind that most transcoders have been attenuating more than that in the past.
I was worried about the geometry, but it also came out quite nice. There is a slight bend at the top left, and the top leftmost corner is squirrelly, but that is the worst of it. Convergence is almost perfect.
The focus is quite poor at the extreme corners and not as good on the sides. I plan to redo all the 6-pole zones next week tuned to 1080p 72Hz instead of 60Hz. There is a lot of triangulation of the beam all the way around the boarder and it should be correctable and made much sharper. I have a new green LUG to put in next week and I just don't feel like doing the magnetics twice.
It looks really really really good on BD movies. I can't wait to watch more.
craigr |
Do you notice the improved smoothness at 72hz? 60hz is an abomination...well, at least it is to someone who grew up with PAL smoothness for films.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | Craig we spoke on the phone earlier today about the Radiance XE and XS - thanks again for taking time out of your day for me. I'm curious, since the Radiance XD has HDMI 1.1 vs. 1.3, even if the VP could be unlocked to do 1080p72 the HDMI chips wouldn't be able to support anything over 1080p60 right? Also, would there be any benefit to those of us with lowly digital PJs by sending 1080p72 to them? I'm not sure if my RS35 would even accept that, but I figured it was worth asking. Thanks!
HP |
Patrick said he tried it on an XD and the processor started getting noise at 165 MHz.
I don't think a JCV RS will support 1080p 72Hz and there really wouldn't be any benefit since the JCV can support 48 Hz. I don't like 48 Hz on a CRT because the flicker bothers me. With an lcos projector there isn't any flicker
craigr
_________________
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Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
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OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: |
Do you notice the improved smoothness at 72hz? 60hz is an abomination...well, at least it is to someone who grew up with PAL smoothness for films. |
I love 72Hz. I've had 817x1920 72Hz set up since the Radiance started to properly support multiples of 24 Hz. I remember the first time I saw 72 Hz on a CRT... I didn't notice much difference. But after a while it is hard to live without Very smooth motion.
craigr
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Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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What happened to the picture?
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | What happened to the picture? |
I posted it over on AVS as well, and I didn't like the tone of one of the responses, so I took the photo off my server last night to avoid problems for Lumagen. I just put the image back up here, because the attitude at CurtPalme.com is a lot more civil.
I'll try and get some screen shots up of real world images, but I may not have time until next week.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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kal
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Here are two photos of the 1:1 SMTPE.
http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/Lumagen/72hz/xe-moome_72hz_close1.JPG
http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/Lumagen/72hz/xe-moome_72hz_close2.JPG
That is pretty close to what it looks like with the added JPG compression from my camera. It looks better in person.
craigr
_________________
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JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Impressive indeed.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | 71.928 to be exact! I see the interface rounds it off to 71.93.
If anyone's interested in buying a Radiance (any version, including the newer less expensive XS) we have them here. We even throw in a free $1139 EyeOnePro meter with CalMAN Enthusiast package!
Sencore who now is the official distributor is strict about pricing (you can't discount at all). But there's no rules against adding free stuff! Already got an EyeOne Pro or want something else? Email me at spectracal@curtpalme.com
Kal |
Yes, the status page shows 71.93, but on the Radiance you can enter clocks 1Hz at a time. So I am running 1120x2221 total pixels with a clock of 178922517 Hz... which is very precise
Did I already mention how happy I am.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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