CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

You may need to redo your mechanical and magnetic alignment. With every position-affecting adjustment in the projector set to midrange, by all rights the results should be pretty well centered on the CRT faces.

It adds a lot of stress on components when circuits are working against an imperfect setup. The more precise and correct your basic
mechanical and magnetic alignment, the cooler the electronics will run and the longer they'll last and be reliable, with the added benefit of greater stability.

I think that if you were to ask our most experienced projector technicians and setup specialists, they'd all agree that one indicator of the
quality of your setup can be estimated by how much drift you get between the time power up your projector from a cold start to the time
it's completely warmed up and stable at operating temperature. A really good setup won't drift at all, or hardly at all, anyway.

CJ

J Kildare · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 164

Thanks Chris

I have set this projector up probably 50 times. Done it by B Blues document in combination with your sugestions of disconnecting stig and convergence. When it was an 8500 with hd 144 lenses and all but 1/16 inch on each side of tube face being utilized I could do 1080p with scan lines, no banding and no jailbars. Can a poorly set up 8500 do that? I wouldn't think so but it still drifted.

I disconnect convergence and stig boards during setup, at center screen I have very good stig and flare without them connected. While ramping focus blue and green track very close, within 1/8 inch while red (lug) is maybe 3/8 inch from 0 to 100.

Blue and green h and v settings were both at 50 but red was 36 and 42.
I guess it now defaults to 50 but my red convergence is the best it's been I think. Will know tomorrow.

Jim

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

As long as your mechanical and magnetic setups are optimized, you're good. There is always some variance in the actual values of components in any circuit, so it's never guaranteed that your centering adjustments will actually center up properly at 50. It should
be reasonably close, though. I think you're doing fine, within 15 points of 50 in all cases.

What I do to check centering is very simple: Unplug the focus, astig, and convergence yokes. Just make darned sure you don't unplug a deflection yoke!

If your centering doesn't change when you unplug focus, astig, and convergence, then your electronic centering is fully "relaxed" and
you should have a cool running and reliable projector.

I unplug all those yokes when doing my basic setup, aimed at getting the centering perfect and the CPC magnets optimized. Then I
plug in the focus yokes, and do focusing. Then I plug in astig, and do astig. Then I plug in convergence, and converge the unit.

I'm kind of looking forward to redoing the whole affair on my own PJ in a couple of weeks or months. I know I can get it a lot better
than it is now. Advanced (optimized) Frankenyokes and custom magnetized CPC magnets should help out quite a bit.

CJ

CJ

shar1950 · Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 80 Location: alberta, canada

I'm new to marquee 8500 and not too familiar with where all the boards and connection are located. Where do you disconnect the focus,astig and convergence connections, would you remove all 3 sets of wires going to each tube , on each board ?

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

shar1950 · Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 80 Location: alberta, canada

I guess I better do a lot of reading and location of all boards on the marquee.
thanks man

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

No problem.

Nashou

J Kildare · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 164

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

With the Frankenyokes, you leave them plugged in because their static focus value is off, I'll bet.

An ideal focus coil's magnetic strength will leave a well focused central image when the coil is unplugged and electronic focus is set to 50. If it doesn't, then the magnetic strength is significantly off from the ideal value.

This is why I'm working on a fully optimized version of the Frankenyoke. It will be magnetically correct with correct coil inductances as
well, and will be called the Advanced Frankenyoke. If I'm successful, it will be possible for me to make changes to any existing Frankenyokes to bring them up to the advanced level. And, subject to availability of the cables, adapt most other K-D manufactured
focus yokes for the task, so long as they have 9 pins or more on their connector(s)s.

CJ

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Nuts, got my hopes up there for a sec. Smile

I have some KF-2211K coils but they only have 4 wires, marked S-, +, -, and +D on the internal circuit board. OHwell...

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

The KF-2211s will work but they don't have astig windings. They're fine for use with an 8000 or 8110. They can also be optimized, I'm pretty sure.

CJ

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

I actually wired them up with appropriate connectors for the 8500 and gave them a try, but I didn't have much time to experiment with them. I ran into problems and decided I was better off with the original coils and astig control. They've been sitting in a box for the last few years.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Without astig, you can still get a good picture. As good as an 8110. If you at least have full 6 pole CPC magnets you can get very good results indeed.

I once sold an 8110 to a guy who I still keep in touch with, and it was as sharp in the corners as any stock Marquee I've seen to this day,
and being an 8110, it didn't have electronic astig. Going to optimized Frankenyokes (22-11s) is very much an option for you even
without the astig windings.

In fact, I'm more than willing to use your yokes as a proof of concept, that this works as well with 22-11s as any of the astig-equipped
yokes. I'll optimize them for free if you'll just agree to install them and post a review on them when you're done evaluating them.

CJ

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Hm, I think I could do that. But I don't have 6-pole magnets. I had one 6-pole set (one set of rings on one tube, not one set of 3) and tried slipping it on, but I couldn't get it to work right so I reverted to the original magnets. Not sure if there was something wrong with that set or if I installed them wrong or what.

6-poles without a stig board are only going to give you one overall control, basically stig correction in the center of the screen. What about the sides & corners? There's a BIG difference between the center & edges on my projector. Even with a stig board I can't get rid of the triangularities in the corners.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

There may be good news for you there, too.

One of the projects I'm planning is a jig to remagnetize any set of CPC rings to any desired pattern, making them suitable for flare (2 pole), astig (4 pole), or triangularity (6 pole). This will allow me to reuse any old Thompson type CPC rings (the ones found on Marquees
and some other projectors) and turn them into what's needed, and deliver a clean magnetic pattern at the strength that is expected of a
new and non-abused CPC set.

Many CPC sets have three ring pairs but only one or two are actually used. The third is a dummy ring set, usually in the middle, and with
no adjuster. I will soon be able to turn those dummy sets into 6 pole rings.

I've been collecting CPC packs at every opportunity so I can make a few new sets of 2,4,6 pole CPC rings, all freshly remagnetized in
the appropriate patterns. I'll make them available to those who need them.

However, it's not my HIGHEST priority project. The Advanced Frankenyokes are higher on the list.

Even an 8000 can deliver a pretty sharp image with good dot shapes. But triangularity can only be cured by properly adjusted 6 pole triangularity magnets.

CJ

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Well, I skewed my convergence in one zone, then adjusted the timing to center the hump. But I don't see any improvement, or really any change. I still have focus issues on one side. Dragan and I have beat on the Scheimpflug on this thing so I *think* it's right, but... Considering that my major focus issues are in the red, NOT all 3 colors, I should have known that an all-colors adjustment like this wouldn't fix it.

I tried setting the focus timing. I put up a crosshatch pattern and defocused it, then tried adjusting the timing. I'm still not sure what I'm looking for and I didn't see any dramatic changes, so I put it back to 50. How should I adjust the focus and stig timing?

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Oh, I thought you said it could be done visually, though not as precisely. OK, then I'll leave it alone.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

It can be done visually. It's a little more subjective as to when it's timed exactly correctly, but you'll have no problem improving focus timing if it is indeed well off what it should be.

CJ