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Your CRT projector is better than you think
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:47 pm    Post subject:

link not working Tom ?

Athanasios

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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635


Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:02 pm    Post subject:

Not sure what is up but it works fine here... Try this


Temporal resolution.pdf
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 Filename:  Temporal resolution.pdf
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject:

I've read that paper half a dozen times, Tom... It's dealing with the temporal resolution (response or rise/fall time) of different display technologies. I don't see how that has anything to do with Dragan's suggestion that 720p somehow has better on/off contrast than does 1080p.

I suppose that with the slower Hscan of 720p, the projector could be slightly brighter, increasing the on/off somewhat, but I would think you could bump beam current (contrast) slightly to offset the difference.

But, I don't see how the temporal resolution white paper has anything to do with it... Unless I'm missing something.

SC
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject:

TSE posted some cool graphs over on AVS, with Beam overlap their isn't enough time to turn it fully "off" before the next pulse (pixel) is generated.
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:22 am    Post subject:

I could see that affecting ANSI not on/off. As for sharpness, you may be right. I remember when Scott measured MTF and I had him do it at different resolutions. I seem to remember that it didn't change that much between 1080p and some lower resolutions. IIRC it jumped dramatically at 800x600.


Crabb,
I am curious about something. Before Scott told people they could run 1080p on 8" pjs no one really did it and stuck with 720p and 1080i. Would you have went digital already if you were stuck at these resolutions? I wonder how many people went digital because they were unaware that they could do higher resolutions.
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:48 am    Post subject:

Spanky Ham wrote:
I could see that affecting ANSI not on/off. As for sharpness, you may be right. I remember when Scott measured MTF and I had him do it at different resolutions. I seem to remember that it didn't change that much between 1080p and some lower resolutions. IIRC it jumped dramatically at 800x600.
yes your right, i meant intra-scene. Fixed my post


Spanky Ham wrote:
Crabb,
I am curious about something. Before Scott told people they could run 1080p on 8" pjs no one really did it and stuck with 720p and 1080i. Would you have went digital already if you were stuck at these resolutions? I wonder how many people went digital because they were unaware that they could do higher resolutions.
that argument raged for years even Scott and many others posted proof with test patterns. I doubt 1080P is why those who switched did so, I think many of them did for other reasons with CIH being one of the few that made sense.
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zaphod



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject:

WTS wrote:
Hi Zap,

My mistake it was Empire not Cineplex, sorry.


no problem, i go to both chains. but i only have an "in" at one Smile
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Jim Shonk



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Zanesville Ohio

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject:

The best way to solve this resolution issue is to do what I did, I set up 720p, 1080i, and then 1080p, on my Leeza, then I just flipped from one to the other, I used the same spot in the video using the DVR, And I am sorry to inform the nay sayers, but to my old tiered eyes 1080p looks the best hands down, I even had the wife tell me witch one she liked best and she picked the 1080p right off the bat. Now I am in no way implying that 1080p looks as good on my 8 inch as it would on 9 inch, or that measured with the newest high fangled color meter oscilloscope wave guide watton tott thinga jig , it wouldn’t have a few missing wiggly lines, I feel I am getting the best possible picture the PJ can give, which is what we all want, Had I just bought into all the banter and never tried it, I would still be watching 720p which would be only in my opinion 70% of the PJ’s capability, as 1080p on my unit, looks 30% better.
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HighDefDude



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject:

You are so right with you first post Jim,

I also wondered if the top CRT's still could compete withe the high-end digital world. Apart from the stabillity and over-the-years performance of CRT's, image quality tsill is superb with a good setup..

A few days ago, someone wrote he bought a JVC HD950, which, according to him, was an upgrade over the BG1209/2 he used till then.. I was tempted to write to him: How much effort did you take to properly setup the 1209 ??
On a later note, his 1209 was not color filtered and had visible wear on green.. So in his case he was propably right calling the JVC an upgrade..

I still use a perfectly color corrected BG 1209 with no wear at all.. And all that come over to watch films, friends, collegues, family, say that they never have seen an image that clean, rich of contrast, color-real, and transparent !

Edit: I see you guyzz talk about resolutions of 1080i, 1080p and 720p.. Ever considered 900p ?? I use an HTPC at 1600x900p with very satisfying results..

I'm sure I'll stick with CRT for many years to come !!


Happy newyear to you all !!


HDD.
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VideoGrabber



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject:

HDD wrote:
> I see you guyzz talk about resolutions of 1080i, 1080p and 720p. Ever considered 900p?? I use an HTPC at 1600x900p with very satisfying results. <

MikeEby uses that rez as well, and is very happy with it, after trying just about every other alternative on his XG/LC. He's also using an HTPC, though I suspect most with standalone HD scalers could try that too.

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:04 pm    Post subject:

VideoGrabber wrote:
HDD wrote:
> I see you guyzz talk about resolutions of 1080i, 1080p and 720p. Ever considered 900p?? I use an HTPC at 1600x900p with very satisfying results. <
MikeEby uses that rez as well, and is very happy with it, after trying just about every other alternative on his XG/LC. He's also using an HTPC, though I suspect most with standalone HD scalers could try that too.
900P? hmm, that exactly half-way between 720 and 1080. Sounds really interesting at 900 x 1600 for 1.77 aspect ratio
Jim makes an interesting point too though, I will have to try 1080P again with the new Moome 1.3-V2 card.
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Spanky Ham wrote:
Crabb,
I am curious about something. Before Scott told people they could run 1080p on 8" pjs no one really did it and stuck with 720p and 1080i. Would you have went digital already if you were stuck at these resolutions? I wonder how many people went digital because they were unaware that they could do higher resolutions.
that argument raged for years even Scott and many others posted proof with test patterns. I doubt 1080P is why those who switched did so, I think many of them did for other reasons with CIH being one of the few that made sense.[/quote]

That is probably part of it, but Curt has mentioned that a lot of his customers don't peruse the forums. If someone bought a CRT four years ago or longer, then that person may not have been aware of the ability to do 1080p. A lot of people (including a lot of experts) were militant on 8" not being able to do 1080p.


HighDefDude wrote:
You are so right with you first post Jim,

I also wondered if the top CRT's still could compete withe the high-end digital world. Apart from the stabillity and over-the-years performance of CRT's, image quality tsill is superb with a good setup..

A few days ago, someone wrote he bought a JVC HD950, which, according to him, was an upgrade over the BG1209/2 he used till then.. I was tempted to write to him: How much effort did you take to properly setup the 1209 ??
On a later note, his 1209 was not color filtered and had visible wear on green.. So in his case he was propably right calling the JVC an upgrade..

I still use a perfectly color corrected BG 1209 with no wear at all.. And all that come over to watch films, friends, collegues, family, say that they never have seen an image that clean, rich of contrast, color-real, and transparent !

Edit: I see you guyzz talk about resolutions of 1080i, 1080p and 720p.. Ever considered 900p ?? I use an HTPC at 1600x900p with very satisfying results..

I'm sure I'll stick with CRT for many years to come !!


Happy newyear to you all !!


HDD.


Deja Vu has a G90 and a 1080p LCD(gasp). He has mentioned that he prefers his digital for a lot of stuff that he watches. As much as I love CRT, I would move to the JVC (if it was inexpensive) and I could see how others would as well. We are in the first generation of LED dlp and that could be a move that a lot of people make when it comes down in price and improves in quality.

As for resolutions, everyone should experiment to see what they like. I know one G90 owner who thought that the difference between his XG135LC at 1440x960 and his G90 at 1080 wasn't that great. I think at the very least everyone with 8" and above should try 1920x810p for widescreen, as there is no use in wasting bandwidth on unused picture.
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