CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Curt Palme]

OK, response to posts after my last response..

As for the site and forum, there's zero danger of it shutting down. In fact, it's in my (and others) best interest to keep it alive and well. So no worries there.

Extended warranty- I might try that, I'll have to check pricing. I know if a set isn't damaged in shipping (REALLY) rare these days, no question that I don't hear from the vast majority of people for a few years. Recently I'd say 5 people got a hold of me that bought sets 5-8 years ago. two were HDMI inquiries, two were breakdowns, and one wanted to sell me his Barco 800.

KM- you're my best Australian customer! I'd say about 20% of my sales of parts and sets are outside of North America. I get a lot of 'it's too expensive to send the board to you for repair', until people find that there's no one out there that will repair them, then they are usually surprised how cheap and fast it really is. Also, given the pricing that CRT projectors are more expensive down under and in Europe, even with a $400-800 shipping cost, it's cheaper to buy from me, so that's never been a deterrent. Also, the dropping USD has helped things..

Chip- your first sentence is pretty much what I'm doing, and am going to continue to do. Let me throw this out: If I dropped the price of a mint 9500LC Ultra from the current $7500 to $5K, would it really result in a rush of sales? Ditto for any other set? I'd say probably not. AS I said before, the last thing I want to do is cut corners in testing/repairing/upgrading because I'm not making money on a set that someone is paying a premium for in the first place, or at least that's what they are expecting when someone buys from me.

MIke- I always like talking to you, as we're cut from the same cloth, ditto for a select other guys here.

What I've found is that most industrial clients have found me via the internet, word of mouth, or eBay. If you google 'CRT projector', this site is in the top three hits, ditto for any brand name of CRT projector. Can't ask for more than that. A surprisingly high number of inquires come through eBay, because let's face it, regardless of whether you're an industrial customer or HT CRT owner, if you can't get local assistance, then you go to eBay to see what you can find. That's why I'm running those 'CRT service, parts and repairs' ads on eBay, I get at least one email a week from those.

Being Canadian, it's hard to market myself to say flight simulator companies, as I don't have the first clue how to get a mailing list for those people. Again, many of them know of you and I, and the really nice thing about the CRT community is save for the rare flake, we all complement each other and send customers to each other if we can't assist ourselves. Can't ask for better than that.

Now, I'm not sure that I need a second site or a second forum. From my experience, the few guys that maintain CRT projectors aren't here to chat, they have a planetarium that's down or a flight simulator that needs servicing, and I don't see that they will spend a lot of time hanging on a forum. All they need to know is that someone is out there that can repair their boards or sell them parts. THe only specific customer that I remember NOT sending to this forum is a very conservative Christian that had several CRTs in his church, and I was told by the person that sent him to me to be very prim and proper. THe main website is all prim and proper, but in a casual way. That's the way I write text. Sure, I could get in a pro photographer and Photoshop guy that could clean up a bunch of the pix, but I can't see that those changes would bring in more customers. This site is one of the only ones that gives as much techy info as I do, and most of the pix and stuff on the main site is pretty clear.

Of the 6277(!) members here, I'd say that 80% are here due to HDMI issues/questions/Fury/Moome. I agree, some posts that are OT push the envelope, but again, removing those isn't going to increase by business. The pro guys that I deal with probably won't come here unless they ask something that I can't answer, then I direct them here. Despite the few objectionable posts, there's a pile of good people here with a wealth of knowledge. Just my opinion. Again, once I get a pro audio forum going, THAT, I will keep a bit more pro.

Verge- shipping from me to you should be $200 tops. $500 is way overquoted. Just FYI.

Sparky, just FYI, I have zero issues with customer # 1. I'd say most of the regulars here are in that group. Piles of good info come from those, and I completely agree as well, there's far more to CRT than tweaking every time you watch a set. I remind myself of that every time I watch my own HT, and I turn it on.. and fall asleep in 15 minutes.

Mac- it has been tempting to do a board dissection analysis for every board in every set... and charge a hefty entry fee to that section of the site, say $200 a year. It would allow the casual tech that can solder to pretty much service any board himself. The time to put such a site up would take me away from life completely, and I don't know how many would pay that anyways. It sure would come in handy if I fell under a bus though.

Chip, your last post doesn't offend me, but is wrong. MANY large corporate customers rely on me to supply parts and service, and most know I'm a 1 man show. Mike is in the same boat, as is Tinman, who deals with the broadcast industry. That's where I think the business model in general changed say 20 years ago. I found that in the sound industry people simply don't go visit large showrooms any more, which ended up with me ditching 1/2 my staff and my commercial $2K a month building in 1995 or so. We moved into working from home, and in 2000 did about $1 mil in business, CRT and sound stuff combined. No one questioned WHERE we worked from, it was all about 'can we provide what the customer needs in the time frame that they need it in', and that's what I do today.

FYI, the competition laughed at me when we moved to working from home. They stopped laughing when we didn't reduce our pricing, but ran a tighter ship with the lower overhead, and the fact that we actually doubled our business and then some from when we were in an industrial building with a tiny showroom (that no one visited) for the previous 8 years.

Mike's last post above is prudent. I am pretty diverse when it comes to repairs, maybe not quite as much as Macguyver, but I've marveled how Mac is able to repair flat screens via posts here. Effing amazing, but no different if you've worked on several thousand (100?) as he has. I've worked on.... one... that I couldn't get repaired, even with his help.

I can however work on reel to reels, vintage audio (tube) equipment), fish shockers (used to count and tag fish in the wilds of BC), digital taxicab meters, and McDonald's headset equipment. Go figure.

Heck, I could put up a website almost as large as this one about reel to reel repairs with the amount of decks out there, and that would also supplement my income. But.. the money and passion outside of CRT projectors is in pro audio.

Having spent a couple of days thinking about posts here, I don't think I'll change much frankly. I will work on the sound website over the holidays, might have something presentable early next year (Zaphod, email to follow shortly!), and will weed out some more ES stuff and will clean the shop/parts area soon. I actually want to shut down roughly from the 20th to the end of the year (relax, I'll still answer emails and do repairs, but I've got the funds now to coast a bit), and get some of the routing cleaning/throwing out/eBaying stuff during that time.

Thanks again for the input, I'll keep reading and tweaking my train of thought.

[Curt Palme]

OK, response to posts after my last response..

As for the site and forum, there's zero danger of it shutting down. In fact, it's in my (and others) best interest to keep it alive and well. So no worries there.

Extended warranty- I might try that, I'll have to check pricing. I know if a set isn't damaged in shipping (REALLY) rare these days, no question that I don't hear from the vast majority of people for a few years. Recently I'd say 5 people got a hold of me that bought sets 5-8 years ago. two were HDMI inquiries, two were breakdowns, and one wanted to sell me his Barco 800.

KM- you're my best Australian customer! I'd say about 20% of my sales of parts and sets are outside of North America. I get a lot of 'it's too expensive to send the board to you for repair', until people find that there's no one out there that will repair them, then they are usually surprised how cheap and fast it really is. Also, given the pricing that CRT projectors are more expensive down under and in Europe, even with a $400-800 shipping cost, it's cheaper to buy from me, so that's never been a deterrent. Also, the dropping USD has helped things..

Chip- your first sentence is pretty much what I'm doing, and am going to continue to do. Let me throw this out: If I dropped the price of a mint 9500LC Ultra from the current $7500 to $5K, would it really result in a rush of sales? Ditto for any other set? I'd say probably not. AS I said before, the last thing I want to do is cut corners in testing/repairing/upgrading because I'm not making money on a set that someone is paying a premium for in the first place, or at least that's what they are expecting when someone buys from me.

MIke- I always like talking to you, as we're cut from the same cloth, ditto for a select other guys here.

What I've found is that most industrial clients have found me via the internet, word of mouth, or eBay. If you google 'CRT projector', this site is in the top three hits, ditto for any brand name of CRT projector. Can't ask for more than that. A surprisingly high number of inquires come through eBay, because let's face it, regardless of whether you're an industrial customer or HT CRT owner, if you can't get local assistance, then you go to eBay to see what you can find. That's why I'm running those 'CRT service, parts and repairs' ads on eBay, I get at least one email a week from those.

Being Canadian, it's hard to market myself to say flight simulator companies, as I don't have the first clue how to get a mailing list for those people. Again, many of them know of you and I, and the really nice thing about the CRT community is save for the rare flake, we all complement each other and send customers to each other if we can't assist ourselves. Can't ask for better than that.

Now, I'm not sure that I need a second site or a second forum. From my experience, the few guys that maintain CRT projectors aren't here to chat, they have a planetarium that's down or a flight simulator that needs servicing, and I don't see that they will spend a lot of time hanging on a forum. All they need to know is that someone is out there that can repair their boards or sell them parts. THe only specific customer that I remember NOT sending to this forum is a very conservative Christian that had several CRTs in his church, and I was told by the person that sent him to me to be very prim and proper. THe main website is all prim and proper, but in a casual way. That's the way I write text. Sure, I could get in a pro photographer and Photoshop guy that could clean up a bunch of the pix, but I can't see that those changes would bring in more customers. This site is one of the only ones that gives as much techy info as I do, and most of the pix and stuff on the main site is pretty clear.

Of the 6277(!) members here, I'd say that 80% are here due to HDMI issues/questions/Fury/Moome. I agree, some posts that are OT push the envelope, but again, removing those isn't going to increase by business. The pro guys that I deal with probably won't come here unless they ask something that I can't answer, then I direct them here. Despite the few objectionable posts, there's a pile of good people here with a wealth of knowledge. Just my opinion. Again, once I get a pro audio forum going, THAT, I will keep a bit more pro.

Verge- shipping from me to you should be $200 tops. $500 is way overquoted. Just FYI.

Sparky, just FYI, I have zero issues with customer # 1. I'd say most of the regulars here are in that group. Piles of good info come from those, and I completely agree as well, there's far more to CRT than tweaking every time you watch a set. I remind myself of that every time I watch my own HT, and I turn it on.. and fall asleep in 15 minutes.

Mac- it has been tempting to do a board dissection analysis for every board in every set... and charge a hefty entry fee to that section of the site, say $200 a year. It would allow the casual tech that can solder to pretty much service any board himself. The time to put such a site up would take me away from life completely, and I don't know how many would pay that anyways. It sure would come in handy if I fell under a bus though.

Chip, your last post doesn't offend me, but is wrong. MANY large corporate customers rely on me to supply parts and service, and most know I'm a 1 man show. Mike is in the same boat, as is Tinman, who deals with the broadcast industry. That's where I think the business model in general changed say 20 years ago. I found that in the sound industry people simply don't go visit large showrooms any more, which ended up with me ditching 1/2 my staff and my commercial $2K a month building in 1995 or so. We moved into working from home, and in 2000 did about $1 mil in business, CRT and sound stuff combined. No one questioned WHERE we worked from, it was all about 'can we provide what the customer needs in the time frame that they need it in', and that's what I do today.

FYI, the competition laughed at me when we moved to working from home. They stopped laughing when we didn't reduce our pricing, but ran a tighter ship with the lower overhead, and the fact that we actually doubled our business and then some from when we were in an industrial building with a tiny showroom (that no one visited) for the previous 8 years.

Mike's last post above is prudent. I am pretty diverse when it comes to repairs, maybe not quite as much as Macguyver, but I've marveled how Mac is able to repair flat screens via posts here. Effing amazing, but no different if you've worked on several thousand (100?) as he has. I've worked on.... one... that I couldn't get repaired, even with his help.

I can however work on reel to reels, vintage audio (tube) equipment), fish shockers (used to count and tag fish in the wilds of BC), digital taxicab meters, and McDonald's headset equipment. Go figure.

Heck, I could put up a website almost as large as this one about reel to reel repairs with the amount of decks out there, and that would also supplement my income. But.. the money and passion outside of CRT projectors is in pro audio.

Having spent a couple of days thinking about posts here, I don't think I'll change much frankly. I will work on the sound website over the holidays, might have something presentable early next year (Zaphod, email to follow shortly!), and will weed out some more ES stuff and will clean the shop/parts area soon. I actually want to shut down roughly from the 20th to the end of the year (relax, I'll still answer emails and do repairs, but I've got the funds now to coast a bit), and get some of the routing cleaning/throwing out/eBaying stuff during that time.

Thanks again for the input, I'll keep reading and tweaking my train of thought.

[Person99]

After reading Chip and Mike's post, I must say, they have dissuaded me from any optimism to try to keep the HT market alive for any longer. I think Mike's last post is probably the best advice in this whole thread.

As an aside, have to disagree with you Spanky, if I had to come up with an analogy for this forum, I'd say "trailer park"--it is the main reason why I only come here in little bursts. I like some of the folks, but after a week or two I ask myself, "do I really want to hang out in a trailer park?"

[Curt Palme]

Dave, I'll counter that by saying that I think you're in the minority. It's like radio or TV, if you don't like a station, don't tune in. Each post here has a title that says what it's about. If you don't want to read politics (which I don't), I don't click on the thread.

I'm guessing you do click on them, get pissed, but not before posting your opinion on said thread, then get pissed off, and retreat.

I found myself doing the same thing with Craigslist, and actually tried to reason with some of the cretins there, and finally realized I can't make any difference whatsoever.

I'm not saying anyone here is a cretin, but I'm sure not going to change their mind with a counter post or two. It's like the exchange i had with the avs forum guy about CRT pricing. I still think the guy is way off base, but after bouncing around his posts for a bit, I saw his side, at least a bit of it, which is why I posted here.

[Curt Palme]

Dave, I'll counter that by saying that I think you're in the minority. It's like radio or TV, if you don't like a station, don't tune in. Each post here has a title that says what it's about. If you don't want to read politics (which I don't), I don't click on the thread.

I'm guessing you do click on them, get pissed, but not before posting your opinion on said thread, then get pissed off, and retreat.

I found myself doing the same thing with Craigslist, and actually tried to reason with some of the cretins there, and finally realized I can't make any difference whatsoever.

I'm not saying anyone here is a cretin, but I'm sure not going to change their mind with a counter post or two. It's like the exchange i had with the avs forum guy about CRT pricing. I still think the guy is way off base, but after bouncing around his posts for a bit, I saw his side, at least a bit of it, which is why I posted here.

[Person99]

[Esel]

Much of the postings here are right but there are three points that i see for you as a chance to get all you want:

1. Stay in business with CRTs but reduced to repair parts with extended warranty and sets you found worth to sell and repair
Offering CRTs in the future won't be a major part of your business that will throw out enough but you're enjoing it ans it keeps the status alive, so keep it
It's like the trading with good old amps and stuff....
If some time all the others have done what you are thinking about now you will be the source for all CRT users.
There will be users buying CRTs all the time but fewer with the money and the will to stend it for their "precious"
Now comes the digital break even but after this rush you can be the oasis in the desert. Thats the point you'll set the price for water.
So hold your breath...

2. Expanding business. You have a Forum and a reputation in HT-Stuff. Think about selling stuff like BR, collectibles etc.

3. Always do what you enjoy. Who needs all the bucks if he have no fun with his job

br
Andreas
probably future-customer

[wowchad]

I'm too new here to weigh in much on this BUT I found Curt through eBay, (what can I say, I'm a sucker for a deal.)

After finding this site and getting all excited about the perks of CRT (not to mention the current low low prices of 20-30k hi end projectors) I tried to turn my father onto the CRT side (vs the digital he was looking at.) He took one look at the CRT primer and said that's its outdated, claimed it to be written years ago. So the one thing you may want to do, even though not much has changed, is to post something like "UPDATED DEC 2009" or something to that effect on every page. That's just my .02 from the little I've dealt with your site. Chad

[Curt Palme]

Thanks Chad, good advice!

[Curt Palme]

Thanks Chad, good advice!

[Nashou66]

Thats true Chad and Curt maybe you can add to it all the calls you get about fixing Digtal's and how its near impossible to.

Athanasios

[tri_joel]

I didn't read all of the posts, so this may have been mentioned already. I would buy from Curt if it didn't cost so much to ship to the east coast. I would gladly give up a warranty and pay Curt for repairs to offset the shipping costs. I think Curt's prices are reasonable for the product you get for the money. If I could get an XG shipped to my house for $2500 with good tubes and no warranty I would be jumping for joy. Especially since I know Curt has been through it and a warranty claim is relatively unlikely. I would gladly pay to ship a board or two off to Curt for repair instead of paying for a warranty.

[Curt Palme]

[Curt Palme]

[digitalayon]

Curt-

One more thing....third party prices for items need to come down.....Alot!!!!! for example....200 bucks for three pieces of metal(hd-145 adapters) I don't care what they do....I still see three pieces of metal COSTING ALOT!!!!....Same with the HDFURY....But that one is on borrowed time anyway. I spoke with developer from nvidia a few days ago at a tech conference. He said they know about HDFury and others like them. The are working on a software update that will add that capability to any newer nvidia card for free. They were boasting what a newer HTPC will be doing for any TV and their format conversions. But prices need to come down a ton if you want to sell more projectors. But then again it will take a wack on the head for some. I believe nvidia will rip the converter devices to the bone. I showed the 1208s to my friend who works a cnc metal mill and then showed him the converters that joust makes....he said he can make the same converters as the joust ones for less than 5 bucks a piece.

[Nashou66]

[AnalogRocks]

[AnalogRocks]

[wallace123456]

[digitalayon]

good points....as for nvidia I still have yet to know what they are doing on a full scale.....and all my friend did with the 1208 is measure holes on both projectors lens sizes. He then mapped it on his solid works station and input the info to the computer that controls the mill and there you go. But he also wasn't using aluminum. He was talking 15 gage steel to where it could eventually be punched with a punch press. And don't get me wrong. I do see the value to these things. I'm just saying that some people can get scared with these mods because of the prices added to make their projector work. And I'm not telling Curt to do anything regarding the vendors. All I am simply saying is that curt should push his projectors on another site and have the recommended vender options tailored to the projector being offered and have them offered in different packages to where he won't lose his shirt and the buyer will not be so scared to purchase one. You guys missed my point. Or maybe I didn't come across the way I meant. But the options for each projector add on/third party need to be with each listed projector he wants to sell. that way no one would be as scared. because right now a person buying like my friend was looking at earlier just got confused and more confused not by the projector but what else he might need and he did not see the value as you or me do.

[digitalayon]

Hey Nashou66-

three grand for the molds?!?!.....that's actually a good bargain. Molds are not cheap. Is the rubber extruded into the mold or are they injection molded from a machine?

[the_maniac]

i'm also going to give a comment on this thread, especially on prices of crt's

i'm from germany and owning an NEC 9PG that i bought in mint condition for 100€ on ebay, and one Barco Data 808s that i bought with worn tubes (don't knew this) also for 100€ on ebay. i retubed it with pretty good tubes for 125€ so i paid ~250€ for a good set.

none of the members of our german projector community have paid more than 500€ for their 8" EM sets (non LC).

and really good 9"LC is about 1000€ on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230382157380)

so want i want to say is crt's have become really cheap in germany and i think the prices are fair.

i wouldn't consider pay more than 1500€ for a mint 9500LC, because you get f.e. an JVC DLA-HD1 for 2000€ which can easily compete with high end CRT's.

[Nashou66]

[emdawgz1]

[Zebu Fellenz]