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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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I've blacked out the whole house too.
I was pissfarting around with an Xtra powersupply and touched the wrong thing with the multimeter probe and the safety switch/RCD tripped and turned the whole house off....
...And my wife was watching a movie at the time. The Xtra didn't spot burn, but my wife did think I was dead 
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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As Mike indicated, that glue is to keep the transistors from flapping in the wind and causing either lead failure or solder joint failure. The attaches the component to the heatsink which is firmly mounting to the board, relieving any stress a shock or vibration may cause to the component. In other words, completely mechanical, but necesssary when you have components this far off the board. The only thing better is screw mounting the body to the heatsink, which is what you find in most power supplies today.
My two cents, being an engineer of electronics that need to withstand 200 degrees celsius and 12 G shock ratings...
Paul
_________________
~Paul
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Now, I would not use glue in my designs as rigidity is my friend and glue can't give me that, but this should be fine in a device that most of it's life will be totally still. Key is not allowing the body of the component to "flap in the wind", as you will see lead failure either that the body of the component from work-hardening, or at the solder joint itself over time, which I think Mike was elluding to.
_________________
~Paul
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HK-Steve
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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PaulB,
Ha Ha very funny, Swiss Arm Knife,
You do know I am in Switzerland don't you, or do we have to settle this in the pub over Pints  Many Pints
I do find the Switch Blade knife also very good for this, the spring blade can cause you to loose a finger or 2 
You have some interesting caps installed, the orange ones at the edge connector, what type are those?? MKT??
Have you done the 6.35v mod yot?? it doesn't look like it??
There was so much glue on some of the caps and heatsinks, the jack hammer blew up, the leaf blower fried itself, and the vicegrips are now blunt. Man that glue is tough.
Fingernails, I just painted then so I don't want to chip them 
Athanasios and Tom,
No Beer and No HDTV make Steve go Crazy,
No Beer and No HDTV make Steve go Crazy,
No Beer and No HDTV make Steve go Crazy,
No Beer and No HDTV make Steve go Crazy,
Takes one to know one
tse, (Scott)
There is no thermal compound on the 3x transitors, that is part of the breakdown of the tape.
It peeled away a layer of the tape, that is the dis-coloration.
It was on the 2x small transitors which mount directly to the heatsink, but that is stock OEM install.
Thermal compund does have it's advantages, but at these voltages, it does breakdown way to easily.
Especially when the transistor and mounting bolts MUST be isolated from ground.
Appreciate your comments as always.
Mark_A_W,
The Wife was not even home to say the line, "What have you done THIS TIME"
You don't need to do anything else it looks GREAT.
My reply, "But I could see ---------" I am cut off
Wife, "JUST WATCH THE MOVIE WILL YOU  "
OK, Ces (my Wife) is not that bad, but it is what she is thinking 
Sparky015 (Paul)
I do agree with you in regards to the stability or movement with transistor and inductors, BUT
when there is no point for stability other than a heap of glue in the middle of the heatsink, not touching the circuit board or any other component to stabilize the heatsink and transistor, seems like overkill with glue.
I will post a couple of other pics tomorrow of what I am talking about.
What do you work on that has to withstand 200 degrees celsius and 12 G shock ratings?????
Appreciate your comments.
Cheers
Steve
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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HK-Steve
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Athanasios,
On top as always, Thanks for the reminder, I knew I had seen it somewhere before.
How was Last night????????????????????????????
Stop burning those caps with your soldering iron 
Cheers
Steve
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| HK-Steve wrote: | Athanasios,
On top as always, Thanks for the reminder, I knew I had seen it somewhere before.
How was Last night????????????????????????????
I ended up going to the Psychedelic Furrs concert with a friend they rocked!!!! happy mondays opened and before them a local band I really liked called We are Spirts, Cool sound
PaulB,
Stop burning those caps with your soldering iron
That is Actually my Poswersupply
Cheers
Steve |
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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HK-Steve
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Man you are quick,
I had to edit my post, Sorry PaulB, but you still replied before the 30 sec that I posted it, then edited it.
Now, stop having such a good time.
I have the housework to do and 4 loads of washing
Cheers
Steve
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Beer should be next on the list !
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PaulB
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 359
Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| HK-Steve wrote: | PaulB,
Ha Ha very funny, Swiss Army Knife,
You do know I am in Switzerland don't you, or do we have to settle this in the pub over Pints Many Pints
Cheers
Steve |
No, no, seriously, I've had a Swiss Army knife (not the same one ) for about 30 years since my Army days (Parachute Regiment). I'm NEVER without it. Its the best, most useful bit of kit I've ever had. It gets used on pretty much a daily basis, even if its only the Toothpick! Way better than a Leatherman in my mind.
I didn't mean it as a bad joke or anything, quite the opposite if anything - no harm intended my friend! Delighted to stettle this over a beer or twenty
Yep, same Wima's on the LVPS as Nash's, he leads, I follow!
EDIT Yes, the 6.35 mod has been done. Thats a new trimmer pot and the resistor is underneath the board.
_________________
Paul
Last edited by PaulB on Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HK-Steve
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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PaulB,
It was suppose to be a joke,
I am not that good a writing them down, so lost in translation I think
But would definately like to catch up for those beers.
Cheers
Steve
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| HK-Steve wrote: |
Sparky015 (Paul)
I do agree with you in regards to the stability or movement with transistor and inductors, BUT
when there is no point for stability other than a heap of glue in the middle of the heatsink, not touching the circuit board or any other component to stabilize the heatsink and transistor, seems like overkill with glue.
I will post a couple of other pics tomorrow of what I am talking about.
What do you work on that has to withstand 200 degrees celsius and 12 G shock ratings?????
Appreciate your comments.
Cheers
Steve |
Steve,
My day job is designing electronics that go on drill strings for oil and gas drilling. I have to take standard 85C-105C rated components and make them handle 175C-200C temperatures for a minimum 1000 hours, and handle 12G shocks since they will be mounted 30 feet behind a drill bit. It allows the driller to directional drill (one of the reasons natural gas prices are so low-directional drilling has allowed for better producing wells), as well as tell the driller what the formation is and if oil/gas is present. Cool stuff.
I have yet to modify my LVPS (other than a fan mod and a thorough cleaning). For those who have modified the filter section to Scott's point, have you seen a difference in stability of the output voltages, and has that translated to the picture?
Paul
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HK-Steve
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Paul,
You certainly have a nice job there.
I have modified my LVPS a lot more than most here, possibly my projector also.
There is a BIG improvement in the image and stability of the projector.
Noise is reduced by a BIG margin and image improves by the same margin. Win Win
Cheers
Steve
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: |
I have yet to modify my LVPS (other than a fan mod and a thorough cleaning). For those who have modified the filter section to Scott's point, have you seen a difference in stability of the output voltages, and has that translated to the picture?
Paul |
Try it!
here's what to do, first try the section Scott mentioned... then check the image. But in checking the image and being an engineer. use the test patterns on DVE or another source.
When doing the section that Scott mentioned, IF your projector has high hours, you may notice a difference in the test patterns.
From there, change out the other section and then get back to us and let us know what you have observed.
I would really like to know what you found from your perspective. What Scott said is exactly what I've been saying on these forums for years, and that's why I've never changed out the other caps UNLESS one has leaked from VERY high hour usage. But I've never changed out all the caps in the LVPS. And I have two HIGH bandwidth Marquees here, that I've never saw a need to change out those caps (as Scott mentioned).
Now, considering stability. Well, I repair these supplies (commercially) and have been doing so for a many years. There's a strong possibility that some of the caps would leak in that other section. And when that happens it's only noticed when sweeping the supplies outputs, but I've never seen it effect an image. And for that reason, that's why I suggested to Dragenm to do these upgrades. I think if you're dear to your Marquee, it may be wise to have some caps replaced.
Those supplies are very robust and well designed. Some of them had special high frequency caps in that section that Scott mentioned, but they later stopped using special caps and went with Nichicon's. Not sure if it was a cost thing or not, but there was a change. And when comparing the LVPS with the expensive caps to the ones that have the cheaper caps, there's no difference when measuring with scope or spectrum analyzer.
The KEY to image improvement from noise in the Marquee is "De-Coupling" and 75% of the decoupling needed to improve the image, has nothing to do with the LVPS.
Check this out. The video chain in a well functioning stock Marquee has the highest bandwidth video chain of all the well known CRT projectors. However, because of the noise floor in the marquee, it's not going to be easy to get that same Marquee to resolve that bandwidth. In order to paint good pixels at higher bandwidth, the signal needs to be clean. And most think the real noise problem is coming from the LVPS, but it's not. The low frequencies generated from the LVPS does very little to effect the higher frequency necessary for the higher bandwidth. on the other hand, the Control module and it's CPU's and other digital stuff, puts a ton of HF crap directly into the video chain. This crap.. I mean noise is very hard to track down. You'll need high bandwidth (VERY fast) scopes or spectrum analyzers to track it. And the method to lower it is "decoupling" - which is an art within itself..
I'll be getting into this some time later on another forum here.
here are a few decoupling mods. here, I'm showing 7 of the 24 inductors that I install on a VIM:
My personal VIM has 37 inductors... And the board in the image is missing some of the inductors because it's a test VIM that's in the process. the very large caps are LOW ESR Panasonics. They're being used here because of the work I'm doing to the Clamping stage. That board has a different Op amp than the TL071C, I'm going with adjustable pedestals on this board for a more precise pedestal alignment.
Oh, and U21 has been removed....
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Mike, I knew I was behind the curve on getting my Marquee ready for 1080p, but didn't realize this far!  You've done quite a bit to the VIM! I was on the fence if an up-to-date VIM could do a good 1080p or 1080i picture, now I'm thinking not so much if there is that much noise present.
I have recapped the projector as far as all the boards are concerned (minus the CLM and VIM). I found some out of spec, but most in spec. My PJ had it's memory corrupted when I picked it up from a university auction, so I was flying blind initially. Mostly for ease of mind, I went ahead and re-capped it just so I could say I had a new starting point to measure hours, and then reset the hour meter since it has new tubes in it and the hours showing were clearly wrong at 75 million hours. I've also done all the tech bulletins to it to get it up-to-date. To tell you the truth, I saw a bigger improvement out of the Dot and line fix bulletins than I did recapping the projector. Not surprising since the majority of caps I pulled and measured were within spec. Makes me feel better that the PJ was most likely a lower hour machine and not run 24 hours a day.
Anyway, I don't have an analyzer at home, but I do have a pretty nice Tektronix 200Mhz digital storage scope. I will do the LVPS and measure as I go and report back. I don't have a setup to test and decouple boards though. 
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | Thanks Mike, I knew I was behind the curve on getting my Marquee ready for 1080p, but didn't realize this far! You've done quite a bit to the VIM! I was on the fence if an up-to-date VIM could do a good 1080p or 1080i picture, now I'm thinking not so much if there is that much noise present.
I have recapped the projector as far as all the boards are concerned (minus the CLM and VIM). I found some out of spec, but most in spec. My PJ had it's memory corrupted when I picked it up from a university auction, so I was flying blind initially. Mostly for ease of mind, I went ahead and re-capped it just so I could say I had a new starting point to measure hours, and then reset the hour meter since it has new tubes in it and the hours showing were clearly wrong at 75 million hours. I've also done all the tech bulletins to it to get it up-to-date. To tell you the truth, I saw a bigger improvement out of the Dot and line fix bulletins than I did recapping the projector. Not surprising since the majority of caps I pulled and measured were within spec. Makes me feel better that the PJ was most likely a lower hour machine and not run 24 hours a day.
Anyway, I don't have an analyzer at home,but I do have a pretty nice Tektronix 200Mhz digital storage scope. I will do the LVPS and measure as I go and report back. I don't have a setup to test and decouple boards though. |
That 200mhz Tektronix should do very well..
The LVPS was made by Microenergy. That company designed and made Industrial grade power supplies. And to have seen and serviced so many of them that were being used in Marquee's with some of the highest hours expected from a power supply, they somehow maintained voltage and noise performance very well. I've always been amazed by them. And it's rare that one would fail.
One of the many things I like about them is that they use a ton of inductors. And they use those large expensive inductors.
The oscillator or PWM sections in the supplies almost never fail. And that's very unusual for switching power supplies that live long hours.
Now, there's a few caps in there that you should always change out. The ones on the 85v rails (33. 100) are a MUST.
Very robust and extremely stable power supply!
Post back your findings and let's see what you come up with.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Sparky015 wrote: | Thanks Mike, I knew I was behind the curve on getting my Marquee ready for 1080p, but didn't realize this far! You've done quite a bit to the VIM! I was on the fence if an up-to-date VIM could do a good 1080p or 1080i picture, now I'm thinking not so much if there is that much noise present.
I have recapped the projector as far as all the boards are concerned (minus the CLM and VIM). I found some out of spec, but most in spec. My PJ had it's memory corrupted when I picked it up from a university auction, so I was flying blind initially. Mostly for ease of mind, I went ahead and re-capped it just so I could say I had a new starting point to measure hours, and then reset the hour meter since it has new tubes in it and the hours showing were clearly wrong at 75 million hours. I've also done all the tech bulletins to it to get it up-to-date. To tell you the truth, I saw a bigger improvement out of the Dot and line fix bulletins than I did recapping the projector. Not surprising since the majority of caps I pulled and measured were within spec. Makes me feel better that the PJ was most likely a lower hour machine and not run 24 hours a day.
Anyway, I don't have an analyzer at home, but I do have a pretty nice Tektronix 200Mhz digital storage scope. I will do the LVPS and measure as I go and report back. I don't have a setup to test and decouple boards though. |
Sparky there are a bunch of resistors on the CVA and VDM that will also stabilize the PJ's image a lot and allow for proper placement of the scan lines, do the CVA especially Mike Was the first to mention this years ago. one test he does to show this is to take a can of compressed air after the PJ is warmed up and spray it right on the resistors of topic, the convergence jumps, proving that these heat up and drift. a larger more robust resistor is needed there.
Resistor upgrade
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Sparky015
Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 1185
Location: Cleveland / Akron, OH
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Nash. I did do this. I didn't mention that above, but I did do the the resistor upgrade, as well as the anamorphic squeeze mod. I did notice a much more stable projector as far as convergence goes after doing this. As I'm working on the projector, I've been unplugging it since it's on a cart in my shop so I've been going totally cold to full on, and before I started, I noticed a convergence drift when first powering the pj on. Now it's rock solid at power on. I was a bit surprised at this given the originals were metal film. That one was a nice learning experience.
The rest of that thread really got into hot rodding, and before I started there, I wanted to build up a test setup so that I could start probing with a scope as I go. I haven't gotten that far, but this week I'm going to start with the LVPS. That's at least an easy one I can do on the bench outside of the pj with scope without having to have a test rig. I'm a bit jealous of you guys that have more than one pj to play around with! Heck, I don't even have an extra set of boards!
Paul
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I have a bunch of boards here, most in triplicate, I could have ready incase something goes wrong. And now that I have the Two LongBow ultras I am hesitant to do any work on them as I would need a complete set of ultra boards on hand for that very reason you want them. But finding 2004 built ultra boards is difficult.
Your not too far away from me, maybe one day we could meet up and have a marquee discussion.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Revox
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Hi, i put some inductors of an old Motherboard in the +-15V and +-5V Line (don't know the Induktivity but might be better than nothing?) and added Panasonic FC cabs (but only 47uF in addition to the Tantal).
As i can see in the service Manual, each opamp has got a Lowpassfilter with 4,7Ohm and 100nF.
Do you think it is a good idea to change all of the 4,7Ohm resistor with a SMD inductor with 3R and 0,68uH (140ma).
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