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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I tried tapping the neck but I did not knock it very hard because I was fearful of breaking the glass.
I was only aware of (1) G2 card but I will try that card again next time the projector has cooled down (projector is actually operating right now to type this post). I do know that I did swap out the G2 earlier but that was in pursuit of the first issue and I believe the projector was already warm. So I could not have been able to isolate whether it could have fixed or did not fix the blue startup issue.
I also do own a tube rejuvenator, however it is designed for obselete picture tubes and most likely not suitable for burning off a crt cathode.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: | Yes, I tried tapping the neck but I did not knock it very hard because I was fearful of breaking the glass.
I was only aware of (1) G2 card but I will try that card again next time the projector has cooled down (projector is actually operating right now to type this post). I do know that I did swap out the G2 earlier but that was in pursuit of the first issue and I believe the projector was already warm. So I could not have been able to isolate whether it could have fixed or did not fix the blue startup issue.
I also do own a tube rejuvenator, however it is designed for obselete picture tubes and most likely not suitable for burning off a crt cathode. |
This is the G2 diagnostic board that I was referring to... http://www.curtpalme.com/Barco1208_Layout2.shtm
I would like to see you try swapping this board (if you have a spare) before messing with the tube any more. It would be odd for a tube to be consistently intermittent. Of course not impossible. It would just be better to confirm its not the board. 
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:16 am Post subject: |
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Would it do this if the focus wires were disconnected? I have a #762120 board like that if you want to try it.
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | RVonse wrote: | Yes, I tried tapping the neck but I did not knock it very hard because I was fearful of breaking the glass.
I was only aware of (1) G2 card but I will try that card again next time the projector has cooled down (projector is actually operating right now to type this post). I do know that I did swap out the G2 earlier but that was in pursuit of the first issue and I believe the projector was already warm. So I could not have been able to isolate whether it could have fixed or did not fix the blue startup issue.
I also do own a tube rejuvenator, however it is designed for obselete picture tubes and most likely not suitable for burning off a crt cathode. |
This is the G2 diagnostic board that I was referring to... http://www.curtpalme.com/Barco1208_Layout2.shtm
I would like to see you try swapping this board (if you have a spare) before messing with the tube any more. It would be odd for a tube to be consistently intermittent. Of course not impossible. It would just be better to confirm its not the board. |
Ok, this morning after I got up everything was cold so I replaced the G2 card. Unfortunately, did not help. 
Here is what I always get on power up:
1. I hear the high voltage crackle (normal)
2. I start seeing the windows desktop (normal)
3. Then I start seeing what looks like abnormal high blue G2 an instant later. As though someone cranked the G2 all the way.
4. I start to get what sounds like static discharges that coincide with ultra bright blue raster flashes.
5. So much blue during each pop that sometimes high voltage can't keep up with it. Thats when the other tubes go down. This does not happen everytime but when it does, the projector must be turned off and restarted again or no picture at all.
6. The blue static disharging quits as abruptly as it starts. Usually within 5-10 seconds. And after that everything is fine for the rest of the day unless the projector gets powered down again. If the projector is left sitting off for more then a half hour it is probable this problem comes back on start up. Or if it is left sitting 15 minutes the problem will come back but only for a couple of pops or so.
I should also note that with the new G2 card, blue G2 looked quite a bit higher and had to be turned down to look right again. A totally black screen saver was still blue until I turned it down. It is total speculation but I am thinking my spare card was probably set from another projector that had a more nomal blue crt.
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| jkruger wrote: | | Would it do this if the focus wires were disconnected? I have a #762120 board like that if you want to try it. |
Jon, not sure I understand what you mean. As far as I know, the red focus wire from the neck card (which was cut) is supposed to go to the G2 card. I spiced another piece of wire and hooked it up properly, but I also found out that it made no difference at all to the picture. (Picture looked exactly the same whether or not I unplugged the wire.)
But as far as the #R762120 smps board goes, not sure what you mean. Are you saying it has something to do with the focus of the crt?
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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I thought you had the focus wires disconnected from the tubes. Are you using Sony tubes?
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jkruger wrote: | | I thought you had the focus wires disconnected from the tubes. Are you using Sony tubes? |
I did have all 3 Sony but right now I have panasonic green and red but Sony blue.
The only difference is the pinout of the socket and also that Sony has a third grid (G3) which panasonic does not. All these years I had just left G3 unhooked on both my red and blue tubes but was able to get excellent focus anyway.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | RVonse wrote: | Yes, I tried tapping the neck but I did not knock it very hard because I was fearful of breaking the glass.
I was only aware of (1) G2 card but I will try that card again next time the projector has cooled down (projector is actually operating right now to type this post). I do know that I did swap out the G2 earlier but that was in pursuit of the first issue and I believe the projector was already warm. So I could not have been able to isolate whether it could have fixed or did not fix the blue startup issue.
I also do own a tube rejuvenator, however it is designed for obselete picture tubes and most likely not suitable for burning off a crt cathode. |
This is the G2 diagnostic board that I was referring to... http://www.curtpalme.com/Barco1208_Layout2.shtm
I would like to see you try swapping this board (if you have a spare) before messing with the tube any more. It would be odd for a tube to be consistently intermittent. Of course not impossible. It would just be better to confirm its not the board. |
Ok, this morning after I got up everything was cold so I replaced the G2 card. Unfortunately, did not help.
Here is what I always get on power up:
1. I hear the high voltage crackle (normal)
2. I start seeing the windows desktop (normal)
3. Then I start seeing what looks like abnormal high blue G2 an instant later. As though someone cranked the G2 all the way.
4. I start to get what sounds like static discharges that coincide with ultra bright blue raster flashes.
5. So much blue during each pop that sometimes high voltage can't keep up with it. Thats when the other tubes go down. This does not happen everytime but when it does, the projector must be turned off and restarted again or no picture at all.
6. The blue static disharging quits as abruptly as it starts. Usually within 5-10 seconds. And after that everything is fine for the rest of the day unless the projector gets powered down again. If the projector is left sitting off for more then a half hour it is probable this problem comes back on start up. Or if it is left sitting 15 minutes the problem will come back but only for a couple of pops or so.
I should also note that with the new G2 card, blue G2 looked quite a bit higher and had to be turned down to look right again. A totally black screen saver was still blue until I turned it down. It is total speculation but I am thinking my spare card was probably set from another projector that had a more nomal blue crt. |
I dont remember you saying before this that you have an arcing noise happening with the blue flicker. In this case then its more then likely the tube.
This is why all symptoms are helpful in a diagnosis......
When you first start it cold and its flickering and arcing, look at the base of the tube near where the neck board attaches. You will probably see the arcing inside there.
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Installed a new Pansonic blue tube (from an Ampro 4600) over the weekend and everything is smooth so far. I feel confident at this point that my old Sony 09 must have somehow blown out my first neck board. This Panasonic seems to be able to produce much better gray scale but focus about the same (Sony always had great focus).
Anyway what I find interesting is based on my experience the Panasonic tubes are far better for reliability than the Sonys. The only good thing I can say about a Sony tube is that the guns probably won't be reliable enough to wear out any of the phospor. I've never seen such poor quality.
So since I got no Sony tubes in my projector at this point I am feeling much happier now. All panasonic now.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Where did you get a 4600 tube? Your not hiding an Ampro there , are you? 
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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I bought P19LCP07HKA green and blue tubes from another crt enthusiast who recently junked out the rest of his 4600.
Actually the only Ampro I have ever owned was a 4200 which originally ran fine but I just couldn't stand the wired remote or the general setup. So I ended up installing those 9" tubes in my BG1208. Believe or not the 4200 originally had a Panasonic green but Sony red and blue which is how I first learned you could interchange sockets of either brand. Anyway at this point, if I need a tube for my Barco I prefer looking for Ampro tubes because my chassis is already setup for them and they belong to my lenses. Furthermore, I usually can find a more reasonable price for Ampro parts and I like that.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: | | junked out the rest of his 4600. |
JUNKED HIS 4600!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | RVonse, I wonder if the Thomas tubes i have with the 09MEX pin out would work in your Projector at all? Just curious, i have a bunch of used one i could send you one for testing just pay shipping.
Athanasios |
If I could get my hands on a 4600 chassis I be glad to try them out.....
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | RVonse, I wonder if the Thomas tubes i have with the 09MEX pin out would work in your Projector at all? Just curious, i have a bunch of used one i could send you one for testing just pay shipping.
Athanasios |
I would be highly surprised if your Thomas tubes would not work. As long as the filaments, cathode, G1, and G2 are hooked up on the neck board correctly you will be good to go where ever you put it. Thats only 5 socket wires to rework so really its pretty easy to find out.
But my first reaction to putting your 09MEX tube for my chassis is it would not have an Ampro LC assembly on it unfortunately. Otherwise I am confident it would work fine.
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Another update for those people who might be interested. The bad neck board turned out to be a small 10uf capacitor that opened up. Very hard to find because I was looking for something shorted out on IBCL line. Never figured on a part just wearing out, nor did I figure on an easy to get part that wasn't expensive. Anyway, this small capacitor apparently averages pulses on the IBCL line which turned out to be really important. Because without this capacitor, the whole projector including red and green was brought to its knees.
All I can speculate is that the sony tube failing on startup caused IBCL to be used more than normal. And that extra strain plus the high hours on this capacitor must have done it in.
In the final analysis, I had 2 problems with this projector. A bad sony blue tube and a failed 10uf cap on the neck board.
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Good to hear you find the problem.
It's probably not bad idea to replace all caps to high hour boxed neck boards. There is no cooling in those boxes and some caps are only rated for 85 deg.
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